Game Off
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2558
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 15:53
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Game Off
Posted By: HonoredMule
Subject: Game Off
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 19:10
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Hi all,
So, first off, the rumours - where are the rumours? Anyway, for the first time in 10 days (think about that) Harmless is actually, really ending hostilities. <pause for effect> We have not contacted any diplomatic liaisons brokering peace, and will not be doing so. We have no demands. All objectives involving Valar's current membership and/or leadership have been achieved. The old leadership and their worst aggressors are gone or at least punished, the new leadership is participating diplomatically, and we've bloodied Valar's nose over past offenses. Harmless offers peace in-game, and will simply not start any new operations. This does not mean Harmless' war machine is grinding to a halt entirely, however. Harmless still have one or two siege operations in progress, and they shall be allowed to reach natural conclusion, provided that conclusion is no later than October 10th (after which we will withdraw on our own). King Atreus has launched a siege on us, which we will break and likely return in kind. Note that we do not require that long-term Valar members refrain from participating in these battlefronts. You still have an opportunity to come together as an alliance and show some mettle, and doing so will not break the peace. Most importantly, we take particular offense at players who have joined Valar from other non-confederated alliances just to unload their entire arsenal on us then fled like cowards to neutral alliances. These players shall each lose a city regardless of who tries to harbor or protect them. Do so at your own risk. That said, most of Valar's members never even faced a real threat. A few of you saw some feints while most of you never responded or participated, nor were targeted in any way. Those of you who did not flee in terror at the first sign of adversity - or ragequit - I hope you at least enjoyed having the threat/opportunity to actually face a challenge. Most of our real targets couldn't make it this far without sticking a gun in their mouth. So, game off. HM ------------- "Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now." - HonoredMule |
Replies:
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 19:18
| Thanks for the update, HM. |
Posted By: nvp33
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 19:20
| Well played HM and H? Congratz on your win. |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 19:25
Pathetic little brown noser 
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The_Dude wrote:Posted By: Sovereign
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 20:33
As per usual, you add constructive feedback. We should all be so thankful that you truly contribute so much to the content of the forums. I know I for one feel lucky. Thank you oh great and mighty one! Hmm, was that a bit over the top? Ah well, I think the point is there none the less. ~SOV~ |
Posted By: Sister Nikki
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 23:27
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well spoken HM :) p.s. Celeb your voice may be active, but i see your account suspended :) |
Posted By: Daufer
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 01:29
Now you see why he was so successful as our diplomat in Havoc Unleashed?
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Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 02:03
Any chance you can shed some light on which of MoreBlue4U2's cities you'll be sieging? -------------  |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 06:33
| Whilst we have clearly had differences in opinion ( some seem to still be arguing over those both verbally and militarily), I congratulate H on their achievements. From the day I started playing this game, I took note that the top alliance had around 50 members, alliances 2 and 3 had around 150 members, it was clear even then that H were doing things more effectively than others, things have not changed since then clearly. All that has changed is my amount of knowledge ingame and my understanding of how H achieve their goals, some will claim it is dirty handed, others (judging by H's successful methods) meaning the majority, accept it as fair play. Again well done and lets look forward to the next however many months of peacetime until the factions are released and they take us all out. |
Posted By: Sgt..Shanks
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 08:22
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If anybody thinks they are taking a legendary city because a long term, peaceful player sent a few lousy troops to help an old friend out (who was also peaceful) ~They can think again!! |
Posted By: Sovereign
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 08:33
Just to clarify one of your points, the member cap for alliances is 100. ~Sov~ |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 10:31
| Correct, the 150 was between 2 alliances White and Black. |
Posted By: ugofirst
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 10:48
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congratulations to H? on their emphatic victory over Valar, a magnanimous gesture, if the war IS finished, would be for a line to be drawn under it so that all can now continue with the game peacefully revenge attacks can only serve to prolong unwanted hostilities - and could even extend them to include heretofore peaceful players the power of H? is evident, perhaps now is the time to show their forebearance too |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 11:59
| I think everyone sees the pattern now. |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 13:56
I can't believe you continue to defend a player who is clearly deserving of punishment. I don't care what you say RMY, you trying to protect Blue is no better than VALAR trying to protect Roller. He's going to lose one city and rightfully so and I don't see a tiny 500 pop city that took him a week to build being it. ------------- |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 14:41
I don't see how someone who helped out an old friend is 'deserving of punishment'. They are certainly less 'deserving of punishment' than those players who ganged upon peaceful players for the sin of being 'strategic assets of Valar'. If the war proved anything, it is that most players in the community are peaceful not because they are kindly by nature, but because they are afraid to take risks. When they got an opportunity to make attacks without fearing retaliation, they all came in packs to snatch something from Valar. For someone like me who always opposed the Valar leadership for being mildly offensive, this came as a shocking revelation. Curse and mCrow deserves some respect - they made their goals clear and stopped the offenses as soon as the enemy surrendered. Revenge attacks on people who helped Valar will extend the hostilities and weaken the morale of the community. Why is it so difficult to show some kindness when you have already won the war? |
Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 15:12
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Weaken the morale of the community? For pity's sake. This community must be a bunch of weak at the knees people. Geez, folks, was there a nuclear war here? Did entire alliances get wiped from the map? Did I miss some reports or were there only a couple of cities impacted by this? Barely anyone got blooded... and those that did, barely got hurt. Suck it up people. Grow a pair. Don't like what H? or Valar or whoever is doing... stop crying in your cheerios about it. Do something. Organize... get together and build a cohesive group to take them on. It can be done. The cowardice and rank timidness shown here is pathetic. |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 15:45
Well said Uther. That's the message. That's what we needs to do. Nice to to see you have still got it after all these years  Fine Pair of Shoulders Lovely Boy. Show em off! Show em off! 
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Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:15
So, let me get this straight. You guys siege a player, these guys attack the siege. Basically, they lose moving military pixels and you lose moving military pixels. So, since you maybe lost more moving military pixels you feel you are now justified in taking cities? How did you arrive at this conclusion? Wouldn't it be more honorable and more importantly fair to ask for compensation in lost resources used to generate moving military pixels? You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:20
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why shall people be ashamed if told to feel shame by a shameless person?
-------------  my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:21
Well good luck for you two with that. you don't need any courage to 'take on' someone, you need only brute force. but no amount of force can change one's opinion. For that you need to reason with the good side of people. I could be right or wrong in my convictions, but I hope for positive changes, not destruction. |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:26
He abandoned his alliance, joined VALAR, offloaded a ton of troops on someone, then ran away with his tail between his legs when he realized VALAR was a sinking ship and now is hiding in WE. That's just cowardly. If you're gonna stand up for a friend then do it, don't run away when you realize you've pissed someone off.
So let me get this straight, you just questioned people for getting worked up over losing pixels and now you're questioning people destroying some pixelated cities? Do you even re-read the things you post? ------------- |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:27
The emotion is dictated by the act(s) of the perpetrator(s) and not by the reputation of the messenger. |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:28
Do you have a sense of proportion?
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Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:52
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The way that some of the so called coalition members and also their higher ranking officers are behaving is clearly causing a great deal of anger within the community. Instead of looking at ways to usher in peace. Some of these people are deliberately hurling insults and attacks in effort to further humiliate the defeated and settle scores without justification. Having had the YES to commence war they do not want to stop and are looking for all sorts of excuses to attack people inside or outside of Valar. I think that it is clear to all sensible players that if ALL hostilities are not stopped within the next day or two this war is going to reignite. I feel that if that happens the blame will lie with the Victors for failing to be magnanimous in victory . You may have won the war with Valar but you have just created a whole series of new enemies some of whom were previously your friends. I fear you do not have much time. Because if this action does not stop peacefully then it will become clear to other alliances that SOME not All of the Coalition will have to be stopped militarily. I strongly urge leaders of OTHER alliances to apply more pressure on the Coalition for an immediate cessation BUT also to prepare your armies to intervene in the name of the Community in case ...well...the rogue elements do not listen. Lastly should the situation fail to be resolved now and the violence continue I hope that H? will maintain at least a dignified distance and not come to the aid of those hell bent on creating mayhem |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 18:00
And now suddenly pixels have value. How quickly your flawed argument falls apart... ------------- |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 18:22
Sigh... Let me help you get some perspective with one simple question. Do you spend money buying prestige building your moving military pixels?
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Posted By: nightfury
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 18:23
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Brids17: He abandoned his alliance, joined VALAR, offloaded a ton of troops on
someone, then ran away with his tail between his legs when he realized
VALAR was a sinking ship and now is hiding in WE. That's just cowardly.
If you're gonna stand up for a friend then do it, don't run away when
you realize you've pissed someone off. Completely agree with Brids there. Joining an alliance for a WAR is not an issue however running away in the middle is sad, pathetic. Staying there and facing consequence of a decision is much better. How can somebody expect that they can enter war, kill some troops and expect no attacks to come to him? As I understand VALAR has negotiated for peace and that agreement is only for current VALAR players. Those who took part in war and are not presently in VALAR should negotiate separate agreements. Use your diplomatic skills...U know u might get away without any attacks |
Posted By: nightfury
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 18:24
If one can buy some troops with prestige then I am sure that many will do that... |
Posted By: ugofirst
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 18:47
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whilst i cannot, and do not, condone the actions attributed to blue, i feel a duty to members of WE to try to negotiate a settlement which would appease all parties involved - the loss of a city for attempting to break a siege seems very harsh - especially as the stated goal of the war, the removal of azreil, has already been accomplished i made an offer to compensate any player who lost troops to blue with double their value. if the players who lost troops are amenable to this offer, or similar terms, then surely any further escalation can be avoided
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Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 19:18
And how exactly does that make everything better? That still equates to Blue doing whatever he wanted and then getting off with no consequences. I'm sorry but I don't think anyone but Blue himself should be paying for his mistakes. ------------- |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 19:33
Nightfury, before interjecting, could I request you read the debate at hand? You seem to be discussing a different topic regarding troop purchases and prestige?
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Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 19:36
Look, this dude Blue knew all the risks, however, H? made it quite clear they "wanted to have some fun" with this whole affair. This dude, jumps in to have some PvP fun and now loses. He bet on the wrong side. I don't think anyone is arguing that he also took advantage of the situation. But the cost that he is being asked to pay, in the form of a city that he may or may not have spent real game money on by buying prestige is TOO HIGH. It's ridiculous and makes H? look like a bunch of douches. Fun my ass.
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Posted By: ugofirst
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 19:42
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brids, were you one of the people that lost sieging troops to blue? if so what amount of reparation would you deem adequate? and are you empowered to negotiate for mcrows?
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Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 19:50
H?, you are doing it wrong. Thanks for the stellar example you are setting for the community. This is the kind of thing I am railing against. |
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:07
QFT Furthermore, this is not about the war itself, but how Blue personally acted. And he has been around since the Whitewash war. He should know as well as anyone that Harmless do not play tit-for-tat. We hit however hard we must to ensure our disapproval is felt with lasting effect. As such, we will never accept what even might be retribution paid by someone else on his behalf, nor will we settle for a slap on the wrist. We don't even bother with the little stuff. But this is no little thing to us. While Blue's city is being razed, he can ponder how he might have saved it by showing the fraction of commitment or loyalty necessary to remain in Valar after launching all his troops. Maybe then his "coming to the aid of a friend" wouldn't look so much like taking a cheap stab at Harmless under cover of a larger war. Our disapproval at Blue's apparently malevolent true motives--and more importantly his cowardice--shall be felt. ------------- "Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now." - HonoredMule |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:09
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in short, resistance is futile, your arguments are invalid.
------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: ugofirst
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:15
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thankyou for replying honored mule, but blue didnt launch any attacks at H? did he?
or was i misinformed? |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:20
Or, in summary, our fragile egos were bruised and since we are sick of kicking small children in real life we figured we could get our jollies off here. Thank you, for as long as H? is around, PvP at a high population level is essentially dead. Whoever has ingratiated themselves with you the most - wins. Also, is H? trying to pull some sort of good cop/bad cop routine? Sorry Kumo, threads like this one from HonoredMule make it VERY easy to confuse the reasons some people went to war.
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Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:31
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I'm really tired of this "but I spent prestige building that" argument. It is woefully invalid. If you spent prestige, you did so to support the developers and/or enjoy advantages/convenience/huge chronological shortcuts while playing the game. You got and enjoyed what you paid for and are in no way entitled to some sacred protection of how you used it just because you spent real money. We all spend real time, and we all chose how we spent our time (and money). Those of us who didn't spend prestige, spent that much more time. Everything we build in this game, we can lose. Those of us who are truly not prepared to face that loss have the option of playing an entirely peaceful game. We don't have to launch all our troops at a much larger foe and then cry wolf. Whining about the loss of investment after a failed gambit wreaks of nothing but the cowardice Harmless so violently abhors. If you're destitute and found the tiny cost of prestige overwhelming, it's your own damn fault for spending your money so unwisely. If you aren't, then stop making such a big deal out of it. I spent a lot of prestige on this game myself. I've now been on a much tighter budget for about 5 months now and can no longer (wisely) afford prestige myself. But come and raze my cities, and I can guarantee you one thing: you won't hear me bitching and whining about my lost prestige investment. I will simply rebuild--that is what people with strength of character do. So let me make this crystal clear: we don't care if you spent prestige. There are reasonable limits to what constitutes a reasonable response and though others may disagree with our assessment, we do measure our reactions carefully. Whether you spent prestige has no effect whatsoever on our decisions. ------------- "Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now." - HonoredMule |
Posted By: ugofirst
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:36
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There are reasonable limits to what constitutes a reasonable response i agree entirely H M but if blue didnt actually attack any Harmless players, doesn't that negate any need for a response from H?
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:39
so if someone else helps moreblue, would you go after them as well in a serial killing manner? the only intention i see behind this 'punishment' is a petty desire to silence and subjugate people.
after ambushing them with 7 alliances you still fancy yourselves as brave heroes?  |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:50
Garbage, you are trying to justify your disproportionate response. So quit with the straw man argument. The argument is about WORTH and COMPENSATION. It is also about the manner in which the victor conducts themselves. While I can't stop H? and their desire for bloodshed, between Killerpoodle's original post, Kumomoto's post and now yours, I see a LOT of hypocrisy. This is OUT of the realm of FUN and squarely in douchebag territory. So yeah, I disagree with your assessment wholeheartedly. You are demanding more than a pound of a flesh here.
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 20:57
^^ This I totally agree!
it does take courage to stand by the loosing side. he was only helping his friend who was a peaceful player under attack. you cannot blame him for going back to his alliance as you already proved with your 7 on 1 war that fairplay is not something you prefer.
People with strength of character do not seek petty revenge. revenge proves its own executioner.
Totally! you write well. you should read your own writes more often.  |
Posted By: nightfury
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 21:11
I am not off topic. what makes you think I haven't read previous posts. Point you are raising is all about the proportion of punishment and you are making a point that City is worth much more and several K's of lost troops are nothing because real money is used for building city, to show your flawed logic I gave statement that "If one can buy some troops with prestige then I am sure that many will do that..." To be clear let me tell you this, in this game creating big amount of troops is as hard as building city. take an example, human t2 cav(knight) takes 13.33 minutes, so to create 10k knights army it takes 92 days, One can build a city in 15 days(using prestige) but 10k knights...no sir...one has to wait 92 days for that. now go ahead and slaughter somebody's 10-20k knights and offer them double amount of resources needed to create knights, lets see if they accept that. On same logic if somebody razes your city and offers you double the resources that are needed to build that city again, that should be acceptable? |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 22:08
Not intending to offend, but it now seems clear English is not your first language. Sorry, I was not understanding what you were attempting to communicate. Whether people COULD use prestige and WOULD use prestige to build troops is irrelevant to the argument at hand. They CANNOT currently. With that out of the way. I would like to see your calculations a little better laid out and how you arrived at the 92 days. I don't buy it. Regardless, at the root of creating a knight is the city and research. The means to create the res needed to create the knight himself. Prestige is used to overcome the time limits of upwards of 4days on some buildings when making the increase from level 19 to level 20. The larger the city, the larger the cost. A knight or whatever military unit used, is a STATIC cost. It costs the same amount to build each one, no matter how many you queue. I don't care how you want to slice it, in terms of value, a CITY will always be more VALUABLE than the units and/or materials it produces. This should be pretty simple stuff. Prestige which often translates into real game money is being imposed as a punishment. Here is where this gets crazy to me. In a GAME, there is an element of players who banded together and now feel JUSTIFIED in determining levels of PUNISHMENT. This is CRAZY. When did this stop being a game with some fun and a simple, GG? |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 22:16
I don't recall Harmless? suddenly being in charge of any other alliance besides Harmless? They didn't ambush them, they declared war with them. What everyone else did is out of their control.
That's just it, he didn't go back to his alliance. He abandoned his alliance and is now hiding in World's End. ------------- |
Posted By: Sgt..Shanks
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 23:43
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I hope so Damage!! ; ) |
Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 23:52
When did you begin to feel JUSTIFIED in determining levels of PUNISHMENT? You're doing the same. This Blue cat sounds like he was an A #1 douchebag and doesn't want to be held in anyway accountable. He seems to have a bunch of sycophants that are trying their damndest to wheedle him out of having to stand up for his actions. Why is H? being held up as the bad guy when this guy was a complete rat?
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Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 00:24
The difference? I don't actually have the power to implement them. These guys do. I would expect the same amount of accountability if I was in the position myself. If this "Blue" cat is an A1 dbag for coming to the aid of his friends, I think I'd prefer him as a friend to the sociopaths in here calling for his blood. Best part of this whole debate? I don't know this "Blue" cat, and neither do you. |
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 00:40
If enough people disliked Harmless to destroy us, there would be lots of spoils, strutting, and opportunity for political advancement to spread around.  But siding against Blue doesn't even net a spot in a lynch mob.It's just mankind's baser attributes raising their reliable rumps, reaping where they have not sown and roaring to get their rocks off. It's not hard to see what they really care about is themselves and what they really want is sabotage and destruction wrought against whomever is perceived as being higher on the proverbial ladder. As for the "victim?" Well, it's easy to stand up for someone who's not in your way against someone who is. More like "convenient alignment of objectives" I'd call it. ------------- "Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now." - HonoredMule |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 00:59
What is becoming increasingly obvious is that you are unwilling to address the arguments raised against you, you continue with your straw man attempts and now move to Ad Hominem attacks. What's not hard to see here is that you don't really have a legitimate reason to proceed with your "retribution". I'd respect H? a whole lot more if your just said: "We're doing it because we can" Anyway, you know what's easier? To cower in fear before those who wield power and tacitly condone the actions of a bully for fear of reprisals. This is clearly not a "game" to you.
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 01:14
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StJude, I believe people are attacking Blue because he joined an alliance for a war, attacked siege camps, then sought to avoid consequences for his actions by leaving that alliance. You may not agree with it as a reason, but it is a reason. Not sure what the "game" remark came from ... can you clarify your reasoning?
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Posted By: Sgt..Shanks
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 01:33
| OMG.. This has turned into the "kiss arse" thread!!!! |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 02:02
The game remark comes from the fact, that Illy is a game. If we all got together and played monopoly, and I won, and you lost, I have two options. 1.) Win graciously 2.) Rub it in your face. In this game, I would prefer H? just admitted they are choosing option 2 and rubbing it in the face of the players who chose the losing side instead of coming up with "justifications" for their behaviour. In a game.....no "punishment" should ever be needed. Unless you are playing for all the wrong reasons. I would hope that while we have EXTREMELY opposing philosophies on how Illy should be played, that we could both agree that it is 1.) a game and 2.) supposed to be fun. I suppose that is the extent I take the sandbox too.
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Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 02:22
Replace 'punishment' with 'consequence' then if it makes you feel better. Attempting to argue 'attacking someone who attacked you' is not justified is, no matter your spin, ridiculous and a lost cause. But you keep bangin' your head there pal. Matters little to us. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 02:37
Replace attack with siege if it makes you feel....nevermind. Keep up the positive PR!
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Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 02:55
| You guys make me chuckle. |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 04:41
| SJ--Blue did attack H? Forces... Also, I'm a little sick of anti-h campaigns from the same folks who were screaming to the world that we were going to "exterminate" Valar... Can people please get some perspective &, even if you don't like H?, give H? Some credit for halting a war at some five or so cities razed? That's not even a drop in the Valar bucket! Super restraint showed! So... Good winners have demonstrated themselves thus, & I wish good (relatively unscathed) losers would do similarly... |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 04:53
Yes, he sent many attacks at H?, you and RMY have been told this several times in global, however, you continue to miss the point, his behavior and lack honor of in this the war have earned our attacks. He cannot buy his way out of this; you cannot buy his way out of it either. Now I have to question why you and RMY continue to question our attacks and insist on trying to protect MoreBlue, what are your motives? ------------- CEO, Harmless? Founder of Toothless? "Truth never dies." -HonoredMule |
Posted By: Sgt..Shanks
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 06:02
Why do you all call DEFENSE, attacking? Breaking a siege IS NOT an ATTACK! |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 06:33
Defense, attack, call it what you will. He still ran to WE the moment he realized he may see some retaliation. ------------- |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 06:42
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Oh, c'mon. Who the hell is defending a guy who is only going to lose a single city? Really?
My tolerance for war damage whinging on the Valar side is precisely now zero point zero. And the next whiny mofo deserves another city sieged. Most weddings do more damage to banquet halls than we did to Valar in this war... If there is another single whine from a Valar player then I'll be pissed!
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Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 06:48
+1 ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 06:49
I was trying to use relatively neutral language ... to say that he "defended" a siege camp would seem to be confusing and imply that he had reinforced the siege camp, which would be the opposite of what actually occurred. Whether losing a city is an appropriate consequence for an action taken in aid of a then-alliance mate is for wiser heads than mine to decide. I do see H? and other coalition members as having shown restraint in the prosecution of the war. I don't imagine it's possible for everyone to agree on "when" or "how much damage" is appropriate in these situations. What to one side may appear to be mercy may to another side seem to be harsh punishment. I do think it's amazing that we're able to have these discussions with relatively little resort to ad hominem arguments and name calling. I continue to be impressed by the Illy community of all opinions. Edited to add: Valar members ALSO demonstrated restraint, and to my knowledge did not target smaller members of coalition alliances, in spite of the temptation of being on a side that was losing badly. They deserve a great deal of credit for this. (There may be exceptions of which I am unaware, but I believe my general characterization is accurate.)
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Posted By: ugofirst
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 07:09
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my motives are as follows starry i would like an end to this 'war' i would like to see fair play, i like the 'eye for an eye' justice system and do not agree with persecution for the sake of it
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Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 07:30
Kumo could you please stop bringing me into this.Lol, sorry couldn't help it.
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 08:19
What about the question of continuing bad blood and revenge Kumo? I am not sure if all valar player knows what is happening now with moreblue or even that he joined and left their alliance. In the last week I haven't seen a single post from any valar player other than ChristinaZah. If you keep on holding that your side is right because you had reason to hurt them more, there is little point arguing with it. Once your revenge is consummated, you will feel inferior to your enemy. Why not let it go once for the sake of goodwill? |
Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 08:57
to break a siege, don't you have to attack it? |
Posted By: nightfury
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 09:17
Attack is best defence |
Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 09:34
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I will weigh in with information from a source I trust: According to her, MoreBlue4U had left Illyriad (roughly 4 or 5 months) and came back just to get in a few licks on specific H? players. MoreBlue4U's actions had nothing to do with defending a friend and everything to do with a drive by revenge shooting... |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 10:03
| Only one person knows the truth for sure. |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 10:42
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Indeed from where I was sitting it looked very much like MoreBlue unloaded their entire magazine against H? forces and then promptly fled into a neutral alliance. Whether you want to call that underhand or dishonorable or whatever (personally I don't call it either of those things) - but which ever way you look at it there's is no denying that H? would be well justified in taking a little revenge against Blue. |
Posted By: Sgt..Shanks
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 10:57
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Yes Anj, he WAS defending a friend.. but you are also correct in saying he returned to the game initially to target ONE of Harmless' members.. no clues needed to guess which! For sure take a little revenge, I would want the same in your shoes.. But a whole city is TOTALLY unreasonable. |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 12:29
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I guess another way of looking at it is like this: MoreBlue is 'apparently' a pretty much inactive player now - he is not contributing to the game particularly in that case - his only purpose will be to log in every few months in order to unload several tens of thousand cavalry against H? I wouldn't really expect any alliance to just ignore a player who's sole purpose is to damage said alliance when they get the opportunity. As an H? member I'd say just 1 city is infact VERY generous - when wiping out the entire account could easily be an option to a rather more militant set of players. Although of course, I am an H? member so I guess y'all think I'm bound to be biased, which I won't deny. |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 12:32
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[Although I will add one other thing on this toic before I shut my mouth hole again...] I do respect moreblue's achievement getting 10 cities... if it was solely my own decision to make I'd be tempted to wipeout the population in a few of his cities - but NOT raze them - so Blue would get to keep his 10 cities - just require some reconstruction. Having said that, this isn't my decision, so we'll see. |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 13:45
Who is this friend he was defending? I call BS on that excuse given that his attacks were spread out on several siege that had different player targets. Either you are digging in your heels to defend someone who hasn't told you the truth or you are creating drama where none exists. I will echo what others have posted, we didn't attack him, he attacked us at several sites, he unloaded everything on H? and is deserving of our attacks. If the roles had been reversed, MoreBlue (or other player) had unloaded their troops on your city or troops, you can bet the conversation here would have been entirely different and a call for help from the illyriad community would have very vocal. The difference is H? is taking care of this matter on their own. One city, given all the attacks, is generous on our part, we certainly are justified to take more. I'm done with this discussion as it is just another excuse by some to continue their own agenda and bash H? RMY your feelings about us have been obvious for a long time, fabricating drama and controversy where none exists fits the past pattern. Have fun wasting energy on another non-issue. ------------- CEO, Harmless? Founder of Toothless? "Truth never dies." -HonoredMule |
Posted By: ugofirst
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 13:47
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in response to creatures post this seems a wholly more reasonable solution, if the choice was mine i would agree to those terms
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Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 18:22
If you're going to complain about the given terms, why don't you come up with an alternative solution. Unless you are just trying to stir the pot and don't have a valid claim, complaining about something but doing nothing to try to set up a compromise does absolutely no good.
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Posted By: ugofirst
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 18:46
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i like the solution suggested by creature, tho i would suggest lowering the pop of the town to be sieged to 1,000 - that way it cannot be 'accidentally' razed
if the directors of H? are amenable to this suggestion please contact me so that details can be discussed |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 18:46
Hi there . From a perfectly unbiased and scientific point of view I would just like to reveal Anjire's H?ometer Lie Detector Results   |
Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 18:52
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 19:00
this puts things in a totally different perspective. so he was bored of the game and attacked someone he disliked? i feel stupid for thinking all this time that his noble intention was helping a friend. carry on!
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 19:16
I can't think of a situation in which Anjire has been untruthful. I CAN think of many situations in which Celebcalen has sought to malign or discredit people with rhetoric rather than fact. Hmmm ... whom to trust ...
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Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 19:56
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easy. anjire all the way. this cause i have an extreme prejudice against celeb ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 20:19
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The excuse Blue gave as to why his cities shouldn't be razed was because he was quitting Illyriad and that he was planning on fully giving away his account to a friend. Whether this has already happened and he is now someone else or if this was just some lame excuse as to why he couldn't face any consequences, I don't know. ------------- |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 20:46
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Personally I don't like it when new people 'inherit' old accounts in any game... I don't see why someone should get for free what the rest of us had to work hard for. |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 20:48
think it this way: the new player would't mind to lose some towns anyway. since starting whit 9 or 6 makes little difference if yer a freshman ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2011 at 00:31
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Actually MoreBlue gave me permission to HAVE one of his cities since he was going to be attacked anyway by others. The reason he gave me one of his cities is because when he stated to me he was leaving, I requested having one. He agreed. I have the mail to prove it :) |
Posted By: Gruntfuttock
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2011 at 00:20
Didn't know you could give cities away, or receive them for that matter. How do you? |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2011 at 00:39
no. in fact we tried to take it by force. and kudos to the Valar for keeping it. ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2011 at 21:44
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Uh.. no Kilo. That has nothing to do with city MoreBlue4U2 gave to me to capture since he was leaving. And for the record... if we desired to have actually taken that city by force, you know as well as I do.. it would have been done. We put restraints and conditions on the capture making it almost impossible to do so. However it WAS a good fight.. that I will agree with :)
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