Game On
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2458
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:19
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Game On
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Subject: Game On
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 06:23
|
Hi all, So, first off - The rumours are true. For the first time in 18 months (think about that) Harmless is actually, really mobilising. <pause for effect> I'm sure you guys are expecting me to do what everyone seems to do these days and post a big long bunch of words talking about how our opponents are terrible horrible people and describing in nauseating detail exactly where on the dolly the bad man touched us. I'm going to buck the trend here and keep things short: 1) We have a few reasons why we don't particularly like VALAR but I'm not going to debate them here. Suffice to say they are reasonable Casus Belli as far as we are concerned. Stuff like words and actions not matching up, general douche-baggery and their apparent trend for being super aggressive with everyone *except* us (FYI - their leaderships's facade of obsequiousness toward H? reminds me somewhat of the Bene Gesserit approach to Leto II in God Emperor of Dune - if you haven't read it, you should). 2) We don't see why everyone else should have all the fun of having wars while we have to sit on the side-lines because people *think* we are so big and scary that we can't even sneeze or use the bathroom without someone whining about how we're going to take over the game. 3) We (Harmless) are not looking to wipe any person or alliance out of the game. We have said (and we really mean it) that diversity in players and outlook are the best thing you can have in this and any other competitive game. FYI - I speak only for H?. Some of the other folks involved might have other ideas. 4) War is fun and exciting. If you're not having fun in battle in an online game then you're doing it wrong. Edit: 5) We like to help our friends. So, game on. KP ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Replies:
Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 07:12
| Could you lay out some very reasonable ground rules, I.e. no attacks on players under 5K total pop unless you yourself fall into that category? |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 07:21
|
I see. It's a bit bizarre that Harmless will attack Valar right after they have come out of battle with Curse over Spirit/Roller's cities? Actually it's downright opportunistic. It's seems that harmless also wants a piece of us; since we being the second most powerful alliance; their position of dominance in Illyriad would naturally be under threat by Valar. I can honestly see why they would want to attack us. As for the Valar being aggressive? Nope I don't think so... It's more like we are always under attack by someone. |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 07:32
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1) Thank heavens for one thing, at least. KP is being honest. H? are going to war because they "don't like" someone and "We don't see why everyone else should have all the fun". PA tried to pretend that they were on some righteous crusade - though with no real righteousness. H? Just come out with it and say, they're going to bash a bunch of people because they want to bash a bunch of people. 2) I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong. I argued on another thread that it was stupid to think that this was some sort of a conspiracy; I opined that this war had no cause other than misunderstanding. Looks like I was wrong. ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 07:44
| Kurdruk :P Told you so. |
Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 07:53
Dirk, I agree it would be nice to keep the newer players out of this, if they wish to stay clear. However, it is going to be hard for any Valar to trust Harmless? or their allies after the way things have turned out. And we have intelligence (which has proven 100% correct so far) that H? is having all of their members, of all sizes join in reinforcing the siege camps around our cities. So, I do not know how they will put that genie back in the bottle, if we adopt your rule. |
Erik Dirk wrote:Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 08:07
| Kurfist, perhaps conspiracy wasn't the right word. You don't get anywhere in life without planning and the top alliances certainly plan their developments. H to their credit have held their position for what seems forever and now they see it as time to remove the most obvious threat to that. This is a smart strategy that has been in the wings for some time, and probably inevitable, lets keep it civil and see how it pans out although if you add all the confeds up for each side I think the result is easy to see. H's political smarts have ensured that the odds are always with them. Now I expect a knock on the door from some people that won't be wanting to just have a beer so I better go find that pitchfork I saw in the shed a while ago I might be needing it. Alls fair in love 'n' war as they say, but I'm glad to be linked with the underdog because they are always the people's champ, good gaming folks. |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 08:12
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Errr... did I just get called Kurfist?! ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 08:54
Umm ... consider it a compliment?
|
Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 08:56
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I don't think small players joining in should have any impact on the rule, I just mean no attacks on their cities |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 09:30
That is a pretty stupid question really - if we are wasting our time/energies attacking your small members we are doing something wrong. But aside from this obvious tactical reason - H? has never picked on small people in the past and isn't about to start. I know VALAR has had problems in this area which I guess is why you feel the need to ask for a fixed agreement. |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 09:48
| Apologies swampy, don't know where that came from, proves that drinking is no good for me, now where the hell did I put that pitchfork. |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 10:03
Oh please, he was only asking a question, no need to hate on him. |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 10:21
No hating involved. H? never attacks small guys and Valar has a history of it... |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 10:43
Option 1: this is untrue. I've been in Valar for a few months, and am aware of 2 examples: one led to a weird diplomatic froth-storm (_duQ); one led to the perp leaving the alliance within 24 hours. That isn't a "history". Option 2: this is true. If so, please explain this history. It may be that there have been a string of attacks that I, and presumably many other Valar, are unaware of. I'm not judging it either way. Conceivably H?, Lorre, et all are a bit bored with the game and want an excuse to beat up a bunch of people. Equally conceivably, the Valar's leadership, or a faction within the Valar, have been doing things the rank-and-file are unaware of. Can you elaborate? ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 10:43
| I asked yesterday but nobody replied.What are strategic goals of this war that once achieved will result in end of war.What are coalitions terms of victory? |
Posted By: Gratch
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 10:49
King Atreus, When in Valar, thieved A member of DE , when confronted, he returned resources but then continued. Rinse and repeat a few times. All because it's not publicised or you are not told, doesn't make it not true.
|
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 11:07
| Isn't it interesting how the aggrieved start coming out of the woodwork when they have less to fear from the bullies (or are interested in setting the record straight)? |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 11:17
| Isn't it funny how mob justice starts in Illy? |
Posted By: Gratch
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 11:22
| I was just disproving your argument. Nothing more, Nothing less. |
Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 11:24
Edit: added quote above -------------
|
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 11:37
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There's no "mob justice" here squill. Read the OP to refresh yourself on what the reasons for involvement are. Once you accept that it is a war and that is it - two sides with a difference of opinion - you might actually enjoy the fighting. |
Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 11:40
| P.s. I don't think creature was exactly attacking me and I can certainly understand his response, assuming it was just another down with H? rant, we cleared the air via a PM. |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 12:13
| All good then :D |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 13:08
I'm a psychic! -------------  |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 13:31
its not said they are screwed. if you think velar is an easy prey, yer delusional. -------------  my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 14:04
If everyone that I think will get involved does, Valar will be outnumbered by nearly 10M pop. But yeah...that's not being screwed at all. ------------- |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 14:09
IF. and i wonder if Velar may do something about their Lousy confederations? there are still neutral alliances out there.... this is the right time to gather some alliances for their cause.. ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 14:23
| Yeah Kilotov, perhaps the Dlords can join Valar. |
Posted By: LauraChristine
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 14:25
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All of this talk of war has kept this song going around and around in my head for hours.. That is all :) ------------- Cake |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 14:41
not gonna happen i am afraid.  its not like our coexistence was always peachy and happy u know. ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 17:02
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Gratch: "King Atreus, When in Valar, thieved A member of DE , when confronted, he returned resources but then continued." Thanks. I didn't know that. Do you know if this is linked to King Atreus's departure from Valar? (I don't know if Atreus was kicked, or just left, and I don't know how the timings match up. So, curious.) SunStorm: "like the mob of valar sieges and attacks headed to one player (Lorre)" Do you mean Valar attacked Lorre before Lorre/PA declared war?! Holy cow - that's a massive revelation! Or do you mean that after Lorre declared war, the Valar decided to give him a slap? In which case I'm not sure what you're complaining about, exactly? ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 17:27
| Regardless, that "mob of valar sieges and attacks headed to one player (Lorre)" were 99.9% from one Valar player. And the Lorre town sieged, is one that he placed in the midst of that Valar player's cities a while back, apparently trying to goad Valar into attacking him then. Otherwise, how else can you explain him settling a town so far away from PA support, to be surrounded by players of an alliance he has always considered an enemy? |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 17:32
he wanst in valar when i placed that city there ^^ so get ur facts straight before trying to say something like that ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 17:54
Lorre once told me that he set up cities in different locations so that he could send caravans to newbies from the closest city. His 7 cities are in 7 different regions. Maybe he thought more about giving support than getting it. You may call that propaganda and blah blah. |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 18:15
well that was all of tannhauser 5or 6 cities can do that. was nice to see the colour play ^^ ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 18:19
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Yeah, not a mob Lorre is right only one player: FW: RE: RE: RE: ^^ |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 18:26
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and camelot will be mine first need my pop up to 75k again tho would be a waste razing it ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 18:31
Here he have it then. Harmless? - statistically the most powerful alliance in Illyriad have finally come out and declared war on Valar. HonoredMule's accompanying post though was very dissappointing. It contained: 1. a half apology for attacking while Valar are embroiled in the PA/CHAMP farce. Of course had it been the other way around Harmless and their many sycophants would be accusing Valar of a cowardly attack; 2. a complete inability to give any real evidence justifying a War between Harmless? and Valar other than vague references to slurs and insults. This must be difficult for those who always tried to claim the moral high ground because this declaration is devoid of any; 3. no real attempt to prove a cause Of course we all know that the cause of this war was AmrothAnguireal. He together with Lorre pathetically engineered a situation where he could make false accusations and attempt to gain kudos for himself in a sickening parody of honour by challenging Azreil to one on one combat. Here we have a situation where Harmeless? despite their numerical superiority have taken the advantage of the situation to attack Valar. Pathetic! To be honest I expected nothing less I am sure that their propaganda machine and sycophnats will go into overdrive to come up with all sorts of exaggerations and distractions to hide the truth, but the truth is there for all to see. "I would apologize for attacking while Valar's forces are otherwise occupied" A cowards action and a cowards empty apology. This war has the potential to to involve and affect every player in this game. Remember that it was AmrothAnguireal, Lorre and then Harmless? that caused it to be this way. I urge all neutral players not to sit on the side lines but to actively participate to end this war and I hope that you will choose the side that stands for independent players rather than those who indulge bragging, lies and propaganda. Fight for Valar! |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 18:50
Celeb - war is war, there's never a right time or place for it if the odds are against you. Just to add my personal input - many stay out of this to give the Valar a sporting chance in this, and your attempt to rally supporters could have the opposite effect, that people who did not feel inclined to pitch in as to not make the odds any more uneven, simply thinkto themselves "Screw it, Ill join in, if nothing else than to rob the loosing side blind of all their res - its a freeforall anyway." So please restrain yourselves from further warmongering - let the participants know where they stand in this, ------------- "FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP |
Posted By: BellusRex
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 19:38
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I really was going to let all these go by, really...but enough is enough and too much is nasty. The very same "voices" who always complain about Illyriad being policed, stopping attacks on smaller players, all the many things we know go on every day, now look for all kinds of justifications when the axe finally falls.They point out it is a war game, and mock those who try to apply ethical beliefs in the game play of combat. Basically, if the game mechanism allows an action, then its perfectly acceptable. Thieves, blights, seiges, are all part of the game, and should be seen as such. This is their right. And so it is...unless you exercise your game right and attack them for it. Then they moan from the roof tops... It is also the right of those players who find such actions dishonorable to believe such and act on those beliefs. The game mechanism allows this as well...it also follows that cries of GC propaganda fall short, because the simple truth is the majority of players don't share your views, attitudes, and how you act in chat reinforces that. Yes, people support those people they like, which means you have to be likeable. Trolls and agitators reap what they sow, and then cry about popularity contests when everything explodes in their face. Instead of endlessly whining about H?, or Curse, or whoever running things, why not just state the truth...YOU want to run things YOUR way, but the popularity contest of GC prevents this. But it's always the other guys fault... Can anyone who knows them honestly say they couldn't anticpate Lorre or Amroth's reactions to events and situations they feel unfair? They have publicly stated their positions, and stood by them. How many other "leaders" plainly state their goals and then act as they say? Lorre seeks out the opinion of any member on what he says or plans to do. He wants all to have a voice, and they do. Artorious and SunStorm are just as honorable. They play no games, PA is not mired in hidden agendas and cliques. If you don't like Lorre, Amroth, PA, Champs, that's cool! It's a game where war is one of the tools available. Apparently not liking someone is not a reason for war...do any of you read history? Where is the history of large countries always refraining from putting to the sword those whose offense is deemed too much to be suffered. Yes, not liking you is a perfect reason for war, according to your own posts spread through out the forum. I think small alliances need to be more thoughtful in their actions in GC and the forums, counting on being allowed to bark from their own yards is no longer a guarantee... It boils down to this...in a game, as in real life, wars are fought over everything from honor to whores. This is what all of you who bemoaned the Illy power structure wanted. So why not shut up now and fight. There really is no reason needed beyond the want or need for the action. This is war at its core. Will Illy keep its soul, or edge ever closer to the cliff of Evony, Tribal Wars, and the like? And how about starting an acct and sticking to it, rather than quitting and pouting when your actions catch up to you, then starting a new hidden acct while still trolling and expounding on every thread there is in the forum. If you lose a fight, start again, that's the game! ------------- "War is the father of all things..." |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 19:42
| Oh nice, must of taking you ages to right that. |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 19:45
A gold star for all the effort BellusRex - a member of PA - put into that. CLAP  CLAP
|
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 19:48
| He DOES deserve a gold star. He put you solidly in your place... |
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:01
|
To follow on for what Bellus has written, PA/Amroth/H? have all stayed true to their morals in Illyriad and have not once backed down from the way they play, sometimes people don't always agree with their views but at least they stand by them. However Az as leader of Valar has consistently changed his view on H? and on this war and the proceeded to tell us why PA and CHAMP are fighting this war and then why H? is fighting this war BUT THEN changing why they said H? PA and CHAMP were fighting this war. Valar are consistently inconsistent! ------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:07
| Keeps you on ur toes |
Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:08
| ANd his post was also biased and propaganda., |
Posted By: Manannan
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:13
So what are yours then? Adverts for the new Remington Lady Shave?  ------------- Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either! "Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude |
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:19
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Furthermore it is slightly biased. It was also actually factual. Everything i commented on is absolutely true. So i admit that it was slightly biased. However it was also truthful. ------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:38
I am really not sure what you are trying to say here although whatever it is, it seems to be a bit stuffy and patronising. If you look at K P' s head post at the top of this thread then you will see that he is advocating the position of Harmless? in this war and comes close to advocating War itself as a desirable and essential part of this game. You appear to have missed the point that he is essentially "warmongering" here. So I cannot how you can objectively critize me without condemning him ????? KP has advocated H?'s position in this and seems to imply that is all some sort of brilliantly conceived strategy. Well I beg to differ and have endeavoured to show, using HM's explanation the Declaration of War, how it is not strategy that motivated H? but opportunism. They are taking advantage of Valar's situation. HM half apologises for it. Lions use strategy to bring down a kill. Hyena's however use cowardly opportunism by seizing the moment that someones elses prey has been disabled or disadvantaged in some way before moving into the kill. So Tord please try be a bit more objective in future. |
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:54
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HM doesn't "half apologize" for anything, you're using something he said. Spinning it and then making it look like you are in the right and they are in the wrong AGAIN!
------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:54
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Celeb: For the last time - KP declared war - yes. He does not ask for everyone to join the fray and attack Valar - He may have allies already, but he does not call out everyone on the general forum! You want allies in this war, go ahead and find em - send them a message, but trying to stirr up an angry mob on the forum will just end up hitting you in the face. And wth does lions and hyenas have to do with anything???? Seriously are we all supposed to stand back in awe because you entered a skirmish after taking roller in? I don't really care enough to discuss semantics with you, Im just saying your current method of approach could very well end up backfiring. Try and grasp that instead of yelling bias! at anyone with more Illyriad experience than yourself. ------------- "FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP |
Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 20:57
|
Very well written BellusRex. And I would agree that it makes a
compelling argument, the kind you would hear in a courtroom by a defense
lawyer. However, you could turn your premise around 180 degrees
around, and make the same argument why H?, Lorre and AA are being just
as hypocritical as you are inferring that Valar is. You also support your argument with vague claims of misdeeds that apparently Valar has done. Attacks on smaller players? We have the duq incident. One player, who shortly after was expelled from the alliance, even after having a long history of loyalty to his companions. Granted it did not happen immediately, but we tried to give him opportunities to change his path. I would say that was much more fair, and just than the type of justice called for by the shrill voices on GC. And it is interesting how you claim "a majority of players do not hold" our views. Did you recently take an Illyriad wide poll that I somehow missed? The few times I take a look at GC, I almost always see the same two dozen players (to be generous) and several different newbies. And most of those same people show up here in the forums, along with a few others that do not participate in GC. I do not know what the total player count is in Illyriad, but as I write this, I see there are almost 1400 logged on. I know there are more, but it is hard to do a head count when you have people with more than one account, and accounts being sat for extended periods of time. So lets just say there are only the 1400 currently logged on. And lets be real generous and say that there are 50 people in GC all the time (and on these forums), that support the way you think. I think that is very arrogant for you to suggest those 50 people represent the majority of players in Illyriad. I would contend, that a majority of players, cannot stand the way GC behaves, and avoids it. Otherwise there would be a much larger presence of people that we would see talking when we logon to GC. So, perhaps it would be much safer to make the assumption that a majority of the 1400 players do NOT agree with what the consensus is on GC. I mean, as long as we are making assumptions, I think that is the more logical choice. Now I really hope you are not comparing our actions in protecting roller/Spirit as picking on Curse. Our two alliances are almost equal in size. They manage to raze 4 of his cities (with help). And we did not attack Curse cities. Outside of roller/Spirit, we did not even send spells or diplomat attacks on their cities, that I am aware of. If that happened, it was someone that did not receive the order to leave them alone. And r/S had justification to strike back, as he was the one targeted. Others may claim that what we did to Champs when they were destroying a much smaller alliances cities was unjust. In that regard, it seemed we were following what those in GC preach, in helping to protect a smaller player. We agree that StJude started the fight, at least with words. But AA is the one that decided to start the war. And we stood by as AA and his allies beat on KT for a while. As StJude will admit, he probably deserved it. But when KT sued for peace, and AA kept attacking, we did the same thing that those that GC favors in the past have accepted as fair and just. The problem that the GC crowd has, is 1) Valar actually was the one that broke up the fight and 2) one of the GC favorites AA was the one that got his nose bloodied, just a little bit. IF the two parties roles had been reversed, everyone in GC would have been overjoyed. You will note, that Valar did not attack Champ towns in anyway. Before the war that started 2 days ago when P A and Champs declared war on us, name the times Valar has attempted to raze another active player's cities out of the game? Yet there are many examples of those that hold the favor of GC that do just that. I guess it is very much like real life, that those that control the media, attempt to control the truth. The thing is, those of you on GC who wish to claim you play with a higher sense of justice and honor than those of us you vilify, need to hold yourselves to a higher standard. You cannot claim that Valar or our friends are doing something wrong, and then do the exact same thing or worse, and still retain your halos. Valar members and other players that do not spend a majority of our time on GC do not going around telling other people how to play the game, except when the same people try to play God and dictate to us what is right or wrong. When we ask that you behave in the way you claim we should behave, it is not us that are the hypocrites. How can you expect anyone to follow these instigators' sense of honor and justice, when they ignore it when it suits their desires? So those of you that want to play this like a military version of SIMS, or some other social game, that is your right. But when you try to force everyone else to play your style, by trying to impose "GC Rules", you have a vocal minority of players, trying to tell a normally silent majority of players what to do. And I am sorry, but I do not pay my prestige fees to you, or anyone else that frequents the social part of the game. When the GM's and developers put a rule down in writing, than I will be sure to comply. But perhaps the reason they have not put your rules into effect, is because they do not agree. I am sure many parts of this will be taken out of context to try to make points against what I have said. So be it, the only people that will be fooled by that, are the same people that believe what our detractors say already. (edited for grammar) |
Posted By: Manannan
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 21:03
Celeb if KP is warmongering what the hell is this? An advert for Rowntree Fruit Pastels? Pot calling the kettle black! ------------- Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either! "Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude |
Posted By: Sovereign
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 21:27
I wish to avoid the rest of the rhetoric but I do want to clarify at least one point, which obviously you are simply unaware of. But Valar did indeed use diplomats on Curse cities. And here comes the good part, Pshark attacked the city of a much smaller Curse player Abgerstreift during this. However, like a good man, he took it in stride and said nothing in the global community. Bravo to him. Sorry, but I felt the need to address the inaccuracy. ------------- ~~Sovereign~~ "Dreams are the inspiration for the creation of man-made miracles" |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 21:41
|
mmhhe.. ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 21:47
|
I will not dispute that happened. Its the first I heard about it. However, that was against our orders. And, I am sure anyone in a large organization, (inside or outside the game) knows it is hard to get the message out accurately to everyone, despite best efforts to do so. In this game, we are for the most part restricted to IGMs to contact each other. So it is likely the message got missed in large number of incoming messages. It does not excuse the action, and if Abgerstreift wishes for compensation, I will do so myself. That is...if Curse has finally decided to let roller/Spirit live, and will allow him to move his cities as soon as the game allows him to do so. If not, I will hold compensation until after I am sure Curse and Valar are no longer at odds. That is, if H? does not raze my cities out of the game before that happens. I want to add, that even though we have had war declared on us by at least 3 alliances (last I noticed), we have agreed to leave cities of smaller members of these alliances alone, as long as they are not helping their leaders attack us. I do not know what else we can do in that regard. |
Posted By: Sovereign
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 21:50
I completely understand. I also appreciate the offer but I cannot speak in regards to compensation or in regards to Roller/Spirit. Just merely clarifying. ------------- ~~Sovereign~~ "Dreams are the inspiration for the creation of man-made miracles" |
Posted By: Tanis
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 21:53
|
To clarify , we didnt recieve any help with the cities we razed. That is false info. |
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 21:58
Just for clarification - and really not wishing the dev team to be drawn into Illy player or alliance politics - we neither agree nor disagree. Illyriad is, by design, a sandbox game. This means that it is what the players themselves choose to make of it, without any prescription of playstyle from us beyond some simple rules (such as the automatic "new player protection"). Regards, SC
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Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 22:19
Then to be 100% accurate, I will state that only Curse attacked roller/Spirit's cities. Except the one that Rainstorm razed, which drew Valar troops in that direction to try to defend. HOWEVER, Dlord armies were used to reinforce the camps around Spirit's cities, and we had to treat them as just as viable a threat as Curse armies. That made it more difficult for us to defend our member's cities. So...you did receive help. And my information was not false, just not fully detailed. I do not know if Curse asked for Dlord's help or not. I am willing to believe that they may have acted for reasons of their own, or by another one of their confederate's request. The fact is, their armies were there, and Curse benefited from it. |
Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 22:21
Thanks for clarifying SC. It was not my intention to draw you, or any others of the dev team into this. Only making the point, that people are allowed to play the game as they wish, if it is not forbidden by the official rules. |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 22:39
|
Let me sum up... It appears to me that this war is rooted in an inherent conflict of playstyles within the sandbox that is Illyriad. Some players come into Illy looking to beat up on anyone smaller than them. This is a dominate playstyle in many other MMOs. And in the early days of Illy, this was probably the dominate playstyle here. A group of players decided about a year ago that such a playstyle, if allowed to dominate Illy, would render the complexity of Illy meaningless. It would also mean that Illy would not be a sandbox, it would just be another Zerg MMO. In short, the 2 fundamentally opposed groups can be called "Sandboxers" and "Zergers." Lorre and Amroth are just 2 of the many players that are Sandboxers. However, both of them are very vocal on GC and thus draw the attention of the Zergers. Over time, the Zergers have grown and become more brazen. This war is brought by the Sandboxers against the Zergers to preserve the sandbox nature of Illy. The Zergers have brought this on themselves by refusing to limit their attacks among players and alliances that have the same playstyle. As StJude told me on GC, that's just not fun to them to fight agreed battles. So they attack players that are not interested in Zerging. Well, when a Zerger imposes a battle on a player trying to do other things in the sandbox, then the Sandboxer is being deprived of his right to enjoy his playstyle. Folks have been asking about Victory Conditions for this war. Here's what I have gleaned... H? has no specific Victory Conditions, they will decide as the war progresses when they have made their point. The OP in this thread clearly says that H? does not intend player or alliance destruction ... so that is not the starting point for victory in H?'s eyes. If I'm on target regarding this being a conflict of Sandboxers vs. Zergers, then it would make sense that the final resolution will be the Zergers realizing that attacking other players for the fun of it is NOT a playstyle that a strong group of players will abide.
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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 22:53
| Imo, you are spot on, TD... (as usual) |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:00
|
Once a kid poured sand down my boxers while I was making a pretty sand castle with my red bucket and green plastic spade, he even stomped on my castle... On that day I swore to dedicate my life the protection of innocent plastic-castleers and swore I would bring to justice all bullies in sandy environments contained within boxes. They call me... "SANDY_PANTS_MAN!" |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:02
| LOL, Sandy. |
Posted By: Sovereign
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:04
ROFLMAO ------------- ~~Sovereign~~ "Dreams are the inspiration for the creation of man-made miracles" |
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:09
From our perspective, that's absolutely spot on, Dakota. And when - played within the rules - different playstyles create friction... then that's the nature of a sandbox, and is very much by design. SC
|
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:13
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: scottfitz
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:15
|
A perfect assessment TD. I could not agree more ! (sandboxer here by the way, and not in the sense that Createure suggests) |
Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:24
|
TD, I guess I was mistaken. I thought you were unbiased in this. But it seems clear you have chosen sides. I take offense that you have lumped myself and my compatriots in your group of Zergers. That is part of the propaganda that the GC crowd is trying to paint Valar with. We do not go around picking fights with our neighbors, of any size. The isolated incidents of that you can find regarding Valar members being involved in such behavior I would argue is much smaller than the amount you will find in your group of Sandboxers. Yet, some of your Sandboxers try to be both. They put up a very vocal front on GC and the forums, claiming how pure they are, and how they want to protect the little guy. But then they use that excuse to pick winners and losers in disagreements, and be the bully policeman. Thus they get to satsify their inner "Zerger", while maintaining their saint act. I think the reason that Valar catches so much flak from you Sandboxers, is that we call you on your hypocrisy and do not kowtow to your demands to play the game exactly as you desire us to. And I find it hilarious how H? is made to look like one of these heroes that are protecting the little guys. About 5 or 6 months ago, when I was just starting my 5th town, I had an H? elder blight my city several times in the space of two days. I did the research to prove who was the one attacking me, and with about 99% certainty, I found that it was a player in H? that is currently more than 4 times my size. I am guessing back then, he was about 8 times my side. I documented the method I used to determine who it was in another thread. But when I called him on it, I got no reply. Except the spell attacks suddenly stopped. I do not feel the need to bring names into this, I believe the H? leaders know who this is. My point is, H? members have done things just as bad or worse than anything Valar members are accused of. Yet somehow, because they associate with the right people, they do not receive the same negative press that their enemies do. Go figure. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:29
Dakota precisely what planet are you on? ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: scottfitz
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:38
| I have seen H? get heaps of negative press, constantly , with little or no justification, "they are big therefore they must be bad" Rubbish! H? has had a large part in contributing to the way this game community is right now and I like the way the game community is! |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:43
1. I have read more words from VALAR members than any other alliance in the last 48 hours... to me that is a 'vocal front' 2. We never claimed to be pure. We never claimed to be just. KP put the simple explanation for our war declaration in the OP and we have not tried to rub this in people's face. We prefer to leave the community to make up their own mind instead of launching an exhausting spin campaign to try and get people to join our side. 3. Precisely what is bad about wanting to protect 'little guys' (new players) anyways? It is good for the game and the community - it brings more people into the game which means more money for the devs which means faster/better development that everyone benefits from. |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 23:48
|
If I recall correctly there are several threads in the forum over 20 pages long asking leading questions like: "What to do about H?" and "Lets all gang up on H?" etc... Post war critisism and grievance after White dissisipated. I have to agree with Scottfitz that considering how invisible H? are outside of tournaments in general, you would never guess that they were by a good stretch the largest alliance in Illyriad. ------------- "FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP |
Posted By: threefoothree
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:00
+1
|
Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:04
This is what I mean about taking someone out of context to prove a point. The quote you are disputing me on, is in regards to to a certain few vocal attention-getters that frequent GC. It was my understanding that H? generally did not fit that category. If I am mistaken, then you can be lumped in with the Sandbaggers, err Boxershorts...or whatever they are called. I did not refer to H? until the latter half of that post. And regarding protecting the little guys, Valar players do it all the time, but do not feel the need to make a big fuss about it and wave our own banner for doing it. And the one public example of helping the little guy, got us nothing but grief, because the big bully was one of the GC divas. And Llyorn, apparently I am on H?'s planet, and you all want me and my friends to get off. Since it seems that whatever you guys say is law. |
Posted By: LadyDa
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:22
I was with you up until the fourth paragraph. By segregating and labeling the different play-styles, the implication is that there is a "right" way (Sandboxers) and a "wrong" way (Zergers) to immerse yourself in a sandbox environment. I fervently disagree with that, and I hope others do as well, since the beauty of the sandbox is that it is a fluid and dynamic world shaped by the population. The will of the people determines the sandbox, and it is in the opposition of wills where the sandbox shines. Without clashing play-styles, we would all be actors in a movie where nothing happens. Ignoring all the noise, the who-did-what-to-whom, and all the rhetoric, we should all be pretty happy that something pretty interesting has been birthed in this sandbox. I say thumbs up to that. DISCLAIMER : I do not know, support, nor oppose any of the involved parties.
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Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:26
The past few threads have been dedicated to Valars worst seen operations, I recall a few operations when I was a part of Valar that benefited the community, no one talks of such, you all only want to go on a crusade to kill them off. You may feel like your cause is just, but as Valar has irritated many of you, those who grab their weapons irritate them and everyone else you have executed in the name of Illyriad, There will come a time when all you have persecuted and killed off rise up again and put you in your place. Enjoy your reign while you can. ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:33
wishful thinking i fear. this war will make sure that the ally that was rising to the level of H? will be put down. as TD said, its the winner that write history. i like to speculate how the world would look like if the maya-inca people would had killed off the Spanish invaders or if the Native American would had built a great nation sadly they where exterminated. ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:36
Duq: No diplomacy Lorre: No diplomacy Roller/Spirit: No diplomacy Joining KT to quash champ: No diplomacy All alot of fun till you're not the big guy anymore eh? War with Harmless: No diplomacy Harmless: trend followers. *cheesy grin* ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:38
Hi Tord It's me again.  Uhmmm It's such an honor to be debating with a vet such as yourself who has been playing this wonderful game for so long. I am so impressed by the unconditional love, loyalty and support that you are showing Harmless? in this thread. I have just one little problem with your premise concerning all these 20 post threads "Lets gang up on H?" My impression is that those few threads are far outweighed by the sheer weight of 40 posts threads under various titles aimed at the Order of the Valar. These threads are usually headed up by PA, Lorre or Sunstorm and filled with all sorts of exaggerations and guff. Funnily enough some of the "invisible H? leadership feature in these threads quite often. Players like Kumo, HM, Creat, Llyron etc etc.... Invisble hard done by Harmeless? Give us a break Tord. You must try and be objective. You only have use the search function in this forum to find 100's of posts full of propaganda against Valar! Please don't raze my town just because I have an opinion Celebcalen 
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Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:38
Settle pettle. Lets not get too carried away now. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:40
You're your own worst publicist. Dont do bad things and bad threads wont follow. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:47
Typical Llyron of Jaensch . You don't know any different do you mate. Stop trying to think Lawn you'll give yourself a headache. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 00:49
Awww. Resorting to insults already? My, your argument must be strong.  ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 01:00
|
Continuing to talk won't do anything, go fight some armies Celeb and friends, instead of fighting meaningless battles on the forums.
------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 01:17
| I deleted this post because I feel that it derailed this thread from its intended focus on the war. Also, Kurfie felt it was insulting. Kurf, I care about you and don't think badly of you, even though we sometimes disagree. Sorry that you were hurt by what I wrote. |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 01:26
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I can't wait until T? is torn down brick by brick, until then... Good luck Valar, go kick some ass. ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 01:28
just wait till ur new name comes out and the one after that and after that and after that and after that when excactly do you turn 18? ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 01:33
Although I am no longer in T?, I will stand against anyone who tries to harm them with the last drop of blood in my pathetic armies.
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Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 01:34
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Why? If your basing it upon immaturity, then you have a wrong idea. I hold grudges, I personally hate about twenty people in real life and would probably throw a party if something unfortunate happened to them. I'm sure you all can formulate your own idea about my persona and spurn a few insults with it, but I really don't care anymore, I stopped caring last fall, around the end of September. If any of you have a decent memory this was the fall of Ravager and TheBlackMofia. This is a thread about the war however, but if you want to make a comment feel free :p It's a pity I can't be fighting alongside Valar tearing down your cities Lorre, but theres always the future ;) ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 01:36
immaturety proven ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 01:51
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Whatever. At least I don't pretend to have created a online paradise while waiting to eliminate anyone who threatens your rule. I'd rather have a severe bipolar personality, and be eliminated account through account then follow a Fascist pig like yourself. ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 02:05
don't even know where to start on this one the insult of the paradise part? you choose ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 02:11
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hail hitler! no wait.... Comrade Lenien, tovarish! no not yet... ...BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR... aarrrghh...this aint going no where... mhe... this conversation killed something in me. ------------- my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: Moonlightwalker
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 02:14
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Seriously? How many rules of use were broken? Let me count the ways... no, let me just quote the rules: ILLYRIAD GAME & FORUM RULES In addition to the Terms & Conditions of service, the following game and forum rules apply. NAMING, PLAYER CONTENT & USER BEHAVIOUR 1. Your character, commander, army and city names must be non-abusive and non-l33tspeak. 2. All player content (player profile, alliance profile, ingame and forum messages etc) must also adhere to this rule. 3. Abusive behaviour towards other players is strictly prohibited. Just sayin'
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Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 02:18
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Guys/Gals, if the topic is about something that is entirely off the subject, please take it somewhere else. Sounds like some of this belongs in Bitter Sea. Granted, its hard not to get sidetracked once in a while, but lets not get carried away. Thanks |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 02:20
+1 ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 02:28
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I would advise people to look up what the word fascist truly means, its no more then a political party as a republican nor democrat. As for a pig, I adore pigs, they are truly intelligent animals. So lorre in short You are a player that loves to hold power in your hands, your intelligent though personally i believe it is wasted. ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |