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Advance Notice: New Buildings

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Category: News & Announcements
Forum Name: News & Announcements
Forum Description: Changes, patch release dates, server launch dates, downtime notifications etc.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2401
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 03:16
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Topic: Advance Notice: New Buildings

Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Subject: Advance Notice: New Buildings
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:04

TIER II BUILDINGS

This post contains information on some of the new T2 buildings.

17 of the 20 new buildings have now been released.

Unlike regular Illyriad buildings, many of these will require ongoing upkeep in terms of basic resources in addition to Food: Wood, Clay, Iron and Stone will also be required to run most of them.

These buildings are, of course, entirely optional builds and you can choose to build them if you wish to specialise your city in a particular area. Some of the buildings only make sense to build when your city is beyond a certain size. Other buildings are aimed at new players as well, in the full expectation that they won't be required or needed beyond a certain city size.

No new city plots are going to be added to the town map. 25 plots is what you have, and 25 buildings are what you can build - you now have to choose your path on this.

Whilst all 16 released buildings have numbers on them, the remaining 4 don't yet, but will once released. We have indicated a rough upkeep value (High, Medium, Low etc) for each building resource upkeep type. Upkeep will scale with the level of the building, and you should anticipate that - at level 20 - "High" means in the thousands per hour, and "Low" in the hundreds per hour.

There will be a *lot* more buildings released in the future, catering towards crafting, guilds, magic and naval administration, so this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Hope you enjoy!

ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDINGS

ARCHITECTS' OFFICE

Buildings have fundamental requirements: not only do they need to be aesthetically pleasing, they also have to stand the test of structural integrity and come in on budget.

A good architect can plan and design a building so that its actual construction is quicker, and the Architect's Office will speed the construction time of all your buildings and their upgrades.

Any construction time increase only affects new building orders, not existing ones.

Speeds up building construction time by 1.5% per level

No upkeep

CHANCERY OF ESTATES

Managing a large landholding estate can be a complex task.

The Chancery of Estates helps administer your Sovereignty, keeping a registry of low-level claims and streamlining the process for your vassals. Any ruler who wishes to lay claim to a lot of land around their city would be wise to make this building a priority.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

2% discount to L1 Sovereignty claim cost only, per building level

High Clay
Medium Stone
Low Wood

DIPLOMACY

FOREIGN OFFICE

Spotting incoming diplomats is a tricky task, requiring your citizenry and landholdings to not only identify but also report foreigners crossing your borders.

The Foreign Office provides support and infrastructure to enable your city to identify and track foreign diplomats more efficiently.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

10% per level increase in diplomatic unit visibility from this town

High Stone
Medium Iron
Low Clay

ASSASSINS ABODE

After a hard night of murdering, even assassins need somewhere to kip.

The Assassins' Abode provides a safe refuge for your evil-doing well-wishers to recharge and refresh themselves before their next operation.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Assassin units

High Iron
Medium Stone

SABOTEURS SANCTUARY

Undermining foundations, stealing research and burning things down seems like it should be an easy task. Far from it!

This building allows your Saboteurs to rest and recuperate their destructive energies.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Saboteur units

High Wood
Medium Clay

SCOUTS LOOKOUT

Scouts spend an awful lot of time away from home, and not having to maintain their own dwellings, knowing that them and their families are being look after well in your city, means that they're willing to forego some of their pay whilst they're abroad.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Scout units

High Clay
Medium Wood

SPIES HIDEOUT

Spies need to blend into their surroundings seamlessly. Having a refuge where they can hone the art of disguise and misdirection at the city's expense is a godsend.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Spy units

Medium Clay
Medium Stone
Low Wood

THIEVES DEN

Thieves have to continuously practice their arts, be they breaking and entering, moving quietly, removing items unnoticed or making a swift getaway.

This building helps your thieves perfect all these skills, and means they don't have to spend their own time and money on practice.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Thief units

Medium Iron
Medium Wood
Low Clay

MAGIC

GEOMANCERS RETREAT

Geomancers spend a huge amount of their time communing and becoming at one with nature and the natural spirits that bind the land together.

The mental energies consumed by this process are greatly replenished by this purpose-built retreat.

The bonus this building provides is applied to the new spell's default. So a spell providing a +8% bonus to your resource production, cast with a single Level 20 Geomancers Retreat (+5% x 20 = +100%) would be cast with a total bonus of +16% bonus to resource production.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

Increases Geomancy spell bonus by 5% per level

High Clay
Medium Stone
Low Wood
Low Mana

MANSION OF MISFORTUNE

Blight-casting is dark and dangerous path for any individual to undertake. By banding together and sharing the burdens placed upon them, this building allows blight casters to be even more effective at their dark art than they normally would be.

Increases Blights effectiveness by x% per level

High Clay
Medium Wood
Low Mana

MANA PROJECTOR

For anyone seeking to create a specialisation out of magic, the Mana Projector is a "must-have".

The range of spells is severely limited, but this building provides a local focus for your Mages to project their influence over a greatly increased range.

Spell Range increase

Low Wood
Low Clay
Low Iron
Low Stone

RUNEMASTERS GROUNDING

This building acts as a research centre and testing ground for your expert Runemasters to perfect their skills in Runeweaving, by providing a safe and comfortable environment for them to tinker with the intricate patterns and materials used in Rune construction.

The increase in charges provided by the additional preparation of your Runemasters is only applied to newly cast Runes, not existing Runes.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

Increases number of rune charges by 5% per level

High Stone
Medium Clay
Low Mana

MILITARY

TRAINING

MILITARY ACADEMY

Description to come...

x% per level Commander XP earnt increase

Medium Wood
Medium Clay
Medium Iron
Medium Stone

ARCTIC WARFARE COLLEGE

The Arctic Warfare College trains your armies to both survive as well as fight within the freezing and unique conditions of the North. When fighting in these conditions, specialist training as well as equipment, can mean the difference between life and death.

The Arctic Warfare College increases both the attack and defense abilities of all military troops produced by this town when fighting in this major biome by 1% per level of the building.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1% per level atk and def bonus to troops fighting in Arctic biome

High Stone
Medium Iron

DESERT WARFARE COLLEGE

Fighting effectively in the desert requires a unique training regimen. Extremes of heat and cold in the hostile environment can be rendered less debilitating by training your troops in a Desert Warfare College that will familiarise them with survival techniques for this harsh environment.

The Desert Warfare College increases both the attack and defense abilities of all military troops produced by this town when fighting in this major biome by 1% per level of the building.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1% per level atk and def bonus to troops fighting in Desert biome

High Clay
Medium Stone

JUNGLE WARFARE COLLEGE

Graduates of the Jungle Warfare College know the terrible heat and humidity of the jungle, where the hostile environment has but one purpose - to kill and subsume living flesh into the biological whole. Fighting in this extreme is hard, very hard, but luckily this College will help prepare your troops for the physical and psychological duresses.

The Jungle Warfare College increases both the attack and defense abilities of all military troops produced by this town when fighting in this major biome by 1% per level of the building.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1% per level atk and def bonus to troops fighting in Jungle biome

High Wood
Medium Clay

LODGING

ARCHERS' FIELD

Archers need to reach a peak of mental and physical perfection where they are 'at one' with the target.

This is incredibly hard to achieve when they're quartered with the general melee of the army, and so the Archers' Field provides them a place both to practice and also live without worrying about the world outside.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Ranged units

High Wood
Medium Iron

CAVALRY PARADE GROUND

Cavalry see themselves as the elite, the standard-bearers, of the military.

The Cavalry Parade Ground provides them with their own place to practice handling and dressage skills, as well as a place - funded by your town - to live, eat and sleep.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Cavalry units

High Clay
Medium Wood

INFANTRY QUARTERS

Infantry are the backbone of the army. Cameraderie, as well as skills, are honed to a sharp point when they're living and practicing together in the Infantry Quarters building.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Infantry units

High Stone
Medium Iron

SPEARMENS' BILLETS

Spearmen know they're the most expendable part of a fighting force, and they're determined not to be expended.

The Spearmens' Billets allows them to practice their deadly craft, as well as allowing your city to take care of some of their day-to-day needs.

You may build this building multiple times; however, each subsequent building costs the same but performs half as effectively as before (2nd building = half, 3rd building = quarter).

1.5% per level upkeep reduction for Spear units

High Clay
Medium Iron

Replies:

Posted By: shadow
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:07

Thank You!!!!

Posted By: Haizea Zurine Wolfe
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:09

Thank you ^.^

-------------
Haizea ��r�ne Wolf�

Eldest of the Seven Sisters
Heir to the Clan of Wolf�

White Wind of the Wolf�

Posted By: Hugie
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:09

Looks exciting but will certainly have to think about what I specialise in before building anything new. When is the switchover date?

Posted By: Mr Andersson
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:11

Yeay!

-------------
MrA

Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:12

mmmmmmmmmmmm parade ground mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

great job devs, cant wait

Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:13

I see that there are buildings to make the casting of blights, even easier. Yet nothing is mentioned that would give a player a defense against these spells. Where is the balance?

Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:19

Good job. Me likes. ^^

But you made 1 mistake....

It should be called "Assassins' Asylum"

Big smile

Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:23

Does the Chancery of Estates' bonus apply to the first level's cost on level II+ sovereignty claims, or only claims capped at level I?

I'm happy to see that spies will finally have a significant purpose (to ascertain a city's specialties according to its unique infrastructure).

-------------
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule

Posted By: Juswin
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:25

This is good news TC! Question, how about a Mountain Warfare College?

Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:29

HonoredMule wrote:

Does the Chancery of Estates' bonus apply to the first level's cost on level II+ sovereignty claims, or only claims capped at level I?

Only claims at level I - its more of a land claim speciality (so non-alliance people can't settle there etc) and to show control on the strategic map.

Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:32

Wow, very nice!

Thank you!

Posted By: Kabu
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:48

Sounds exciting! I can't wait to tweak my cities! :)

Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:50

uhu..
this looks promising

Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 17:50

Awesome!!! Looking forward to it!

Oh, and I can't wait to train some Tarties at my Militarty Academy! ;)

Posted By: McFarhquar
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:00

Does "Magic Effectiveness" mean the actual results of the spell (eg the food prodcution bonus from Nature's Bounty) or does it just increase the spell strength?

Quick edit to add: Really like the art on these, too!

Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:00

i like this, it will make having a military more efficient by switching the cost from more gold based to basic resource based by lowering the gold cost and moving it to the building cost

Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:15

Can you give a for instance regarding the upkeep charges? what is the range we are looking at for low, medium, high upkeep?

Posted By: Larya
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:17

I see that there are buildings to make the casting of blights, even easier. Yet nothing is mentioned that would give a player a defense against these spells. Where is the balance?

The balance is Geomancy. Each Blight spell directly counteracts/is counteracted by a geomancy spell. Persistant Rain(Blight) is ~3% Clay production. Spirit of Earth(Geomancy) is +3% clay production.

Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:17

also food consumption?Are those buildings in range of consulate or vault in terms of pop they have?

Posted By: White Beard
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:19

The only players that will have any benefit from this is the attack happy bunch, the rest well we are left out in the cold and have to wait for the " it is comming soon " Nice way to keep the game balanced.

There is nothing there for increased production, nothing for adv res, nothing for defense.

And we still can't make a desicion until we know what the rest of the buildings are, so yeah well done

Posted By: Jane DarkMagic
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:19

So awesome... Very excited!

Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:22

White beard, there are many things for increased production of advance res if you know how to look at it.

Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:23

White Beard wrote:

There is nothing there for increased production, nothing for adv res, nothing for defense.

And we still can't make a desicion until we know what the rest of the buildings are, so yeah well done

there is the rune booster, and others are coming

Posted By: Jajusha
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:26

Juswin wrote:

This is good news TC! Question, how about a Mountain Warfare College?

Mountain is a terrain inside many biomes.

Posted By: Larya
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:31

Mountain is a terrain inside many biomes.

Yes, it is, but I think the point is that there are special techniques that RW people would use to fight on a mountain and that it is a significantly different terrain that training specifically to fight there is a useful thought.

Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:35

that would change little, since units that are good on mountains would have even larger bonus, so battles stats ratio would not change.

Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:36

White Beard wrote:

There is nothing there for increased production, nothing for adv res, nothing for defense.

And we still can't make a desicion until we know what the rest of the buildings are, so yeah well done

This is an inane comment. Not only is there a rune boosting building, there are buildings to improve upkeep on Spearmen and archers (all three for defense). There are also buildings to improve upkeep on all the diplo units (meaning you can keep more of them in your city for defense). There is also a building to increase geomancy (which as stated above balances blights). There is also the foreign office that means you can see diplos farther away (yet another defensive benefit. So what does that make? Nine Buildings that help with Defense? And that's not counting if you live in the Arctic, Desert, or Jungle, in which case those buildings will be critical aids in defense.

The Architects Office improves creating buildings, the Chancery of Estates helps with Sov (both of these I would classify as "Production").

So that is eleven or more buildings that help with defense or production... Why don't you think a little before you whine?

Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:38

Larya wrote:

I see that there are buildings to make the casting of blights, even easier. Yet nothing is mentioned that would give a player a defense against these spells. Where is the balance?

And where is the defense against all the Instant Blights? Under current rules, nobody ever uses the type of blights that you mentioned. But they can cast Instant Blights without even being identified by the victims city.

This thread describes the problem, and some possible solutions. GM Stormcrow replied and stated that there were fixes in the works. But these current updates seem to ignore the fixes, and will make the problem worse, before they make it better.

I will restate my position: I am not against the blight spells. I just want them balanced, with a sound defense against them. Currently some players cast small blights on themselves, just to prevent opponents from casting a worse blight upon them. That is a sign that game logic in this regard is flawed, when players have to manipulate game mechanics for protection.

Posted By: surferdude
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:38

Dakota Strider wrote:

I see that there are buildings to make the casting of blights, even easier. Yet nothing is mentioned that would give a player a defense against these spells. Where is the balance?

You can cast a minor blight with a very high spell power and that will prevent instant blights being cast...

Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:39

Forgot to link the thread I referred to:
http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/the-tool-of-cowards_topic2102_post22526.html?KW=#22526

Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:41

who cares about blights anyway?

Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 18:52

Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung

Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

who cares about blights anyway?

Trolls, and the people that Trolls cast Blights on. Wink

Posted By: Larya
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 19:30

In reference to the above linked post, the problem is already taken care of by an in game mechanic, so not to worry about it, AND your suggestions got the attention of the devs and they are already working on it. Stop whining.

Posted By: Babbens
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 20:27

I would not call it whining, I would call it making a point, a good one.
Thank you Dakota.

Posted By: John5420
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 21:14

So ... I know that this is not a direct response to this post but ... has anyone heard anything about the "Exodus" slated for this week ... the city moving update?

Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 22:12

Dakota Strider wrote:

Currently some players cast small blights on themselves, just to prevent opponents from casting a worse blight upon them. That is a sign that game logic in this regard is flawed, when players have to manipulate game mechanics for protection.

How is that not a form of balance? You have to use large amounts of mana and take a hit on a type of resource production in order to defend against it. And now when new buildings costing resources per hour, keeping a blight on yourself could hurt more than it did before. If anything, this could help balance that out a bit more as losing a percent of your resources may actually have a little bit of consequence.

-------------

Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 22:18

I hadn't realised, until now, just how specialised new cities will have to be and what impact this will have on the game.

Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 22:20

yup, and it seems that city specialisation is no longer a thing that comes later on... the first step in chosing the role of a city starts with where you place it.

Posted By: surferdude
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 22:24

Brids17 wrote:

Sounds like homeopathy... Tongue

Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 22:34

Brids17 wrote:

Brids, perhaps we have some miscommunication, because I totally agree that blighting yourself (to protect yourself from worse blights) is hurting yourself. And as you point out, these new buildings could make it even more painful.

But, I am not calling that balance. Basically that means you have to harm yourself to keep another player from harming you worse. Blights that reduce a portion of your crops, or basic resources are bad enough. But the blights that most worry about, I assume, are the ones that kill or destroy mass amounts of advanced resources. What I would call balance, is spell research that would allow you to Identify the casters of all hostile spells (current Identify spell does not do that), and schools of magic that would only take mana to defend your cities, and not the equivalent of a blight in resources.

As I mentioned before, GM Stormcrow had said those ideas were going to be incorporated.:
...4. Add new schools of magic to the magic research tree. Divination and Abjuration.
a) Divination would include the Identify Caster ability already in the game. It would include spells of various power, some that would give various amounts of information on a town that has a Divination spell cast upon it. It could also possibly be used to detect spells that are cast within opponents' cities.
b) Abjuration would include Dispel Magic, and be a school of spells that would protect your cities from hostile attacks. Lower level spells may reduce some of the incoming spell damage. The stronger the Abjuration spell, the more they can defend your town from. The strongest Abjuration spells could possibly reflect some of the hostile spell back upon the caster. The most powerful should require a very high amount of mana, so as to make it difficult to maintain constantly. Instead they would most likely be used only during times of war, when attack is imminent...

"An interesting post...

And it's scary how convergent some of your points are with things that are currently underway - ie most all of your point 4 a) and b)...."

SC

I apologize for the length and frequency of these replies, but if there is misunderstanding, I want to make it clear. I think its great, that there are new buildings. It will add a lot to the game. But there is a glaring problem with the Instant Blights in the game right now, and before anything is added to the game to make those stronger, I really believe that the defenses to these attacks should be incorporated first.

Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 23:27

Has it been said what the pop/food upkeep will be from the new buildings

Larya wrote:

Mountain is a terrain inside many biomes.

But fighting on a Mountain in the Jungles is nothing like the fighting on a Mountain in the Artic so i would assume each academy would instruct on advanced battle tactics on all the terrains in a biome after that its up to your to pick the right tool for the job for best outcomes

Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 23:29

White Beard wrote:

There is nothing there for increased production, nothing for adv res, nothing for defense.

And we still can't make a desicion until we know what the rest of the buildings are, so yeah well done

The militaristic buildings are there for defence equally as much as attack, as for production we have sovereignty for that, or are you claiming the more aggresive players have been long ignored and the production based accounts privaliged through sov buildings?

Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 23:34

Tornsky, in general terms the upkeep was described as

at level 20 - "High" means in the thousands per hour, and "Low" in the hundreds per hour.

Did anyone else notice that ThunderCat mentioned "naval administration" in virtually the same breath as "tip of the iceberg"?

Titanic, anyone?

My heart will go on!!!

Posted By: hydraa
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 23:54

Food, population will be very interesting with the new buildings. It may make cities 9 and 10 easier to get or harder to get since population is based on food consumed by the buildings. if we tear down high food T1 buildings for low food T2 buildings, city expansion may be slowed. (imagine that this is part of the balancing that is happening)

Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 23:55

Rill wrote:

Tornsky, in general terms the upkeep was described as

at level 20 - "High" means in the thousands per hour, and "Low" in the hundreds per hour.

Did anyone else notice that ThunderCat mentioned "naval administration" in virtually the same breath as "tip of the iceberg"?

Titanic, anyone?

My heart will go on!!!

As i understood it the High low med was wood stone iron clay only, i want to know how this is going to affect my population/food

Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 00:17

Looks fantastic and I look forward to it all coming out. One criticism tho. All the aspects of the new specialisation improves the game except for millitary. The new changes will basically mean that each city will only produce and maintain one unit type and will therefore only attack with one unit type. A system whereby a player was rewarded for having a spear wall infront of archers would be very nice.

Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 00:43

That was already the optimal case previously. The value of per-city troop specialization based on production is only being increased a little, and for anyone with 3+ cities it's an easy pill to swallow. Furthermore, it has always been tactically superior to choose at most 2 but more likely one type of troop for a particular engagement, which means having diverse armies only makes them less effective.

-------------
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule

Posted By: BellusRex
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 07:56

HonoredMule wrote:

That was already the optimal case previously. The value of per-city troop specialization based on production is only being increased a little, and for anyone with 3+ cities it's an easy pill to swallow. Furthermore, it has always been tactically superior to choose at most 2 but more likely one type of troop for a particular engagement, which means having diverse armies only makes them less effective.

This is true, but not being able to have a diverse army with differing tactics takes some fun away from fighting...I suppose part of the problem in having those kind of mechanics is a lot of work for the devs, as well as shifting the game play balance more heavily toward military based players...what ever comes down the road, it's going to be quite interesting to see over the coming months...

-------------
"War is the father of all things..."

Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 13:32

Having those kind of mechanics wouldn't need to shift the game mechanics toward military based players any more than the current new buildings do. The basic mechanics could be very simple ie. archer and spearmen combo get + 3% against infantry and +6% against cavlery, opposite for infantry and archer, Cavlery and infantry+ 4% to attack, cavlery and spearmen +4% to defence.

The devs would just have to figure out the balance as they have to for what they already have planed

Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 15:37

Adding these combinatorial bonuses would only restore the balanced army back to equity (or even supremacy). But a "diverse army" does not provide diverse tactics. Focused armies represent diverse tactics, while diverse armies offer one generalized tactic modeled after the kitchen sink.

It sounds to me more like the argument being made isn't for "better" military balance but one requiring less decision making when preparing, planning, and executing battles. But unless you just want to bash clubs at each other and see whose is biggest, picking optimal troops is the primary thought exercise affecting outcome, and just due diligence. Those who take the decision lightly rather than planning focused armies well in advance deserve to have their troops wasted needlessly.

-------------
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule

Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 02:40

I disagree, the troop selection for a battle will still often be a matter of chance rather than a tactical choice, especiall given that built troops must be made long in advance, especially as a siegeing force, there's little to do other than choose spearmen or archers. At the moment I'd accuse the current system of dumbing it down, as a millitary focused city is rather simple to design; choose one troop type, build the relevent structure and sov squares, done.

Under my suggestion players would have to balance the pros and cons of city design. Especially with the new buildings. Should I sacrifice another building plot for the respective buildings of both unit types? Should I have really good sov for one unit and therefore fast army replacement, or should I have sov for both units.

Posted By: BellusRex
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 04:44

HonoredMule wrote:

It sounds to me more like the argument being made isn't for "better" military balance but one requiring less decision making when preparing, planning, and executing battles. But unless you just want to bash clubs at each other and see whose is biggest, picking optimal troops is the primary thought exercise affecting outcome, and just due diligence. Those who take the decision lightly rather than planning focused armies well in advance deserve to have their troops wasted needlessly.

This was exactly what I was getting at, although I might have done it badly...I hate the pure numbers, I have more than you military structures. The more elements that highlight individual tactics and choices the better with me. I suppose order of movement, attack, initiative, and the like would be crucial. Say you had cav attacking spears and bows. Terrain would obviously be critical, but so would whether the spears engaged the cav first, say as in a pike wall screening archers. Or look at Agincourt, with heavy cav against longbowmen. Terrain, weather, movement, rate of fire, all combined to trump the accepted, proven tactics to that point.

So basically, for me anything bringing more depth and individual tactics and decisions will always be great, and to quote HM like all the cool kids do, the "kitchen sink" army will always be a sloppy, hope for the best approach...

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"War is the father of all things..."

Posted By: JohnChance
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 06:08

I have to agree with this. The combat in our game is extremely NOT satisfying. Often I get the same message about troops I didn't even use being good on such and such a terrain, and nothing about the actual battle except that I won it. Also whether I lose troops or not the loot picked up from battle is fairly worthless. Normally it's not even enough to replace a single loss.

There is no selection of which regiments are going in first, no real aim to the combat except for there to be combat which generates experience, for more combat that generally has no point, and no reward for the chore. There isn't even an interesting story of this specific battle or the factors that came into play for this specific set of my troops, enemy troops, and terrain. It's awful.

Adding new buildings doesn't change that, it just means that to be effective in combat I have to divert more of my resources into . . . not getting anything worthwhile. But I have to do it because otherwise I risk getting attacked by a "stronger" player and unlike normal combat siege combat is very destructive and purposeful. I could have my city destroyed or taken if it isn't filled with the best and most experienced troops. So it's not an optional system really.

Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 10:04

JohnChance wrote:

I have to agree with this. The combat in our game is extremely NOT satisfying. Often I get the same message about troops I didn't even use being good on such and such a terrain, and nothing about the actual battle except that I won it. Also whether I lose troops or not the loot picked up from battle is fairly worthless. Normally it's not even enough to replace a single loss.

There is no selection of which regiments are going in first, no real aim to the combat except for there to be combat which generates experience, for more combat that generally has no point, and no reward for the chore. There isn't even an interesting story of this specific battle or the factors that came into play for this specific set of my troops, enemy troops, and terrain. It's awful.

Adding new buildings doesn't change that, it just means that to be effective in combat I have to divert more of my resources into . . . not getting anything worthwhile. But I have to do it because otherwise I risk getting attacked by a "stronger" player and unlike normal combat siege combat is very destructive and purposeful. I could have my city destroyed or taken if it isn't filled with the best and most experienced troops. So it's not an optional system really.

20k pop..
you have yet to really use military units .
do you fear a lol siege or what? people dont send siege out of the blue...( usually..)

Posted By: Faldrin
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 10:45

Every game cant have everything and the combat system in this game is complex in its own way.
If you want to have a more complex system go play something else :-)

That said this game still needs something to fight over beside killing off cities.

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Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 12:38

Faldrin wrote:

That said this game still needs something to fight over beside killing off cities.

But the question is, would a change like that not lead to the destruction of cities?

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Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 12:59

Interesting none-the-less... but perhaps we're going a little off topic?

Besides - I think some posters need to focus more on the things they are getting - not all the things they aren't.

Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 18:07

It is interesting to note that the debate over the new specialisation in buildings has largely been concerned with "the military path". Does this indicate that, yet again, the community largely want Illyriad to be driven by conflict, war and empire building?

Torn Sky has now helpfully set up a new thread where we can explore that further(see "Illy's Military Structure..."). Please do continue your discussions there. I know I shall.

In the meantime I am puzzled as to why those who support the "social network" path in Illyriad are not commenting on the other new specific structures. What kind of vision do the Social Network Path have? Do they have one? Do they see themselves as magicians or traders...?

How do they see some of the new developments in buildings enhancing their vision for this wonderful sandbox game of ours?

Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 18:56

Maybe the Crafting Update (dare I say it?) will satisfy all the whingers in here....

...or maybe not... in my experience people that whinge when they get shiny new updates tend to enjoy whingeing in general. ;)

Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 19:02

I think pathfinding comes next ;)

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"FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP

Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 19:12

would like to see faction AI then pathfinding/crafting then navy but my hopes are big and the Devs are crafty with that Fog of Development they love so much

Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 19:23

Torn Sky wrote:

would like to see faction AI then pathfinding/crafting then navy but my hopes are big and the Devs are crafty with that Fog of Development they love so much

hope AI will be the next big update...

Posted By: Nesse
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 20:31

I think SC said, a couple of weeks back, first buildings, then new magic schools, then faction AI. Pathfinding was not in the cards for this year.

Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 20:40

Nesse - I agree, yet pathfinding before crafting as proposed on page 6.

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"FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP

Posted By: bucky
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 23:56

sc in gc, 08/16/11: "2011 should bring city specialisation, new spell schools, L3 quests, Trade V2, Faction AI, hunting/gathering and a *whole* bunch of other cool things. Pathfinding, crafting, naval units - being realistic - ain't going to happen in 2011."

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"If you are the master be sometimes blind, if you are the servant be sometimes deaf." - R. Buckminster Fuller

Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 07:51

as someone who has played for over a year i would love to have an option for "replacing" my buildings, that is my biggest "beef" at the moment

I have spent lots of time and some money into this game, still love it, LOVE that we are finally starting to see the TRUE Illyriad :)

but HATE that i have buildings in towns that i might not have wanted and have settled towns in places i might not have liked (mainly the building thing)

i mean when I have waited a long time to finish a lot of buildings (mostly res buildings as i use prestige mostly on other buildings)

not saying that my lvl 2 tav's couldnt be demolished real quick but that is only one plot of land, there is a decent amount of new buildings to choose from and i saw at least three that i wouldnt mind having....and that's only from this first peek at the buildings

if i sound dumb let me know, but we arent getting more "plots" for the buildings right?
I mean i assume in future we will...

.....wonder if my town will look Orcish soon when i look at the town map ;)

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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 08:13

Please get some Quaaludes...

Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 08:53

lokifeyson wrote:

"replacing" my buildings, that is my biggest "beef" at the moment

If you could keep all the buildings, why would this business be called city 'specialization'? Geek

And that is the good part too - if there were plots for all buildings, it would add no diversity.

Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 08:56

and there are 14 more buildings in the plan (?) if those include buildings required for hunting/gathering and crafting, we might need to squeeze out even more space!

Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 11:22

right "specialization" hmm...

what will the pop be of these new buildings?

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Posted By: Olek
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 11:38

Torn Sky wrote:

would like to see faction AI then pathfinding/crafting then navy but my hopes are big and the Devs are crafty with that Fog of Development they love so much

I think the AI/Faction update will be the one I look forward to the most, especially if it enables Alliances to attack factions, kind of like PvE, and would give an Alliances something to do when not at war.

Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 12:58

for sure Olek :)

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Posted By: Johnny112
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 21:42

All I know is that I'm EXTREMELY Geeked up about this development!

Posted By: xstatk
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2011 at 22:09

Urban Counter Terrorism Unit?

And what's with this damned Architects Office? Do you know how hard it is already to get Planning Permission and Approval? The RMA [Resource Management Act] is a joke. If there's even a blade of grass around the greenies jump up and down and call for it to be protected. The world-wide Emissions Trading Scheme is just waiting to throw their hammer into the ring if it even looks like we're leaving 'carbon footprint'. And now an Architects office?? Damned bureaucratic nonsense! Cut more trees down so we can shuffle more paper!

*turns to his Factotum* "Get me the name of the administrator of this proposed Architect's Office, I think he might need a visit from the Assassin's Asylum"

Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2011 at 11:01

May I say thumbs up for pre-release of architects office. Makes for quicker building of the other new buildings when they come up and if it turns out to be over powered then it's simply a boon to new players, which can only be a good thing.

Posted By: Nesse
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2011 at 15:53

And now the foreign office can be researched. Doubles foreign diplo visibility range and takes a day to research. Might be worth it, but I'm less sure than about the architects.

Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2011 at 19:07

Foreign Office seems useless to me. Expanding visibility from 15 sqs to 30 sqs gets you no where.

Expanding diplo visibility to 2 sqs does not really make back-tracking any easier.

Diplos attack from hundreds of sqs away. I see little benefit to this building.

Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2011 at 19:23

Foreign Office might not be useful for tracking as such..

But I suppose you could get notice 12 squares ahead, and see them for 12 more squares after the attack - increases the likelihood of you being able to see the diplos before they vanish.

Also in thickly populated areas, 30 squares visibility is a big radius - you'll be able to observe diplo activity in your surroundings.

Posted By: intor
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2011 at 19:50

I know this is not the suggestions thread, but since I think this is relevant, I post this here.

Regarding the Foreign Office.

Perhaps if there was some sort of activity log which would store all diplomatic unit sightings, recording for each unit:

- Time and Location of first sighting.

- Time and Location of last sighting.

- Time and Location where it hit its targeted Location (if any in sight).

Each unit spotted could be logged for 48 hours, with the option to archive each for longer term storage (perhaps the archive could be limited to 10 or 20, but could be increased through prestige).

A prestige option could also give access to a map showing the area of sighting, with the ability to show each sighting as lines, with symbols indicating events like where they hit their target.

For a city to have access to those and be able to log diplo unit activity would require one of the new buildings, like the Foreign Office.

Posted By: Nesse
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2011 at 15:48

I don't want to complain, and the buildings are good looking and easy to distinguish. But isn't the architects office too big? I mean it is much larger than most of the other buildings, except the castle. I guess an architect would consider that appropriate, but in a medieval town, I think the architect office would be a bit more modest.

I suggest that this building is reduced in size to maybe 2/3 of its height.

Posted By: Mister_No
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 10:53

Hello everyone!

My knowledge of English is modest.
I try to write the Croatian literary language, that Google prevoditej its part, on my own, and your satisfaction is done in the best possible way.

I do not intend and do not want in any way diminish or discredit the effort, work and time that the development team has invested in this new project, which, as I see most of those who answered their records accepted with enthusiasm.

That, in any case, does not mean that these changes are enthusiastically accepted by most players.
Belongs to that group of players, and I am convinced that it is rare that these changes viewed with a caution.

Why is this so?

1st 20 new buildings, 25 new technologies, none, absolutely none of the new empty space for building.

2nd

No new buildings, as I understand, has no value, the main force. Here I am thinking of building that would be enough to build in one city and would serve as "master" of the building for all cities. It could be: Embassy, Barracks, Tower of Magic, and then this new building that would manage the outer estates, architectural office, and their, let's call them the pilot of the building would be located in other cities. Thus, both are now a thing arranged, no, that I would call them "master" the building will be quite difficult if not impossible, to agree the city by far, as far as possible, but no change in the production of basic and advanced product , to increase the capacity of storage space this will no longer be a game than torture.

3rd

What about veterans who have 7,8,9,10 cities? Do you really think that they will not be damaged? How much time, effort, nerves, and the "prestige" points spent? How much more will be spent? Or maybe you think that their"life" Illyriad completed?

4th

Are you taking care, by introducing the "improvements" that might be good to introduce a permanently reinforcement for the diplomatic and military units. I responsibly claim that this how things are arranged will not be possible in every city to build and train a diplomatic unit, as is now possible. For military buildings would not have words. Without continuous reinforcement, they are vain wasted money. Yours and us.

5th

A soap opera called the equation of food only: Soon? No, never.

Sincerely yours, faithful and a former customer "Prestige"

MisterNo

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Neither the future is not what it used to be...

http://youtu.be/lVdTQ3OPtGY

Posted By: Faldrin
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 11:51

"The Jungle Warfare College increases both the attack and defense abilities of all military troops produced by this town when fighting in this major biome by 1% per level of the building."

Is it really produced by this town or is it "owned" by the town with the building in?

Asking as it might be possible in the future to trade troops and will be better to have that clearified before that

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Posted By: Faldrin
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 12:08

Mister_No wrote:

Hello everyone!

My knowledge of English is modest.
I try to write the Croatian literary language, that Google prevoditej its part, on my own, and your satisfaction is done in the best possible way.

I do not intend and do not want in any way diminish or discredit the effort, work and time that the development team has invested in this new project, which, as I see most of those who answered their records accepted with enthusiasm.

That, in any case, does not mean that these changes are enthusiastically accepted by most players.
Belongs to that group of players, and I am convinced that it is rare that these changes viewed with a caution.

Why is this so?

1st

20 new buildings, 25 new technologies, none, absolutely none of the new empty space for building.

2nd

A soap opera called the equation of food only: Soon? No, never.
Sincerely yours, faithful and a former customer "Prestige"
MisterNo

1st: This is good because it will force people to make choices.

2nd: I agree that some building is a "must have" and that will limit what buildings you can have in a city. If you make choices that will force you to transport rawmaterials (stone, food, clay etc.) often I also agree it will be "torture" more than a game. I havnt seen the upkeep cost of the buildings so do not know if that will be the case but it will be a choice you have taken. You are not forces to build any of the new buildings.

3rd: All players will be equally "hurt" by this upgrade but if you have placed and developed alot of cities and you now feel you have to move them you will offcouse be "hurt" more than a player with only 1 city.

4th: It could be nice with an option to reinforce for a longer periode or even until recalled. The game does need a diplo update so that you can "reinforce" with diplomats and also make attacks by assasins on siege camps, blokades etc.

5th: Hard life?

Please correct me if I have understood your comments in a wrong way.

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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 12:26

Mister_No wrote:

I do not intend and do not want in any way diminish or discredit the effort, work and time that the development team has invested in this new project, which, as I see most of those who answered their records accepted with enthusiasm.

That, in any case, does not mean that these changes are enthusiastically accepted by most players.
Belongs to that group of players, and I am convinced that it is rare that these changes viewed with a caution.

Why is this so?

1st 20 new buildings, 25 new technologies, none, absolutely none of the new empty space for building.

2nd

A soap opera called the equation of food only: Soon? No, never.

Sincerely yours, faithful and a former customer "Prestige"

MisterNo

what a horrible rant! Confused

And I cant even understand the reason!

1. No new empty spaces.

That gives you a choice as to what to build. What is the fun if everything was to be built everywhere?

2. Master Buildings

This change was mentioned as 'city specialization' and that is what exactly it is. You can suggest the idea of master buildings in the "Enhancements and Suggestions" thread.

3. Players with 7, 8, or 9 cities ...

...has now something to do.

4. It will certainly be possible to train diplo and military units in every town. In fact, it is with this update that I realized there is a good reason to keep both diplo and military forces in every town. What changed? You figure out.

5. There was a lot of effort and discussion regarding balancing food. It is alright for you to trust your own discretion more than the devs. But show some gratitude.

Posted By: Mister_No
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 12:33

-------------
Neither the future is not what it used to be...

http://youtu.be/lVdTQ3OPtGY

Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 12:54

If you want to play a game that never changes Mister_No - go play something else. On-going development (and changing strategy) is an integral part of Illyriad's history, present and future.

Vets knew this when they paid for prestige and they knew it when they spent it.

Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 13:02

Createure wrote:

If you want to play a game that never changes Mister_No - go play something else. On-going development (and changing strategy) is an integral part of Illyriad's history, present and future.

Vets knew this when they paid for prestige and they knew it when they spent it.

Posted By: Mister_No
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 13:10

As for the thanks, praise does not know to write ....
I think this is enough, but it was written the first sentence of my comment.

I know how and where I spent and where I spend my prestige.
Now we are able to get 20 more, to spend them.
And that's all we got.

Wonderful, is not it?

-------------
Neither the future is not what it used to be...

http://youtu.be/lVdTQ3OPtGY

Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 13:20

prestige is free on a daily base...

Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 13:27

Prestige = reduced building Time, not less, not more.
You'll just need prestige, if you're too impacient. You can play this game well enough without using it, so don't complain about new possibilities to spend it... But if you're using prestige, does it really matter, what building you use it on... Stern Smile

And playing a city building game, and then complaining about new buildings just doesn't get into my mind... Confused

Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 13:37

Hora wrote:

Prestige = reduced building Time, not less, not more.
You'll just need prestige, if you're too impacient. You can play this game well enough without using it, so don't complain about new possibilities to spend it... But if you're using prestige, does it really matter, what building you use it on... Stern Smile

And playing a city building game, and then complaining about new buildings just doesn't get into my mind... Confused

Totally!

Posted By: John Louis
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 02:19

In the spirit of debate I have the following to say - but firstly I take this opportunity to thank the devs for all the new updates now taking shape.
On the 'city transfer' point, however, I have some issues. I have to say it seems unfair that after all these changes (some of which could not have been predicted by most players) transferring a city will have some harsh penalties - i.e. buildings being reduced in lvl etc.
Given the lack of knowledge, due to a lack of in-game information, most players may have had when building cities, I think all cities should have a 'one-off' option to be transferred without any penalty. This ability could be limited to 1 week, or a little more, immediately after the city transfer option becomes available.
I ask the devs to please, please, consider this...I think long time players with various cities and even newer players with just 2 or 3 would welcome a one-off city transfer option like this so as to adjust to the new Illyriad world being created.
If the devs are not in agreement with me, then please consider allowing a magical option (even if it costs lots of manna) so as to move any city without any penalty.
I invite other players to comment on this point.

Posted By: tallica
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 03:06

John Louis wrote:

In the spirit of debate I have the following to say - but firstly I take this opportunity to thank the devs for all the new updates now taking shape.
On the 'city transfer' point, however, I have some issues. I have to say it seems unfair that after all these changes (some of which could not have been predicted by most players) transferring a city will have some harsh penalties - i.e. buildings being reduced in lvl etc.
Given the lack of knowledge, due to a lack of in-game information, most players may have had when building cities, I think all cities should have a 'one-off' option to be transferred without any penalty. This ability could be limited to 1 week, or a little more, immediately after the city transfer option becomes available.
I ask the devs to please, please, consider this...I think long time players with various cities and even newer players with just 2 or 3 would welcome a one-off city transfer option like this so as to adjust to the new Illyriad world being created.
If the devs are not in agreement with me, then please consider allowing a magical option (even if it costs lots of manna) so as to move any city without any penalty.
I invite other players to comment on this point.

I have been looking forward to city moving for quite some time now, since my old alliance fell to pieces and I am starting a new alliance of my own, I decided that I wanted to start that new alliance in a very different area of the world map. My options were to hope that there would be a way to move towns in the foreseeable future or have my towns sieged and destroyed. At the time I elected (as did a friend of mine) to have our towns sieged. As fate would have it, shortly after the sieges began we heard word that city moving was on the front burner and was moved from soon to imminent. Lucky for me I only lost 1 small town in the end, but I have since been waiting and waiting. Later still I learned that buildings would be knocked down to level 12 during the move, and I thought that was a fair comprimise, compared to totally starting from scratch. However, several of my more important buildings (barracks, mage tower, market, etc) were all above level 15 and I would be taking quite a hit on my towns.

Anyway, to get to the point, it would be nice to be able to move my towns with no penalty, however I feel that the penalty is still not too harsh, when the alternative is to have your town destroyed and send replacement settlers to a new location and start over. I welcome the chance to move and will gladly pay the fine of reduced building levels. Luckily I didn't have all of my buildings finished, but I will take a pretty hefty hit when moving. Even so I'm still anxious for it to be released and I've been saving up prestige so that I can rebuild as quickly as possible.

In the end, yes the penalty is harsh, but the benefit is great (for me anyway). There are lots of older members who have relocated the old way and would probably wish they had this option back then.

Posted By: surferdude
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 03:13

These changes don't really change anything though? You can still do what you did before...

The only change is an option to specialise a city, which improves it in one way and cripples it in another. You can happily continue as a "jack of all trades but master of none" city.

As for the stopping tax when running out of resources - that probably could have been predicted; and it doesn't necessarily change the desirablity of high food for high pop; which always existed.

Posted By: Dakota Strider
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 06:20

If the price for moving a city seems too expensive, then I would guess that the city really does not need to be moved. I am contemplating moving several myself, and almost every time, I come to the conclusion, that I can live with the original placement. This is despite the fact I made some mistakes in location, as I learned the game (still learning by-the-way). This is a game of choices, and thanks for that. If every player, and every city had to follow the exact same pattern to succeed, then the game would lose its appeal. Part of the challenge is to see if you can take a less than optimal placed city, and make it work. Or as some may say: "When given lemons, make lemonade." And with these new technologies and buildings, it should be even easier to do so.

Posted By: White Beard
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 06:45

I agree with you 100 %

Even just loosing levels on the res tiles would be Ok, since players that move cities can choose which ones they prefer.

Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 08:00

Much as I'm looking forward to the Chancery of Estates (forget the benefits of lvl1 Sov - I just wanna claim the squares - that swamp will be mine, all mine, mwahahahaha!), I have a more immediate question:

Does anyone know if there's a way to tell how far a "Biome" extends?

I have several cities on the edge of frozen ice wastes. Are the cities themselves in the Arctic Biome? Or is the Arctic Biome only the ice tiles? Or does it actually extend over a broader areas?

Likewise, if I were on a plains tile near some jungles, I guess I'd want to know if that counted as a Jungle Biome, or whether I have to be in the jungle for that to count...?

Seems a key question with regard to the new military academies!

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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.

Posted By: Mister_No
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 10:54

I planted a tree you (Prestige), and how it usually is, you do not see it from the forest.

Being specific, so I will openly suggest, and hopefully open a debate.

Given the changes that have occurred, and the changes that are underway, which is mainly confined to a large number of new buildings, for better functionality, and the sense of this for me a really unique game, I think:

Consulate, Magic Tower, Architectural firm, Baracks, and the office that controls the external properties are not needed in every city, but only in the capital. My suggestion is to only build in the capital. The construction of these things, we call the main building, a new option for the construction of their ancillary buildings, by which I mean the buildings for diplomatic and military units in other cities and the capital city, and buildings related to the Magic Tower.

Requirements for the construction of ancillary buildings should be acquired as well as up to now, research, and built the level of each of the main building.

Abolish the building, the so-called boosters of primary production, a basic equation to increase production, as well as the price of upgrades, including the time required for the upgrade. Build a blacksmith, forge, and Fletcher conditional level of production of basic resources.

Provide diplomatic and military units option permanent reinforcement. This opens the possibility that military and diplomatic units are formed in one city, and they are still allocated to long-term task. In this I mean, first of all, in other cities in my possession. If you do not need to be producing all the resources in each city, we need not just every recruit.

Here's an example. Runes we need just in every city. Must we really in every city to have Magic Tover. I think that we do not need. All it takes is that one in the capital, and the upgrading, and in each subsequent survey shall meet the requirements for the construction of a building that will allow us to use.

So far so.

Respect, MisterNo

-------------
Neither the future is not what it used to be...

http://youtu.be/lVdTQ3OPtGY

Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2011 at 11:31

How about: Have a sliding scale of penalty for moving. The penalty starts at 18 levels, and reduces by 1 level for every 21 days that pass, stopping at 2 levels. This is 'fair', in that it avoids unreasonable exploit, but I'm struggling to find a corresponding real-world explanation for it; at best, I think that when people have finished settling, they're more able to prepare for a move.

An alternative: As part of the moving process, a user specifies WHEN the move is to begin. Production and other benefits then start to ramp down to L10 over time. When the city is moved, then the levels are built back up again - all the way to previous values, unless... Shorter notice means heavier penalties: any building not at L10 by the move date will lose the difference 'from the top' of their rebuild levels, e.g. if a building starts at L20, and is at L14 on the move date, then it can only be rebuild to L16 (4 levels off the original L20).