Where's the Good Versus Evil?
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Strategies, Guides & Help
Forum Name: General Questions
Forum Description: If your gameplay question isn't answered in the help files, please post it here.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2329
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 06:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Where's the Good Versus Evil?
Posted By: glorfindel
Subject: Where's the Good Versus Evil?
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 03:06
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First off, let me just say how much I love the game and think it is extremely well-done. I do, however, have a question and comment on the different species within the game, and how little they have to do with the virtual world that is Illyriad. Obviously, this game is predicated on Tolkien's vision of Middle Earth. The humans, elves, dwarves, and orcs all come from his books, as do most of the gameplay elements (maybe halflings, ents, trolls, and other species will come along as well?) Upon seeing the choices of different species, I assumed that if you were to take on the persona of an orc, you would play the game -- strategically -- like one of the "bad guys" in The Lord of the Rings. Or, if you were an elf, you'd be striving for "good." This, however, is not the case. There seems to be little combat and even fewer wars. Orcs and elves comprise the same alliances and intermingle in a kind of "Middle Earth moral relativism." I think this game would be well-served to make Tolkein's battle between good and evil a very real driving force in the gameplay. Just as in other role playing games, where you can choose to be good, evil, or somewhere in the middle, so too should that be a choosable option that has consequences. It should place you on some sort of "side," and the game platform should dictate that the Illyriad universe is in some kind of implicit struggle between good and evil -- just as it is in Middle Earth. Granted, I know that there is a robust social community here, and I'm not saying that elves and orcs have to hate each other. I know people enjoy the social networking part of this game, and that's a really good thing. But I think that the social community here kind of dominates the feel of the game -- it's all too friendly to really be channeling Tolkein's vision. I'd just like to see more "good versus evil" in the game. Just a thought. :-)
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Replies:
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 03:35
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first: you have poor understanding on how war actually works here. second: those that have fought a big war, usually dont wish to fight any other wars third: illyriad has is own lore, not based on tolkien's world in the slightest |
Posted By: Gromsh
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 04:04
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Although Tolkien was the first author to gather all the legend and lore from around the world into one setting, he was no where near the last. There has been thousands of authors since Tolkien creating rich and varied worlds with the "classic" races. Although we at Illyriad draw inspiration from many authors and many worlds, the world and lore of Illyria is entirely its own and we are making most of it from scratch. As for the "classical evil" races like orcs you will find people Roleplaying orcs from Warhammer, some from AD&D, some from Tolkien and even more don't roleplay them at all, the same goes for the other races. Illyriad is a sandbox game with heavy player participation, so if the players play the orcs as a part of the kingdom then that's what they are. As for the "good vs evil" theme, you can find lots of that here in the forums with tons of wonderful hyperbole about alliances and players designating each other as good or bad, dishonourable or men/women of their word. Again the sandbox comes in with the players making their own arch nemesi, bloodfeuds and so on. As always, keep ideas and suggestions comming, that's how we make Illyriad the greatest game around, player involvement. Sincerely Gromsh ------------- All we have learnt from history is that we haven't. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 04:19
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One of the problems with epic battles of good vs. evil is that it presupposes a game in which there are "winners" and "losers." It also leaves little room for the "vanquished." Must they convert or die? As Gromsh notes, Illy is not lacking in conflict. I don't see the fact that we don't demonize our opponents ... very much ... as being a weakness of the game. Rather, it reflects the maturity of the players and of the community.
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Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 07:00
| There is good and evil here it's just that 1 side is heavily dominant at the moment. |
Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 21:38
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wonders which side is heavily dominant because usally you can tell them apart ------------- �I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 21:46
| Evil is dominant!!! Can't you tell! ;) |
Posted By: scottfitz
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 22:44
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Good and Evil in Illyriad are subjective projections, just like they are in the real world! my friends, and the people I like, and those who act in ways that I like, are good, every one else is evil.
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Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 00:13
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Does this mean I'm evil?
------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 00:18
You wish! Hope school is going well, Kur. Rill
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Kurfist wrote:Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 00:25
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It's going fine, I'm pretty sure I'm evil, I plan to overthrow the snuggle government and install my own  If thats not evil, i dunno what is ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 00:37
| Lemme know when you want the keys Kur ... the paperwork alone is killing me. |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 00:42
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Tuesday would be a good day. Labor weekend.. woo I wouldn't mind a good vs evil if it was more balanced. ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: scottfitz
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 02:26
| I have always liked you Kurfie, you are not evil, merely cute |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 04:40
+1
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Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 06:50
x2
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Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 08:47
That IS evil, twisting the plus sign....... Evil!
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Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 08:56
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Like SF said there is no good or evil with clear boundries...it is more like in that film Equilibrium.I love that film. |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 11:25
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I think Glorfindel's header post and Gromsh's response really do get to the nub of a debate about the best and most qualitative way forward for Illyriad. Both posts carry important views to which a large number of gamers within community would subscribe. Arguably even alliances within the game might be said to represent one view or the other. The social networking aspect of Illyriad is unique in comaparison with other games. Increasingly alliances are starting to be established almost totally for the purpose of social networking.. Whether that will improve the game qualtatively , I think, is open to debate. On the other hand there are many players and even alliances that draw on heavily on the influences of Tolkien's work - not just the story line but the strong moral drive that is a theme throughout his writings on middle earth. I will posts more on this when I have more time. |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 14:30
Since UiV2 was launched, social networking has become increasingly popular within Illyriad. Alongside that has been the increase in female players who have found space to not only express themselves and take on prominent roles in alliances but are now starting to assert themselves as leading influences in the community. At the community base is broadening out and becoming more and more global as the word spreads though the gaming world that Illyriad different and worth trying out. These are all positive indicators which I hope will be increased. Yet robust social networking has brought negative effects also. The problem for me is that I agree with Glorfindel. Social networking is beginning to dominate the game. It is starting to take such a hold on the game, that I can see certain individual players actually attempting to develop a cult of personality . Consequently where conflicts do take place they tend to be wholly personalised and based on personal dislike and can become highly emotional. I think that this is neither good for the game nor the individual players involved and it would be far healthier if major conflicts were driven by external factors related to game lore or the codex. I share the principals of Glorfindel's arguement below.
Of course glorfindel is wrong to assert that Tolkien is the major influence on Illyriad as Gromsh and others were quick to point out. Yet Glorfindel's point about the need to establish "the battle between good and evil as a very real driving force in the gameplay" stands because I feel that the predominance of social networking is in danger of devaluing the game and all the hard work, apps, technical and narrative development that has gone into it. However Gromsh states:
For me this argument doesn't stand up. If, when referring to community generated "good vs evil" themes, in the forums, Gromsh means; The Daily Dose of Drama; ~KT~ v Havoc; Lorre v Valar etc - then these are poor examples of the "driving" strategic gameplay. They have no direction, no quality and all those threads have degenerated into off topic conversations a la social networking. By using the Illyriad factions, codex and game lore it would be quite simple for the development team to construct it's own overarching "driving" set of objectives for each race that would bring them into conflict with other races eg: Dwarves (see Dwarven Origins in Codex) Objectives could be set to: 1. find the lost city of Duraz Karak ( by a series diplomatic quests) 2. Seize the city from the parvacones and also from an opposing insurgent Orc hordes ( by campaign) 3. locate the eternal crown (by a series of diplomatic quests and one campaign against Clan Moedagh and Treggars Crow's) 4. Thus become the one TRUE High King of the Dwarves as foretold in the Codex. Other examples could set for Humans Orcs and Elves. Social networking is great at first with all benefits it brings for new players coming to Illyriad but will it keep players interests in the long term. Without an overarching theme - I doubt it. |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 14:43
this is what i am locking forward to... this kind of things . ... if such a thing would be possible, then Belargyle shall get that title! |
Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 15:02
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THE KING BENEATH THE MOUNTAINS
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Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 18:58
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I saw the subject of this thread, and thought of a response, then I read the posts. I think the Illy dev, and one other poster touched on my thoughts, which can be distilled as:
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Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 19:06
+1
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 19:32
| The factions, when they go live, have the potential to cause conflict between players, too. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 21:18
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The core issue here is a lack of conflict. This is after all, primarily a war game. The lack of war is due to players unwillingness to risk core assets. This (as has been discussed and imo) can be solved by the introduction of non-core assets to fight over. IE pseudo-tournament like square's which hold some merit/value etc. The proof is in the tournament pudding and would alleviate the growing tide of player restlessness which pervades Illyriad and, imo, is the underlying current to this thread. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 23:17
i dont recall hear this is a war game... i thought this is a wide open sandbox game |
Posted By: BellusRex
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 23:24
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I think it would be worthwhile to introduce some themes or campaign elements to the game, as well as allowing the players and alliances who seem to be social focused go that route if they choose...The lore already developed for Illy has the potential for countless epic storylines and motivations... With four different races in Illy currently represented, the idea of racial goals and quests has lots of possibilities. So also does some sort of arc based on how you wish to play the game, i.e. magic, military, diplo, trade, etc. Establishing trading guilds, mage schools of different ethos, mercenary companies, all along side or within the current alliance structure.Hopefully factions will go a long way to resolving some of this... The one thing that is a concern to me is what I've seen ultimately happen to players in other games, myself included. When the game basically boils down to just attacking other players, at some point enough is enough, all interest in doing the same thing over and over is gone. Without new elements, stagnation will set in at some point. The social community of this game goes a long way toward offsetting this at the moment, unlike most other chats you see. There are good players here who care that others enjoy the game and stick around, and that's a rare thing in the browser gaming world... My sole concern and dog in this hunt is that I love this game I stumbled upon just 2 short months ago, and I want it to be around for a long time, without losing that special something which I think we all recognize it has.... ------------- "War is the father of all things..." |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2011 at 23:28
warmongers will not prevail. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 01:10
No one is suggesting they will prevail Kil. But what is missing is that aspect of Illy. It is undeniably a prominent component which currently is almost completely unused. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 01:59
| Factions and how they interact with the rest of us have the potential to make this game quite amazing, I would say most of us are keenly awaiting their introduction, more so than most other possible releases. |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 02:44
/me pouts wheres the reasoning behind that!? ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Kabu
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 08:11
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Like The Dude said, when factions become active, we might get more fighting going on. I also heard something about implementing interception and tolls. I haven't got into much fighting myself, but I still feel from the global chat and welcoming caravans that the trend is to be peaceful and help each other, at least regarding newbies. While I understand such a world can become boring in the long term from a strategic perspective, I think it potentially brings two novel aspects compared to other games I played. First, a focus on diplomatic negotiations rather than warring, which people can arguably still find boring because it involves more writing than clicking, but still. And secondly, a world that seems to be dominated by the "good" people, when it's usually the other way round, with a lot of chaos going around and nice little guilds usually getting crushed or at least overwhelmed by harsh elitistic ones. All in all, while the game may look too quiet right now, but I'm looking forward to future additions and how things might turn out given the conditions I mentioned. |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 01:05
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The introduction of interception might cause many alliances to claim territories, even more than there is already . Combined with tolls and pathfinding, this might take "border disputes" to a whole new level  ...Oh, and to stay on topic.... OF COURSE those guys at OUR side of the border are the GOOD ones...  (...except Kurfist, of course... He is EVIL per his own definition  )kindest regards Hora |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 01:16
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I think we've gone off topic here.
------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 01:54
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...but as he's on OUR side, it's the GOOD sort evil... /me desperatly trying to catch Kurf and integrating him into the topic  |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 02:06
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Aww you guys do want me! :D
------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: glorfindel
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 17:34
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Sorry I posted this question and have been so slow to respond. These are all wonderful, thoughtful replies, and I'm glad that the thread started up a discussion. I'd just like to clarify a few things about my original post: first, I understand that Illyriad draws from other sources than just Tolkien. That being said, I would argue that good vs. evil, heroes vs. villains, aggressors vs. repellers, are all binary oppostions that are omnipresent in all of the fantasy, myth, and folklore that relates directly to this game. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any supporting fantasy worlds similar to Illyriad that bear a resemblance to the hegemony we have here on Illyriad. Like I said before, the community is more like a post-war community. To use LOTR-centered theory, it's like we occupy the Middle Earth after Sauron and the ring are vanquished. Yet, at the same time, players can choose to be Orcs, who are decidedly evil (can anyone find an example in other Literature where Orcs or Orc-like creatures are forces of good? Or even neutral for that matter?) And as some others have said here, I think there are two reasons for this. One is the social networking aspect. The fact is, if you are not at war but want to be "playing the game," one has to bide their time to wait for things to be constructed and research to be completed. The only recourse is to chat in the GC. By doing that, people forge friendships (which there is nothing wrong with that), but these new relationships come to dominate the game moreso than the game itself. Second -- and I have a feeling that I'm going to open up another can of worms here -- but I think that the fact that the community here is somewhat tilted to being Uk/European players, I think that the post-war mentality that still permeates European cultures is ascribed here. Europe, after all, suffered horribly from war in the 20th century. WWI was called "The Great War" and "The War To End All Wars," because people could not ever imagine humanity entering into another war that horrible. Then, WWII comes along and is a hundred times worse. Millions of people killed, wounded, maimed -- and then all of the destruction. It left a lasting impression, and I think the effects are still felt in the current generations there. This is why Europe has become decreasingly demilitarized over the decades and has a decreasing willingness -- and capability -- to fight wars. It is completely understandable, considering what Europe has been through. And I would argue that Japan has a similar condition, thanks to having had nuclear bombs dropped on them. As a result, I think that some players -- perhaps subconsciously -- are trying to model this sphere into a post-war world. It's just a theory, though -- I'm not saying I'm "right." What do you think? P.S. -- Just to add: I really do love the game. To me, it's more of an interesting academic discussion about how the community is developing here, and how the game could be improved. But all in all, I love the concept. :-)
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Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 18:54
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I think the lack of good vs. evil dichotomy in Illyriad's lore is the result of focusing on more realistic world-building (as many more mature fantasy works do as well). Good vs evil is easy, and simple, while realism trends toward evil vs evil and who's really good? Good and evil only exist as concepts of obedience to something pure and authoritatively right, and that leads into controversial religious content. What's left is self vs others. And there is where dichotomy does exist within the player base and the metagame. Some, nay most players are ultimately interested in self, while few if any care for others exclusively. Many who care for self recognize the value for self in supporting community and not chasing players away. Thus, as with real society, we have an atmosphere of "others" built upon self--good and evil are just political labels used well outside their true meaning. ------------- "Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now." - HonoredMule |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 18:57
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So your saying that a majority of the community don't really care for everyone else, but has to appear to in order to stay alive? ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 18:58
try read some of the orc based factions lore. orcs here wary from Lawful good ( http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/72" rel="nofollow - Pax Orcana ) to chaotic neutral ( http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/64" rel="nofollow - Marauding Skullsplitters , http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/71" rel="nofollow - Crimson Skulls )to lawful evil ( http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/70" rel="nofollow - Blood Reavers )...and this are just the greenskins that are actually orcish... not counting all the kobolds, goblin, hobgoblin, trolls and god knows how many other greenskins... if you look for always chaotic evil, try look at the monstrous factions.. like http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/33" rel="nofollow - Melders , http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/44" rel="nofollow - Sirens , http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/24" rel="nofollow - Harpies , http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/43" rel="nofollow - Sillar , http://www.illyriad.co.uk/Codex/Faction/78" rel="nofollow - Foshnu Ob Wulpor .... |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 18:59
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Maybe he meant an outside source of Orcs? Outside of illyriad will you find orcs that are good? ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 19:03
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I think the most important point here is that the game is a sandbox. As such, Orcs are free to be good, elves are free to be evil... I'ts up to the players playing them. I agree that the new player friendly environment is unique and I think it's something that everyone in Illy should be very proud of. I too agree that we will see many more conflicts as reasons to need to own land increase (strategic water systems, roads, resource areas). The GMs have told us these are coming and a huge number of Illy players have located their cities in anticipation. And wars will inevitably follow... |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 19:04
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I like this guy^ Usually knows what he's saying, whereas i just hear about something "usually" and repeat it. :D ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 20:06
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TBH, in Illy as in real life - the masses have a nasty habit of considering their own cause "good" and their enemies' causes "evil" as a means of justifying their actions... as if the labels 'good' and 'evil' are not just some totally arbitrary labels on a moral compass where North shanges constantly and is different for everyone... basically - "good versus evil" is somewhat defunct :/ Mostly the folks in Illyriad clash arms for far more pragmatic and understandable reasons... here's 8 I can think of: - resource/land control - competition/tournament - (aka epeen -> a place on a highscore ranking) - boredom - revenge - just for an interesting challenge - excess troops/too much upkeep - because their commander(s) told them to ^^ - just to see what would happen... <- (this one is my favourite) |
Posted By: Gromsh
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 22:12
The author R.R Martin deals with some of these issues, although he hasn't introduced the classic races into his world as of yet, he has set a world up where almost ever person has good and bad in him/her (yes even Cercei) In his world its more about shades of grey and points of view, possibly with the exeption of some of the Stark characters. Many of the new-ish fantasy authors play with the "ethics" of fantasy, in the Drizzt books you often see sadistic or overeager or predujiced people treating all races which are different from them selves with disdain and scorn. Humans killing elves so they can plant farms where the forest is and elves killing humans to protect the forest. So although Tolkien is a classic setting, it's not by a longshot the only setting nor the only way to write. For my money LOTR is a very poorly written series and very boring as well as the characters has no "flesh", no substance, where as much of the newer fantasy strives to make the characters believeable instead of archetypes of all good or all evil personas.
There are many and varied examples of Orcs being non-"evil" in the fantasy genre. The orc in WoW is one of them, and they have issued a number of fantasy books set in their world. To take a more classic example AD&D has 2 campaignsettings I can think of of the top of my head which presents a non-"evil" orc: Forgotten Realms and Darksun. In the Darksun campaign they even went as far as making a race of desertdwelling, cannabalistic elves. Hows that for classic fantasy races?
I do not believe this to be true in the slightest. If this were true then violent game and movie sales in Europe and Asia would be a fraction of what they were. Also the fact that France and England stepped up and took charge of the whole Libya affair (or at least tried to) speaks against this. Also, if it were true then there would be no way that so many countries in Europe could sustain a volounteer army. This sort of mindset you would have to go back to the 50s and 60s to find, and even there you would be in trouble due to the whole Korea war and Vietnam war which also involved several European countries. Lastly, not every country in Europa had the same experience. Some countries, like Denmark and Sweden were hardly touched while others like Germany, Poland, Ukraine, and Belorussia were devastated, in Polands case several times. In any event, this is to answer your theory, not to open up for an argument about WW2. So any who read this, please stay on topic 
We are glad you do, that you all do, and please keep debating the game, it stirs the pot and forces us to "defend" our work, and thus re-examining it which we learn a lot by. As always, keep ideas and suggestions comming, that's how we make Illyriad the greatest game around, player involvement. Sincerely Gromsh ------------- All we have learnt from history is that we haven't. |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 23:53
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Got told by a staff worker. Hiya Gromesh, @ Glorfindel, good theories, i was waiting for someone like HM or Kumo to comment though. :D ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Leungarific
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 04:45
To expand on GM Gromsh's statement about WoW Orcs, I'd also like to propose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_%28Warhammer%29" rel="nofollow - Warhammer Orcs and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ork_%28Warhammer_40,000%29" rel="nofollow - Warhammer 40,000 Orks to the mix. Neither of the Warhammer series' orcs/orks are inherently evil. They also have the same 3x3 alignment rating as other races do. Everything is player specific. It's only the influence of Tolkien and writers of his kind that have given orcs a bad name. ((Sample 01 - A Warcraft alignment Chart - Notice how the orc images are listed for Neutral Good and Lawful neutral >.>))  ((And of course Sample 02 - a Warhammer 40K alignment chart!))  ------------- Whence we cometh foreth youeth, youeth willeth knoweth iteth. - AnalrotsAnIStinkAlot |
Posted By: Thexion
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 12:19
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Also in sovereign stone trilogy by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman orc's are good or neutral... http://www.amazon.com/Well-Darkness-Sovereign-Stone-Trilogy/dp/0061020575 |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 16:18
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I just knew Leunegarific/WarrrghBoss was going to try and convince us that those GREENSKIN ORKY BOYZ is just misunderstood. They are all bad. Everybody knows that Orcs are evil. Never mind Gromsh's opinion - stop anyone in the street from 8 to 80 and they well tell you that all greenskins are only good for one thing. Spacemarine bolter target practice 
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Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 16:55
that's prejudice sir.. |
Posted By: Leungarific
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 02:55
Can't argue with that =\ However, that doesn't prove that greenskins are evil. It just proves that Spacemarines are evil, as is the Imperium (Fething lethe-loving goths!). |
Posted By: lianosk
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 10:55
| I am not evil either....Heheheh....Well maybe I am a little.... :)) |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 23:05
Just to feed them worms in your can... I don't really think you're right there. The situation in here more resembles the scenario of a cold war (and I think, even americans got that mentality ). The siege mechanism is a brutal weapon, causing players to quit on both sides, so noone dares to join fullout war without really being forced to do so... (which leaves place for occasional small battles and tournaments, of course).Perhaps an agreeable option would be some tournaments with roleplaying background, like orcs vs. elves, etc.. Full out war is some numbers too big just for roleplaying... |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 23:40
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Or if cities werent so expensive in terms of time and resources we would see more people willing to war.
------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Zillee
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 03:31
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Oooh interesting, the post was sent despite no text in the box ... so this is an edit to actually ... put some words in :D May I give a new player's perspective? This game is ideal for social networkers. Take for example my sister. She's a stay at home mum with two young children and spends a lot of time online (as do I but with different purposes). She likes social networking. She likes face book. This sort of game is just what she likes as she can run it in the background while doing other social based stuff online. I may send her a mail about it actually. She would likely ignore any 'lore' or 'roleplay' aspect to the game and when heading to GC or forums would be there with the perspective of the player behind the character, rather than the character. That's fine. It's not a criticism of how many play this game. It's just what I've observed. I've also noticed the divide between those who enjoy PvP and PvE. It's a bit of a weird set up in that respect. I'm used to games where servers are one or the other. But I think its something the devs need to address. Either make up their mind which direction they want to go in, or give players the tools to restrict their accounts to the type of activity they prefer - and so end the ooc disagreements over playstyle and the right to play how one wants to, that seem to have arisen. This whole sand box thing? Again its a lack of lore thing. If the Devs are happy with it, and presumeably they are if its bringing in sufficient new players and selling the prestige, then that is how it will stay. I did find it odd that when signing up and choosing a race, there was no information on the consequences of choosing a specific race. I went for human, as they are usually the jack of all trades master of none types in fantasy games, tending to the neutral good. I now realise race means very little here except for some IG specialisation, I think? Basically roleplay is not a predominant aspect of this game for most players. That's fine. Not a criticism. Just an observation. Will I be continuing to play here? Well, I'll give it a fair crack of the whip. I am disappointed at the lack of game lore and storyline, and the whole sandbox thing that predominates - but I think I can carve out some sort of character without upsetting too many people and find my own fun. I am not going to expect those I run into in chat to go into character to accommodate my thirst for storytelling and roleplay. I'll likely just restrict the rp I do to the fiction part of the forum and may be mails and just chat as the player behind the character with everyone in GC and AC. I accept the game for what it is and would not presume to tell others how to play their accounts here. To answer the question in the OP though - what you seek is not here. But it could be here in small doses if you can find the right crowd who want to rp such things - and who will risk their cities for the cause of that rp. The key will be to find players who don't get ooc attached to what they have built up, but instead view their cities as something overseen by their characters. And therefore the fate of the city depends on how they rp their character. Thus, if it ends up razed to the ground, then that is the end of a chapter in that characters story - and not something to get bitter about as a player. Finding players with such a sense of separation of player and character though may be hard. Does that makes sense? |
Posted By: Gilthoniel
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 09:11
| Yes, as observations go, it does make sense and is helpful in understanding what lies the behind the game and whether there is a purpose to the codex and narrative. I am still learning about the many aspects of the game but I forming an impression that it is an all singing all dancing project. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 09:59
| I like the fact that there's a tension between people who enjoy PvP and those who don't. I mean, do I wish everyone agreed with me? Maybe sometimes. But I think the world is richer for this not being dictated by the server but negotiated by the community. You are right about the roleplay -- while some players are very dedicated to roleplay, others merge in and out of roleplay or don't roleplay at all. I like that all of those options are fine and have a part in Illy -- although a hard-core enthusiast for one style or another might not enjoy Illy as much as a game that's centered around those aspects. |
Posted By: Zillee
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 17:18
| I see your point, and essentially that seems to be what this game is, with conflict arising from players who have different playstyles, rather than characters with motivations which drive their actions. Those hoping for a game that is centered around a story/lore into which they can immerse themselves may find it ultimately frustrating as the fantasy setting here is more or less irrelevant except as flavouring. |
Posted By: Gromsh
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 18:03
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We are working on lore and settings as a possibillity for people to RP against or with. We are also basing a lot of mysteries on ingame lore and factions which you can see in the Herald and on the forums. But ultimately wether or not to kill the orc factions off from an RP point of view or from a "they got cool stuff I want" is up to the players. We can't, nor do we want to, force people to base their decisions in Illyriad on the race they choose to play and how that race typically behaves in a fantasy setting. As for the "stuff" based on lore and content, and the lore and content it self? Its comming... soon (tm)  ------------- All we have learnt from history is that we haven't. |
Posted By: Truth
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 18:27
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As many have stated already, there is conflict in the game right now. The conflict is between personalities that differ from each other. This difference causes the dislike and hate to siege that player or players out of the game. Once the factions come out, conflict will become more diverse and dislike and hate will be based on which faction you favor etc... For the time being, this game is nothing but a war of personalities. |
Posted By: Koragg
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 14:39
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I didn't read the whole thread (and for that I apologize) but I can immediatly think of 2 other game worlds where orcs are good (or at least neutral and civilized). The first being World of Warcraft. The orcs in that game are civilized, and have a strong code of honour (their society reminds me of Klingons from Star Trek). They have a strong sense of loyalty to their allies. Just because they are at war with the humans, does not make them evil (the only truly evil playable races are the Gnomes and the Undead *IN THAT ORDER*, Gnomes are evil because they committed genocide on their own city. EDIT: And the Blood Elves, for enslaving the Naru to empower their priestly/paladin spells.) (EDIT: I want to point out that the orcs in Warcraft I and II were evil, as at that point in the timeline their only purpose was to kill humans at the behest of their demonic creators. Warcraft III and WoW, they had (mostly) broken free of that enslavement and went on to found a civilization by making allies with the Tauren, who themselves are True Neutral and remind me of Native American earth-centric preservers of nature) The second being the D&D campaign setting of Eberron. Orcs and Half-Orcs make up the majority of the druids in that setting, being preservers of natural balance and opposers of the Aberrant forces that lurk just outside of this reality that are trying to establish a foothold. In 3.5, it was a requirement for druids to be 'any neutral', which means the majority of orcs fall into one of Neutral Good, Chaotic Neutral, True Neutral, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Evil). Most druidic orc tribes are in the True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral range on average.
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Posted By: beauhindman
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 14:48
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Personally, I would love to see more roleplay. Roleplay helps people to avoid taking attacks so personally. If I am attacked, I will try to take it like I am being attacked during a game of Risk. I don't get angry and think the other person is a jerk, I simply think that they are playing the game. Just don't take it personally, and don't attack while sending real-life insults and jabs. Just have fun beating up each others armies. :) Beau
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Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 15:49
| same here +1 |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 17:34
lol you are THE crybaby of choice! haha ... i find it amusing, seriously.. -------------  my words on this forum are from me alone. DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 19:37
SO shortsighted of you, Kilo! He's only "roleplaying' a crybaby troll. In reality he's a cuddly cabbage patch kid... ;) |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 19:50
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I roleplayed as an Orc once.. I tried to get Lorre to remove his offensive forum picture because we can all agree Dwarfs kicking Orc A$$ is purely a work of fiction ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2011 at 02:43
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[02:39]*§ilent Sword punches AA in the face [02:39]<MidnightAngel> How are you? [02:39]<§ilent Sword> just seeing what will happen [02:39]<nwalex> quick and maybe stupid question: if someone sends me a caravan and the count is sayyy 3 does that mean there is three identical caravans comming? or it takes 3 to send what theyr sending me? [02:39]<MidnightAngel> other than bruised. [02:39]<AmrothAnguireal> easily dodges the blow from silient and takes his sword [02:40]<Moonlightwalker> it takes three to carry the load [02:40]<nwalex> okk [02:40]*§ilent Sword is a sword... [02:40]<nwalex> good point lol [02:40]<AmrothAnguireal> now just silent [02:40]*§ilent Sword cuts AA's hand [02:40]<AmrothAnguireal> lol [02:41]<AmrothAnguireal> wears gaunlets [02:41]*§ilent Sword whips out his shield and slides into a fighting stance [02:41]<AmrothAnguireal> picks up silent and sticks him in a rock [02:41]<MidnightAngel> .... typical boys [02:41]<AmrothAnguireal> let arthur pull you out [02:41]*Ashtar hugs tackles AA and SS [02:42]<AmrothAnguireal> utters binding spell so he is stuck fast [02:42]<nwalex> how do u do the role playing thing ??? [02:42]<AmrothAnguireal> ta da [02:42]<Drusus> Role play...pretend [02:42]<Drusus> Make believe same thing [02:42]*§ilent Sword flips up and is about to hit AA on the head with the rock, them succumbs to the hugtackle [02:42]<AmrothAnguireal> and hugs the beauty [02:42]<Moonlightwalker> type /me before you key in the action [02:42]<AmrothAnguireal> feels like Robin Hood [02:42]<Ashtar> Yay -- AA and SS hugs! Woo Hoo! [02:43]*§ilent Sword hugs Ash [02:43]<AmrothAnguireal> whew ashtar saved me BAM! Roleplaying... ------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM) |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2011 at 23:42
a example of my type of roleplaying.
------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
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