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trolls in Illyriad

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2142
Printed Date: 29 Sep 2020 at 11:44
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Topic: trolls in Illyriad
Posted By: Amroth
Subject: trolls in Illyriad
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2011 at 15:21
ok so it is understood that we foster the community. That said, there has been an increased number of trolls operating under noob aliases lately. That has precipitated this post...

This will be my position of record. I do not care how long you have been here, since the beginning or sinse yesterday. If you are willing to insult and insert inflammatory remarks to the chat with random aim and chance destruction prepare to have your cities razed and razed again. I will not tolerate insults and slander. I will respond with full action available. If anyone has a problem with this...I am sure I will find out soon enough. Gloves off for trolls and players who will summon up an alt just to cause chaos. This practice is indeed cowardly. and I deem them to be worms with no back bone at all. Anything I have to say to anyone will come from Amroth. Not some alt I created cause I lacked the sack to say what I wanted to with my own face. I am a conscientious player who tries to respect all in Illyriad. It has become obvious that not all players here are of that caliber. This is regrettable. 
Thoughts and feed back from Illy community would be appreciated.
Regards, Amroth Anguireal



Replies:
Posted By: Dhenna
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2011 at 15:22
Thumbs Up


Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2011 at 15:24
*whispers*  I see dead people trolls...

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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR



Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2011 at 16:14
Thumbs Up


Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2011 at 16:36
Dont see how anyone can disagree with this. But probably a good idea to use a forum thread as a reference point to the given players "troll factor" i.e. copying examples of the bad behaviour. I approve.


Posted By: mistwalker
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2011 at 16:55
I have to say there are a LOT of bullies in this game, some obvious and others pretending that they are something else when in reality they push people around just as much as the obvious "trolls"... I guess as long as you maintain a "wolf in sheep's clothing" strategy  its ok???  Illusion rules all here...or dillusion, not sure which is the better description....and major fact twisting....just my observations. 


Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2011 at 22:53
I wonder if I am considered a troll? Im probably half troll. Am I a bully?, probably only to the people I dislike and those I consider trolls


Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2011 at 03:30
Dont kill them! they just reappear! they also multiply like rabbits!

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http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin


Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2011 at 03:34

They are like rabbits! I love having a pet rabbit, now I need to get a pet troll!                                      starts making a trap to capture oneortwo?



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�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien


Posted By: Manannan
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2011 at 05:17
Originally posted by Amroth Amroth wrote:

Thoughts and feed back from Illy community would be appreciated.

Actually wanted to ask you about this earlier when we spoke in GC briefly before you posted this. Gets my backing Thumbs Up

Originally posted by Gemley Gemley wrote:

They are like rabbits! I love having a pet rabbit, now I need to get a pet troll!                                      starts making a trap to capture Lionz Heartz

Two points. 

1 You've done it again where there is no mention of LH for a while and you bring him up... That must be a serious secret bromance you guys have going...  And here was me thinking that LH only had eyes for Megan Fox you lucky devil you Wink LOL

2 I'm sorry you seem to have missed this but EOM Harry slayed the Queen Troll that was LH a few weeks back. You even missed the party we had afterwards.... I mean memorial.... Okay then I admit it was a party and there were lots of little people dancing around singing "Ding dong the witch is dead!" Beer Party


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Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!

"Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2011 at 06:11
Really debated whether I should reply here given my reputation.

Anyway, since when did I care about consequences? So why start now.

Here are my observations.

1.) I played WoW for many years, you had a "main" character or your various alts. I have always been of the opinion that you should talk from your "main" or whatever the illyriad equivalent is.

2.) Illyriad should be policed somewhat. What I mean here, is weaker players getting into the game should be protected. If you start a "fight" outside your weight class, at least have the jibbly bits to fight a higher "tiered" player or alliance rather than pick on some newbie. That is lame and screws the game over in the long run.

3.) With point two, the game should not be policed too much. This idea has been beaten to death, but let "weight classes" duke it out without threats of "LOLOL I CUD SMASH BOAT ALYENSES ON MAI OWEN"

4.) It is really easy to fling the label "troll" around ala McCarthyism. Several people like to use this term (troll) when someone says something they don't like or someone says something that disagrees with them. Let's not make this a witch hunt please.

Thats my viewpoint.

Otherwise, game on, use all the tools at your disposal to achieve the goals you have in this game. The metagame is a rich one and allows a lot more avenues than people would initially expect.




Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2011 at 14:00
Originally posted by Manannan Manannan wrote:

1 You've done it again where there is no mention of LH for a while and you bring him up... That must be a serious secret bromance you guys have going...  And here was me thinking that LH only had eyes for Megan Fox you lucky devil you Wink LOL

2 I'm sorry you seem to have missed this but EOM Harry slayed the Queen Troll that was LH a few weeks back. You even missed the party we had afterwards.... I mean memorial.... Okay then I admit it was a party and there were lots of little people dancing around singing "Ding dong the witch is dead!" Beer Party
i think you were joking but I only mentioned Lionz Heartz because he was the only one i could think of, ill change it if you want.
2nd, how come no one told me Lionz Heartz was dead!?Unhappy


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�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien


Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2011 at 18:01
Jude, you should note that your name was not mentioned at all, yet you felt as though you had to justify your actions.

Guilty conscience?


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Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Capricorne
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 00:39
?
Where did you see any justification Kurfist?
My english my be bad but I fail to see it so please enlight me.


Posted By: Capricorne
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 00:49
I'm not so often in gc so it's maybe why I don't see the real annoyance of troll there.

Anyway I must say that I'm surprised to read the remedy proposed here. I mean will you kill someone just because he spoke wrong to you? Really?
If it's just the literature you that you don't want to see, have you got the "block in chat" option?
And even if you don't use it there is a simple rule I saw somewhere: don't feed the troll!

If they are so "strong" it's because all of us feed them, answers them and so on. If we just ignore them they surely just die. (maybe I am too naive)

I must me kind of old fashion but I just can see any legitimate in someone who anwers by violence someone who just talk. Even in bad.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 01:09
Originally posted by Capricorne Capricorne wrote:

I'm not so often in gc so it's maybe why I don't see the real annoyance of troll there.

Anyway I must say that I'm surprised to read the remedy proposed here. I mean will you kill someone just because he spoke wrong to you? Really?
If it's just the literature you that you don't want to see, have you got the "block in chat" option?
And even if you don't use it there is a simple rule I saw somewhere: don't feed the troll!

If they are so "strong" it's because all of us feed them, answers them and so on. If we just ignore them they surely just die. (maybe I am too naive)

I must me kind of old fashion but I just can see any legitimate in someone who anwers by violence someone who just talk. Even in bad.


That is the best way to neuter trolls, but the temptation to try and "one up" the troll with a clever retort is too much for some to ignore.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 01:55
I'm not sure I approve of this thread really.

I have no love for obviouse trolling myself, but what you are suggesting here sounds alot like the inquisition. Starting random witch-hunts and such is inflammatory in its own way.

edit: agree with what capricorn said too - why all this attention for trolls? that is what they want.


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 02:26
I don't know why so many people are against attacking players in this community. What exactly is a good reason to attack a player? To have fun? No no! You're war mongering and much be sieged from the game (ironic way to deal with it really). Because someone said something highly offensive? No no! You're evil if you attack someone just because they attacked you with words! Lately I've even seen cases where someone outright attacks a player and people look down on them retaliating because they should "look for a diplomatic solution". It's no wonder why players quitting choose to go out with a bang. It's probably the only chance they'll get at actually using their army.

Frankly, if a troll wants attention I'd be happy to give them it. In the form of a siege engine.


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Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 02:28
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

I have always been of the opinion that you should talk from your "main" or whatever the illyriad equivalent is.


What if you have two "mains?"


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"Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM)
"SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM)


Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 02:41
Hey Brids the only time I have used my armys is to seige newbie attackers and trolls and i dont attack inactives or npcs so I dont use my army much, which is strange because i focus mostly on my military. I like the idea of being able to use armys more but i dont fancy seigeing others out of the game or starting big wars.

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�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 04:41
Capricorne, dont you see it? Kurfist wouldnt attack anyone just because they insulted him. You can verify this by insulting him again and again in GC.

He would attack only if you insult him and you are much smaller than him. Right Kurfist? Tongue

just kidding.. no malice towards anyone Big smile


Posted By: Capricorne
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 08:23
Love your reply Birds. I think that too.



Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 12:30
Originally posted by Amroth Amroth wrote:

ok so it is understood that we foster the community. That said, there has been an increased number of trolls operating under noob aliases lately. That has precipitated this post...

This will be my position of record. I do not care how long you have been here, since the beginning or sinse yesterday. If you are willing to insult and insert inflammatory remarks to the chat with random aim and chance destruction prepare to have your cities razed and razed again. I will not tolerate insults and slander. I will respond with full action available. If anyone has a problem with this...I am sure I will find out soon enough. Gloves off for trolls and players who will summon up an alt just to cause chaos. This practice is indeed cowardly. and I deem them to be worms with no back bone at all. Anything I have to say to anyone will come from Amroth. Not some alt I created cause I lacked the sack to say what I wanted to with my own face. I am a conscientious player who tries to respect all in Illyriad. It has become obvious that not all players here are of that caliber. This is regrettable. 
Thoughts and feed back from Illy community would be appreciated.
Regards, Amroth Anguireal
 
I have read this thread with interest. I wasn't going to comment until I saw that some of other posters seem to think that bulllies  are a far  more  frequent problem in chat than trolls. Let me be clear. By "bullies" I mean players with 2 or more cities who deliberately threaten to destroy a  newbe with a single town because the newbe said something that the bully didn't like.
 
Yes it is a problem and players would be far better served if the bullies were made to tone it down a bit.  Let those who claim to play with honour "apply it".
 
As for dealing with trolls, people who make insulting or inflammatory remarks. Leave that to the GM's .
 
They may have had a hand in the tizzy with LH and they claim to have shut down El T's latest accounts.  Pretty good huh?  Won't catch me though because I play by the rules Tongue


Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 17:56
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

Capricorne, dont you see it? Kurfist wouldnt attack anyone just because they insulted him. You can verify this by insulting him again and again in GC.

He would attack only if you insult him and you are much smaller than him. Right Kurfist? Tongue

just kidding.. no malice towards anyone Big smile



Well ander when you put it that way.. :p

How many times has Jude said on the forums and in global that I am easy to bait, does that not imply he wanted to war with me?

Why am I even on this thread anyway? This post will either be support by my "ahem" supporters, or be boo'ed out by Knights Templars.


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Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 18:16
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

Originally posted by Kurfist Kurfist wrote:

I'm not doubting you, I'm just verifying for others that the bit  with yourbestfriend is true.  Except the lapdog part, although I'm starting to ignore Judes posts all together.


No you are not, you are far too easy to bait.


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Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Thexion
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 10:35
lol somehow this fits to illyriad..


Posted By: Divine Redemption
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 13:05
I would have to say that I was never a troll in this game.  I was merely the opposition of the way the powers at be think.  My line of thinking was the opposite.  The fact I thought differently than the players leading powerful alliances, made me a troll in their eyes.  Players that were not in the know, felt they should just join the band wagon and call me a troll to fit in with the  community. 

Perception means everything.  Everyone perceives things differently through their set of eyes  and experiences.  The people that think the same, are the ones that have gone through the same experiences in life or in games rather.   These differences between experiences more or less is what brings conflict in game and life with people that have not gone through the same experiences.

My path in this game, my experiences, shaped a different perception of the game compared to a player that was in power and seemed to get their way most of the time.

I am not a follower, I am too smart to try to pretend to be something I am not.  I will go against the grain if I need to to prove a point.  I am only given one life to live on this world.  So no matter if it be in a game or life, I best put a stamp on where I was and to say that I gave it my all.

Those of you dislike me because I was not a follower, spoke up about too many issues, and was not mute.  Well to those people, I laugh at you.  Do you think in game of all things, I will follow any person that does not hold the values I hold dear?

The Spy Network was a way to allow players that had the misfortune of being bullied by these same players in power that like control at all costs.  This Spy Network was meant to last a life time and this Spy Network will last for a lifetime.  I brought this mission in for the players that had experienced misfortune in this game.  These players needed someone to stick up for them when no one else would.  Here is your chance to make a stand.  Unite with other players experiencing  the same things as you are.  Overtime you will be strong and the ones in power will be weak.  

Do you think because I have decided to retire from this game it will stop the revolution? You are wrong!  I was merely just one of many in this.  I can be replaced by someone else and I hope the players that replace me will accomplish so much more and create something that will be talked about forever.

I will always root for the underdog in life and in games.

Do not lose hope my friends, all of you hold the key, the key to turn the tide.

Based from the movie DUNE, there must always be change, so one can grow.  A person must experience new things in life and in games to awake the sleeper within. 

The sleeper must awaken!

And shall all the players that stand for what I believe in.  Make a stand!

Lionz Heartz




Posted By: King EAM
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 13:19
Originally posted by Silent/Steadfast Silent/Steadfast wrote:

Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

I have always been of the opinion that you should talk from your "main" or whatever the illyriad equivalent is.


What if you have two "mains?"

They are alts to each other.


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"It's hard to know until you're a Crow"


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 14:26
lol what was that Thexion?!! Big smile


Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 16:38
thexion what a disturbing yet funny video

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�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien


Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 17:22
That was a great video, don't let anyone tell you different.

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Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: BellusRex
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 00:33
As a newbie to Illyriad but with years of experience hosting tribes, clans, alliances in such meat grinders as TribalWars, Evony, NapWar, I have to say that this is by far the closest group of players to what I've looked for and how I and my alliances always played that I've ever found...

I can't abide bullies, in a game or real life. You can be an aggressive player, play up the RPG aspect in chat, and still play with decency and honor. There are all sorts of aspects to war, and war is my passion. That being said, what is the fun or challenge of attacking small players, weak players, or new players. Stealth and subterfuge all have their place, but it's easy to spot it as a strategy of play or as just another way to get over on someone. When does gamesmanship become sordid? Possibly when newbies are purposefully misled, set up, hounded out of the game simply because you can? 

Having said that, I would set out my style and intent in a war game, and I ask all of you in the community to call me out in any way you deem fit if I don't play by my own rules...

I initiate no attacks on active players smaller than myself...I will notify an opponent of impending hostilities if not readily obvious by circumstances...I will not break a promise or agreement without prior notice or for any reason that compromises my honor...I will aid all alliance members, allies, or anyone in need to my best ability...I don't lie, say anything I wouldn't say to the person being spoken of, nor instigate and encourage chat room feuds, fights, etc... How hard is it to honor your word, alliances, friendships?

I look forward to a long and happy time stomping around Illyriad...




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"War is the father of all things..."


Posted By: Amroth
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 05:22
Powerful thoughts which I absorbed and will consider. I do appreciate the responsible comments and To be honest I would have to say that I will reverse my stance on this and refrain form attacks on trolls. Some very honest ideas were stated and some have persuaded me that my previous policy would be in error and contrary to my general intent. While I would strongly discourage players from actively annoying others on Global Chat, I feel it would not be appropriate to attack them. My thanks to all who spoke their mind in response to the posted thread.
Regards, Amroth


Posted By: RatuJone
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2011 at 05:33
Seems to me an easy solution would be to change the ToS.......NO Alts!!! Single accounts only and banning if or rather when alts are discovered.Wink


Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2011 at 10:52
Originally posted by RatuJone RatuJone wrote:

Seems to me an easy solution would be to change the ToS.......NO Alts!!! Single accounts only and banning if or rather when alts are discovered.Wink
 Ratujone is right. This the simplest and most honest solution and yet it is the one which has been avoided by the Devs since the game was in its ealriest stages of development. 
 
THE GAME
Just as news editors like to create moral panics and folk devils to boost their tabloid's circulation so Illy's GM's have encouraged the labelling of trolls by categorising their tactics as "metagaming".
The use multiple accounts is not confined to "Trolls" but, in fact, is widespread throughout the game. Especially amongst alliance leaders who will tend to  "sit " more and more inactive accounts in order to maintain the alliance's rank. They have also been tempted to multi account with a view to influencing the outcome of Tournaments.  I have evidence on two longstanding alliances where this practise has obviously exceeded the permissable number of accounts controlled by one player. My guess is that the Devs must be aware of this also but, for their own reasons turn a blind eye to it or alternatively redefine the issues that come from it as "metagaming".
 
A return to the simple application of the rules and norms of browser games as suggested by RatuJone above would, I am sure, bring Illyriad back down to earth (pun) with a bump.  We can start returning Illyriad to the direct one player one account strategy game that we all want....
 
...but do the Devs have the integrity to do this across the board applying the rule in a uniform way???? 


Posted By: LauraChristine
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2011 at 13:11


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Cake


Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2011 at 16:17
Suggestions:
1. Link or merge forum accounts to game accounts (the current separation is just a technicality of two different login systems), then users will have reputation to consider.
2. Require users to link their accounts as belonging to the same real person, and make this part of ToS. Game rules to prevent in-game exploits are enforcible, corruptive meta-gaming isn't so easy if these links are available for inspection, and anyone found failing to declare links can face GM-Banhammer consequences.

It's unfortunate that we're thinking about ways to tackle troll/cheat problems, as it indicates that trust alone isn't enough in all cases.


Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 14:34
IF YOU GOTTA A PROBLEM WIV TROLLS LOOK NO FURVER

Just call 'Arry. He seen off that tossed piece of lettuce Aneirin and LH not once but twice and ....AND last time he got the girl into the bargain

http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/denmark_topic2460_page2.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/denmark_topic2460_page2.html

Originally posted by LauraChristine LauraChristine wrote:

I think I love you just a little bit Harry lol


PHOOAARR! GO ON MY SON!




Posted By: Nilock
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 06:52
Would people who raid players that had there protection end count as trolls?
cuz i really hate noob hunters.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 07:42
Originally posted by Nilock Nilock wrote:

Would people who raid players that had there protection end count as trolls?
cuz i really hate noob hunters.

In my opinion, generally no.

A troll is someone who has no intention of interacting with the game, but only of causing trouble.  (From wikipedia: an internet term for a person who, through willful action, attempts to disrupt a community or garner attention and controversy through provocative messages)

Raiding new players is a valid way of interacting with game mechanics, albeit one I think may be counterproductive to the growth of Illyriad because it may discourage new players from continuing with the game.  I also think it is legitimate to use game mechanics to inhibit other people's ability to attack players who cannot defend themselves, if one so chooses, both by providing education and resources to the new players themselves and by more direct intervention, depending on the situation.

It might be possible to be a troll by attacking new player in hopes of garnering attention and controversy.  In that case, a player who is attacking players just out of protection, or for example randomly sieging smaller players and boasting of these attacks to provoke a confrontation, could be seen as acting trollishly.

However, in my opinion, all uses of legitimate game mechanics should be given the benefit of doubt with regard to motivation; the line between metagaming and pure trollery is a very fine one.  Therefore, although I might have private thoughts about particular behaviors being engaged in primarily to garner attention and create controversy rather than for legitimate game purposes, I try to remember that my judgments are influenced by my own biases and life experiences.

In particular, I try to keep in mind the fundamental attribution error, which is "tendency to over-value  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition" rel="nofollow - dispositional  or personality-based explanations for the observed  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behaviors" rel="nofollow - behaviors  of others while under-valuing  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situation" rel="nofollow - situational  explanations for those behaviors." (Also wikipedia, although it corresponds to what I recall from my social psych texts.)  In other words, one's own experience of one's motivation might be that one was provoked to take a particular action, or that it was legitimate based on the game context, while another person might attribute the same action to a desire to start trouble or create controversy.


Posted By: <Squill>
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 14:57
OMG... Rill is still Illy's encyclopedia!

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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 16:46
Originally posted by Nilock Nilock wrote:

Would people who raid players that had there protection end count as trolls?
cuz i really hate noob hunters.


No - they might be griefers though.


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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Isabella Rayanne
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2012 at 04:56
Trolls. Horrid creatures. Give them pink socks and make them dance for their supper.

Beyond that, which might make sense to anyone that heard a convo on GC insults the other night, foul mouth creatures need to go.

:)



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