Approve of new log in?
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: The Caravanserai
Forum Description: A place to just chat about whatever takes your fancy, whether it's about Illyriad or not.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1942
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 16:28
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Approve of new log in?
Posted By: Kurfist
Subject: Approve of new log in?
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 03:56
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Vote now!
------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Replies:
Posted By: Manannan
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 04:12
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Kinda degraded to tabloid level here. Not 'What a fantastic piece of artwork, I see they've spent hours on it. I think it will help draw people (mostly teenage boys) to the game' Just a straight forward 'Yeah she's hot!' LOL ------------- Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either! "Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude |
Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 04:33
| i didnt even notice it. lol |
Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 04:40
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Thats the internet for you Mana
------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 07:27
| I think you are objectifying an Elfess who, in a heartbeat, could gut you from stem to stern...;) |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 09:11
| CAREPACKAGE! |
Posted By: Babbens
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 10:35
well, she is  no doubt, but I am still looking forward to the orc woman... |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 12:26
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well there's 7 yes votes... and 1 no vote belonging to myself. I thought Illy was classier than this: Don't get me wrong I have nothing against artwork of female characters but the image on the portal is swantily clad - basically just a set of breasts to draw immature teenage boys into the game, the same as any number of lame RPGs with semi-naked characters to draw idiots into the game. It is not an accurate representation of what players will find in the game and will not help Illy's player-base in the long-term. |
Posted By: Babbens
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 12:31
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Let them be lured.. the game will weed out the misfits. |
Posted By: Manannan
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 14:05
Pretty much the point I was trying to make. Don't think any of the female population of Illy has commented yet. I wonder how many opened the thread, saw the poll at the top and closed it straight back down in disgust? I haven't voted but will cast the same as you i think. ------------- Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either! "Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude |
Createure wrote:Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 14:12
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ey im immature!!! XD ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: larnalee
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 14:24
| Art is art... I reckon it could have been more appropriate but since when do guys take notice of the sensibilities of females? and yes Manannan without your comment on the fact I would indeed have just shut the thread again in disgust!!! and no I won't vote!! |
Posted By: Selissa
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 14:29
You will get a comment from one og Illy's female population then :) I voted "Yeah, she's hot!" because that was my first thought when I saw the new artwork. I don't find it offensive at all. But then again, everyone knows I have an affair with Iduna, so maybe my opinion doesn't matter... ------------- Selissa Proud member of Curse of the Wolves I'm an angel, honest! The horns are just there to keep the halo straight! |
Posted By: bartimeus
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 14:45
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I totally agree with creature's post. It's hot all right, awesome artwork, but it doesn't represent the game at all !!! I'd be more in favor for a background consisting of a parchement-yellow map with arrows representing multiple troop movement and dwarven runes (to symbolise pathfinding).
------------- Bartimeus, your very best friend. |
Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 15:37
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Wow illyriad is becoming more like evony evey day, any else notice that?
i mean that as a bad thing, whats next po@n on the home page?
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Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 19:29
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Arent we being a little touchy - the artwork IS masterfull, cant really blame the artist that fantasy and sex are becoming increasingly intertwined. How would girls feel if their representation was an overweight female bowlegged orc with bad case of a rash? Shes attractive and Illyriad will never be anything like Evony (I did make the comparison in GC as a jest) but really, there are NO plausible grounds for making that connection. And I think its great theres a girl on the front page, otherwise you might assume we'd be a bunch of passive aggressive bullies obsessed with asserting our power over one another - females tend to mellow that out a bit. So really - I think doing anything else than applaud the artist great skills and rejoice that Illyriad is moving forward in development is just plain tweaky and snooty. |
Posted By: Ryuuku
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 19:49
| No, we are not being a little touchy, we are a lot sick of this sort of gaming milieu. I am sorely disappointed in the devs for this development. Bottom line, it's demeaning to women. We have people here researching all sorts of medieval war machines, weapons, period details, cloaks, and then the only new female image is this? I can only imagine the clamor if a male character was dressed in such a patently ridiculous manner. Bikini armor for warring? Please, no, no, no, no!! |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 23:29
Dude, you've really misinterpreted what some of us have said. I DO appreciate good artwork (in terms of quality) and I am ALWAYS the first to offer my approval of new development and to support the dev team generally on GC etc. The main point of my post was that I think the new artwork is entirely misrepresentative of what people can expect in Illyriad... which is CRITICAL because the portal is the first thing anyone new to Illyriad will see, before they even think about signing up. The scantily clad nature of the female figure on the page gives it a very similar look to many other very poor RPGs/MMOs etc. churned out by big companies to milk pocket money from teenagers which will put off many more sensible players looking for a game that is interesting and different to the commercial crap out there, while at the same time attracting a whole bunch of players that will be expecting something different and who will go inactive after 3 minutes play-time - further accentuating the 'inactive cities' problem. edit:
Firstly: I think that is a generalisation that both men and women mightn't be too happy with. Secondly: Even if I believed your bit about women mellowing things out (which I don't) - it is obvious that the female on the front page wearing "a bikini" is basically just a sexual symbol and not a symbol of equality. The females on the ingame profile artwork are wearing more feasible clothing for example. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 02:24
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I'm actually inclined to lean towards Tord here. I respect and understand both perspectives but the underlying issues here is: Is it objectifying/sleazy etc. The answer would be no. As with everything there is a balance, this is well on the acceptable side imo. If what is posted ie a women with less rather then more is not acceptable then we enter into dangerous, subjective territory. What if we cover here waist? Well you can see her cleveage, what if we cover her cleveage? well you can see her neckline, what if we cover her neckline etc etc etc. The image has a sexual nature, but then again almost all will. It's by far and away acceptable in modern western culture. It is not lewd or overtly sexually suggestive. Is a women at the beach lewd or overtly sexually suggestive? Reading that it will ultimately determine the 'quality' or standard of player whom we ultimately receive here in Illy is drawing a long bow and slightly nonsensical. Lets leave this mole hill as is and not turn it into another mountain please people. |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 03:32
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95% or more of the games I discover on the internet I will not create an account for - I make my judgements on these games in less than 20 seconds by glancing over their homepage. If I see a scantily clad elf I will assume this game is like many other games that I don't like that use the same cheap advertising trick to appeal to a certain demographic - and I won't create an account. The fact is I know Illy and it's dev team are better than that, I wouldn't have discovered that if I never made an account in the first place - am I a total exception here? I think not, looking at the poll. Now I'm not trying to flame or kick up a fuss or anything, and I think I've laid out quite a reasoned argument - but as you can read from above: I think first impressions are VERY important which is why I kinda think this is an important issue to discuss. |
Posted By: Qaal
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 03:50
| Definitely disappointed with the pandering and lack of creativity. Chain mail bikinis were trite 30 years ago. Anyone else remember Dave Sim's Cerebus the Aardvark? The Red Sonja character pretty well cracked me up. And now she adorns the splash page. |
Posted By: Qaal
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 03:59
Make that "Red Sophia". Dang, I'm old.
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Posted By: kicking5251
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 04:20
I really want to see a orc woman so what if they are green so are aliens and how many awesome games have they made of them.....
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Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 04:43
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If people just judge a game by the look of a log in page or an ad, I pity that person . Ad's are meant to get your attention, such as Evony ad's get the attention of male minds everywhere. Once a person logs into illyriad they are in complete Awe. I have heard countless times of new players going "wow, this game has so much depth, im definitely going to keep playing". That was said a few hours ago by a newbie, who obviously saw the log in page but pushed on relentlessly. ------------- Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 07:02
Mate at the end of the day you're moving into subjective territory. You're basing your opinion against others, which is an un-satisfyable position. You're talking about scope, preference etc. Though in an opinion sense you may be subjectivly correct. But the road that leads to is one of eternal debate characterised by an end result of nothing. Your opinion is valid, but it is only that, an opinion, and Illyriad needs more scope to operate than that. PS. Damn you're a cluey gent. Shouldn't you be at the local battle-cruiser having a few too many Richard the thirds! |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 11:15
I don't think so - you touched on this before (the 'what is appropriate' question) - this is not the issue. Personally I'm not offended by a totally naked female or male or sexual acts or any other natural thing like that - the issue is not myself being offended by sexual material in general - it is the situation in which it is used here.
You're opinion is that my opinion carries less validity because it is only an opinion - and we should not hold opinions because they are only opinions and not made of firmer stuff - seems like shaky reasoning to me, and doesn't contribute to the discussion at hand. By your own reasoning your post is equally as invalid as mine? Tell me what else we have to hold a discussion with other than our opinions? @Kurfist: YES I do judge ALL games I visit by their advertisement before everything else - and then I judge them by their home page - and I assume every other person looking for a game to play do the same (with the exception of people who have a recommendation from a friend). Please explain to me how that is shallow or deserving of pity? Online games are not people. |
Posted By: Thexion
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 13:22
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I Feel quite indifferent about the page but I agree with createure in one point its not good to look like other games more unique style would be better. |
Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 14:54
| Now more people disaprove of the new login then the people who think she is hot, 11 to 9 |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 15:40
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In all fairness my reply might have come off a bit harsh, but I experience many forms of extreme political correctnes in my daily life and even though much of it has good reason it really makes me tired - Like Llyorn says - its a molehill, not a mountain. That said tho I have been drawing fantasy for well over 15 years, and nearly all the female elves I draw are scantily clad. Is this because I wish to objectify women? Is it because I think that sex is an essential part of fantasy? No. Its mainly because the traits I associate with elves are: civilised behaviour yet in symbiosis with nature (original natives of the land), meaning elves essentially would not wear much more than a loincloth unless there was a specific purpose for it. When I do cover certain areas on the female characters it is not because elves are bashful types imo (on the contrary), but simply that the nakedness would distract the beholder from the picture as a whole. Secondly I think (and this is very subjective I know) that the most defining trait for elves is grace. And maybe its just me, but the most graceful thing that I can think of in a fantasy context is actually the female body - Sorry if that is in some political way wrong. So I cant recognize the demeaning factor here - I would have drawn it exactly the same way, and not only that, were the elven girl fully armor clad from head to toe I would have thought of it as a bad representation of an elf. Ultimately Llyorn is right - Its all subjective how we percieve fantasy and where our limits lie, and mine are not at all exceeded in this case. This is nothing compared to the cleavage monster that is Evony, please consider if you are perhaps judging a little too harsh. Regards |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 15:49
I generalise - its my way of describing what goes on around me - whats the alternative Creature? And to answer this I can only speak from gaming experience. I played Ogame for well over 3 years - a VERY male dominated browser game. Thusly I think you would be very surprised of how harsh the tone was/is on the forum and how tyrannical the general attitude was in the game. This was considered a natural part of the challenge so you were expected to be rather thick-skinned. Illyriad even in spite of its trolls and arguments is a rosegarden in comparison. Anyway I think this is really all I have to say about this. |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 29 May 2011 at 16:25
Oh I absolutely agree that this is a molehill not a mountain, I think that doesn't mean we can't have a measured discussion about it though.  [I think perhaps sometimes we see people having arguments and/or getting emotional in gc/forum in Illyriad or other places and it discourages us from expressing our own differences of opinion and debating them... for fear that other people will put us into the same category as those that enjoy creating drama and arguing for the sake of it.] Sorry, going off topic a bit... but I've pretty much said all I wanted to above anyways. |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 00:52
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Imo, I agree with Creat that it's worthwhile to always share our opinions. That's how the community has a healthy dialogue and the Devs know what we think... But I'd have to slightly side with Tord on this one. I am not offended by her. I think she's striking. And I 100% believe that having many women in this game is one of the MAJOR positive differentiators that Illyriad has over other similar games. The community is simply so much richer with a good balance! Illy is growing. Does that mean they will do more Marketing? I would hope so! Otherwise they aren't pushing the game. I want Illy to have extra maps and continents and a million players... with all the new improvements and content that that extra revenue would allow the Devs to create!!! Can't think of anything more fun! And when you are Marketing, you want images that will be striking. This one is. Therefore, imo, effective. Does the splash page accurately describe Illy's huge depth of gameplay? No. Maybe there's something one could add to it, but I think everyone has been a little overly tainted by Evony's overly brash Marketing... K. |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 04:53
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i think we should target excuse me for saying an "older" group of people. sorry to say this but the picture eventho its looking good will attract most likely teenagers (im self on i like to think) and i am not in the mood to deal with 14 year olds who only see military in this game im terribly sorry for that but when i see it going in that direction i will launch preemptive strikes to make sure the threats are eleminated this is about the future of illyriad. hence my vote "no we are like evony now" ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 13:30
| wait im 14....... SPARE ME O GREAT LORRE |
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 08:46
I think that is a misleading comparison. The elf on the front page isn't at the beach. Her position on the front page is more akin to the hood of a convertible. And the fact remains that her attire is woefully ill-equipped for the setting she represents. These incongruities are sexually suggestive, and more so for having been conscious decisions directed by an artist as opposed to some natural happenstance. Also, a woman in a bikini wouldn't attract special attention at the beach, but she'd get kicked out of my local mall and any McDonalds. Why? Because they are G-rated zones and a beach is not. The acceptability at the beach is more like the acceptability of nudity in late-night TV programming. It doesn't mean it isn't lewd or overtly sexual. Personally, I'd just rather see women on the front page imbued with the same kind of characteristics the men enjoy, not necessarily related to physical stature. The male elf looked dangerous. The male human has striking eyebrows and an overall dominating/intimidating look. They're both bundled up against both weapons and the elements. And, of course, the Dwarves and Orcs remain wholly unrepresented. The Elf woman just look exposed and flirty. Maybe she's supposed to be a spy or seductress or something, but that doesn't really come through. Hidden forces try to blend in, not stand out. Why not instead show an older queen in thick Japanese-inspired silk cuts, with a scepter in hand and judgement in her eye? That would better represent the attitudes of this community. To me this isn't even a gender issue. It's not about how a woman is being portrayed but rather how an archetypal player is being portrayed. We're all Dukes and Regents and Squires in charge of our cities. Why would we identify with a character lacking even adequate armor, let alone authority and either publicly recognized position or innate power? |
Posted By: kicking5251
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 10:44
| I think honored mule summed it up pretty well... |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 16:10
| Hmm...Is there a rule against talking about petitions even if it's your own? Cause if there isn't, the home page seems a little ironic based on a response I got on a petition I sent a while ago... |
Posted By: Ryuuku
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 16:38
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Thank you, Honored Mule for your eloquent exposition of my exasperated point. |
Posted By: Clavius Vile
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 17:20
What was your petition? ------------- [18:24]<Johnny112> books are an advance resource. They're similar to, but not the same as books |
Posted By: Leungarific
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 04:52
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Female armor doesn't have to be skimpy. They could simply have a beautiful elf in full leather/chainmail armor, finely contoured to her curves, and yet not exposing unnecessary skin. Examples:    (Yes, I KNOW elves can't wear plate)  (Something <slightly> more fantasy-like)  Just my two cents... And a lot of pilfered images. ------------- Whence we cometh foreth youeth, youeth willeth knoweth iteth. - AnalrotsAnIStinkAlot |
Posted By: kicking5251
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 05:51
| I like the one with lots of guns...... |
Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 15:09
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What is she supposed to be? A Noble? General? Commander? Governor? Or a dressed up 'dancer'? Well, sure, this does bring in a particular demographic, but, it is also capable of turning away others. The pic is quality, yea, but it is generic, when you look at the draw of other games... showing scantly clad hot womenz and buff-ish guys in full armor. EDIT: Also... dang tree-hugging elves!
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Posted By: Mathilda
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 08:04
| The new log in is disappointing. Where is the elven woman's armour - she certainly isn't wearing it! Make her outfit more realistic! If you're going to have her revealing so much body, let's see the same on the male warrior. |
Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 09:03
| No. I don't like the log in. |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 03:14
LMAO!! Freakin' Hilarious man!!!  ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 03:36
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mhe. its artistic. i like thinking that the elven chick is some kind of diplo unit... a spy, probably an advanced one. if i was a human or an elf, i would show her my whole kingdom and far more than that ... why all the hate against such great hand drawn piece of art? |
Posted By: Thexion
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 14:55
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I hate far more those new screaming red login and register buttons. |
Posted By: Sheogorath
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 15:52
lol those are awful ------------- =Colonialism At Its Finest= |
Posted By: Clavius Vile
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 21:56
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I just noticed that, perhaps a new thread for those specifically lol. But yeah I dislike those too. ------------- [18:24]<Johnny112> books are an advance resource. They're similar to, but not the same as books |
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 23:10
WANT. Fantasy has a serious shortage of ugly people, especially protagonists. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2011 at 00:06
Maybe we get get Kumo to post a self portrait?  |