Rank vs Score - What can we learn about progress?
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: Technology & data
Forum Description: Discussions on data dumps, downloads, and third party applications.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1930
Printed Date: 16 Apr 2022 at 21:07
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rank vs Score - What can we learn about progress?
Posted By: Albatross
Subject: Rank vs Score - What can we learn about progress?
Date Posted: 22 May 2011 at 13:59
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I've just done a plot of about 30 points, comparing 'Rank' against 'log_10 (Score)' in the Global Rankings, for Rank above 4000. The resulting plot is very close to a straight line. When ascending the Rank sequence, the line continues fairly straight, with players getting a score boost at around Rank 3000. Above the 250th Rank, player's scores exceed the pattern of the previous ranks, and start climbing. These guys have found some 'critical mass' and have exceeded the 'geometric progression' results of the other players. Above 80th rank, it's obvious, with scores 2x the expected score. I think this shows that there's 'something special' that can be pulled out of the hat when players reach a high level (scoring over 150 million), which not all players find. I would have expected the reverse: a bunching of scores at the top, where they reach the achievement limits of the game. There are lots of ways to read the data (including finding fault with the use of Rank vs score, and the inclusion of dormant players), mostly interpreting the distribution of player ability or the point at which a player might become bored with the game and abandon it (dare I suggest such an outcome :o), or even that the highest scores are from opportunist players who started Illyriad in its earliest days and that the top ranks will eventually even out. I'll watch replies with interest. Finally, this all becomes moot if any tweaks are made to game balance, or new features are introduced. |
Replies:
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 22 May 2011 at 18:56
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Alot of the rankings are meaningless Alba: there are ways of unfairly manipulating many of them to obtain enormous scores - and many players have spent time doing this - time wasted in my opinion because I'm sure that rankings will get an overhaul at some point. Several of the categories can be easily manipulated to gain huge scores, in particular trade, diplomacy and magic, but also some others to an extent. For example my personal trade score is currently 35M (rank 164) - I've gained that by doing genuine trading throughout the life of my account - I could easily set up a second account and bounce fake trades around to increase that - In a single fake trade I could gain 80M point. Notice the two accounts in the same alliance at the top of the trade ranks with 35 Trillion points each? That will be one sad person shifting gold back and forward between the two. |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 02:07
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Don't forget magic rank! all you have to do is cast any spell that can have mana added to it on any target, and use a lot of exra mana, and your score goes way up! Easy for those people with 100 mil or more of mana. And population is easily done using prestige, but that can get expensive to race to the top!
And my trade rank is all trades with other people too! and I'm #11! ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 11:15
I wasn't aware of this. If there is unfair manipulation which renders the ranking system meaningless then this is quite serious. I would like to read the GM's comment on this issue.
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Createure wrote:Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 11:31
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Well, we've already commented on the trade issue; all trade scores will be reset with the Trade v2 release. http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/update-26nov10-trade-v2-part-1_topic1313_post10976.html#10976 Other issues we'll look into. |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 11:33
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The ranking system isn't completely meaningless - the top players in Illy are generally at the top of the ranks. A few things need tweaking I agree, but to be honest: Manipulating ranks gives players 0 ingame advantage - it is just a number in a list - and anyone who knows about the ranking system can spot the people who manipulate quite easily anyways. I don't play for the leaderboard anyways, there are much more fun things. If the devs fix the ranking system I won't complain but I think there are many other things more worthy of development time first. |
Posted By: Tinuviel's Voice
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 14:15
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Imho, what really counts (at least for the time being) is the attack/defense rankings. For example, I rank #2 in Tech. Err....so what? |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 15:20
Exactly the same thing with Quest. I believe population ranks currently have some role to play alongside attack/defence though. (best economic powerhouse accounts versus best military powerhouses). |
Posted By: scottfitz
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2011 at 22:36
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Even population is extremely deceptive as a score, with those of us at the top pushing our populations up to unsustainable levels in order to qualify for a 10th town, with the intention of immediately reducing our populations back to useful levels, we will be in the position of dramatically falling in the standings as we are getting significantly more powerful! |
Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2011 at 15:03
| damn spammers. |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2011 at 15:20
dude, could you please avoid those orange advertisements?
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Posted By: liberty6
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 06:00
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i get alot of my score from trade. i sell to someone. i finance my army through trade lol
------------- whats happened to the world? if intelegent life came to earth is RL would they consider us intelligent or not? probably not!!!! |
Posted By: Innoble
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 22:25
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I made a graph by taking the topmost player of 100 pages somewhat evenly spread through the ranks (from rank 1 to 10k). Two versions: One where the scale is logarithmic and another where just the log of the score is shown and the ranks go from high to low. Use the slider to see the whole graph. This second plot shows how the line is slightly steeper in the beginning where players are fed with resources. Then it is linear for a long time. This might suggest that ordinary Illy growth is simply exponential, but conclusions are difficult to draw since the horizontal axis shows the rank and is not a time-axis. The top-players in every game always stand out which is why the line becomes steeper again near the top. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/illyriadscore.gif/" rel="nofollow">  Uploaded with http://imageshack.us" rel="nofollow - ImageShack.us
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