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King's 2nd Tournament - Bloodthirst For Knowledge

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Tournament II - Bloodthirst For Knowledge
Forum Description: 2nd Tournament - Details, progress, reports & awards
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1776
Printed Date: 22 Oct 2019 at 18:34
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: King's 2nd Tournament - Bloodthirst For Knowledge
Posted By: Illyriad Admin
Subject: King's 2nd Tournament - Bloodthirst For Knowledge
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 15:15
BLOODTHIRST FOR KNOWLEDGE -
THE KING'S SECOND TOURNAMENT

His Majesty King Sigurd of the Council of Illyria is pleased to announce a One Month Tournament starting immediately, with the main aim of improving our knowledge of the World.

A new Museum of Natural History has been built at Centrum and has been staffed by biologists and naturologists from the Empirium. The only thing they lack are a wide variety of specimens from the various creatures that inhabit the lands of Illyria.

His Majesty bids all the Lords of Illyria to send their armies far and wide to slay these creatures. When your army slays each group of beasts there is a chance that your troops can retrieve prime anatomical specimens. The more beasts that are present at a location, the more likelihood that usable remains can be retrieved.

Your army will return to your home town as usual, carrying the specimens and these will be visible in your town's http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/#/Town/Inventory - Inventory . The specimens cannot be traded or otherwise transported away from a town at this time, as such an endeavour might damage them and render them useless to the Museum!

At Midday on Wednesday, May 11th the tournament will end, and highly-trained transporters from the Illyria Trade Council will collect all those specimens that are held in each Lord's town.

As this is a mighty work of knowledge to benefit the Kingdom as a whole, His Majesty has forbidden the theft of these specimens from player towns for the duration of the tournament - although his military advisors suggest that Lords might certainly use some more cunning and underhand tactics to hamper their competitors' efforts.

There will, of course, be prizes for winning the tournaments' various categories, and these prizes are designed to encourage individual Lords as well as Alliance competition.

The currently leading Lords and Alliances in each category are available on the http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Tournaments - Tournaments page.

His Majesty eagerly anticipates these specimens and the results of the valuable research into their possible uses, and bids every Lord and Alliance the best of luck in this endeavour.




Replies:
Posted By: Illyriad Admin
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 15:15
Tournament Closed!

Prizes to be distributed shortly.

HOW TO PARTICIPATE
It's quite simple - go any kill NPC units anywhere on the map.  Kill them all without mercy or quarter and bring back the best quality anatomical specimens.

Killed NPC units will "drop" anatomical specimens which your armies will automatically collect and bring back home to your home town, automatically delivering them to your Town Inventory on their return. 

You can see what your soldiers have collected by viewing the Troop Movement page (whilst they are in motion).

You can see what specimens your town has by viewing the Town Inventory, which is accessible via a satellite button on the City Map main icon.

You can see your progress against other players and/or alliances on the Tournaments page which is accessible via a satellite button on the World Map main icon.


THE PRIZES

There are 5 major Prize Categories: 2 of which are Alliance categories, and 3 of which are Individual categories.

Players in an Alliance automatically participate in all 5 categories (so long as they retrieve at least one specimen for the alliance total), whilst players not in an alliance only participate in 3 categories.

There is also a general reward for every player who collects any anatomical specimens during the tournament.

ALLIANCE PRIZE - LARGEST COLLECTION
The Top 3 Alliances that gather the most total creature anatomical specimens (of any kind) will receive the following rewards for each participating member of the alliance:
  • 1st Place: 150 Prestige and 15 Elite Praetorian Guard units
  • 2nd Place: 100 Prestige and 10 Praetorian Guard units
  • 3rd Place: 50 Prestige and 5 Praetorian Guard units

ALLIANCE PRIZE - MOST COMPLETE UNIQUE COLLECTION
The Top 3 Alliances that gather the most complete specimen collection of different creature anatomical specimens will receive the following rewards for each participating member of the alliance:
  • 1st Place: 150 Prestige and 15 Elite Praetorian Guard units
  • 2nd Place: 100 Prestige and 10 Praetorian Guard units
  • 3rd Place: 50 Prestige and 5 Praetorian Guard units

INDIVIDUAL PRIZES - LARGEST COLLECTION

The Top 3 Players that gather the most total creature anatomical specimens (of any kind) will receive the following rewards:
  • 1st Place: 300 Prestige and 50 Elite Praetorian Guard units
  • 2nd Place: 200 Prestige and 30 Elite Praetorian Guard units
  • 3rd Place: 100 Prestige and 10 Elite Praetorian Guard units

INDIVIDUAL PRIZES - MOST COMPLETE UNIQUE COLLECTION
The Top 3 Players that gather the most complete specimen collection of different creature anatomical specimens will receive the following rewards:
  • 1st Place: 300 Prestige and 50 Elite Praetorian Guard units
  • 2nd Place: 200 Prestige and 30 Elite Praetorian Guard units
  • 3rd Place: 100 Prestige and 10 Elite Praetorian Guard units

INDIVIDUAL PRIZES - GREATEST HUNTERS

Each individual who retrieves the greatest number of creature anatomical specimens from each different type of creature (eg Rats, Scritchers, Bears etc) will receive the following reward:
  • Each 1st place winner: 100 Prestige and 10 Praetorian Guard units.
This category means that there is an individual winner for wolves, a winner for rats, a winner for mammoths etc - based on the total number of anatomical specimens you collect.

GENERAL REWARD
At the end of the tournament, King Sigurd's representatives will remove all anatomical specimens from all players in the game, and will compensate each player 10 Gold pieces for each single item taken.


THE TOURNAMENT RULES, SMALL PRINT
  • The Tournament runs until Midday Server Time (GMT+1) on Wednesday May 11, 2011.

  • Anyone who kills NPC units and receives an anatomical drop is automatically a participant, regardless of whether they are in an alliance or not.

  • Thief units are unable to steal these anatomical items.

  • Items you retrieve whilst you are in an alliance count toward both your Alliance place on the Leaderboard as well as your Individual place on the leaderboard. 

  • If you leave an alliance during the tournament, your contribution to your old Alliances' total is not transferred with you; it remains with the alliance you were in when you retrieved the item.  This is to prevent last-minute alliance player shuffling to guarantee an alliance victory.

  • Destroying or capturing a player's town does not destroy or capture their anatomical inventory - this is under the King's protection as a Scientific Endeavour.

  • NPCs will only drop items if attacked fully (ie Attack stratagem, or an Occupy stratagem; but not a Raid stratagem)

  • In the unlikely event of a tie, the winner will be dictated by his or her success in the other category.  ie If 2 players tie for "most complete unique collection" then the winner will be the one who has the larger collection in the "largest collection" category.  For the "Hunter" category, total body parts collected from all animals will be the decider.  In the *highly* unlikely event that this is still a tie, all parties will receive the prize reward.

We wish you the best of luck.

SC



Posted By: Beengalas
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 18:09
Instead of "first", I'll go with "love".

Love! :)


Posted By: Fateful Ending
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 10:58
Ok, so i just killed 5.2k spiders (a legion) and got 3 parts, isn;t that a bit miserly? Cry


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 11:13
Originally posted by Fateful Ending Fateful Ending wrote:

Ok, so i just killed 5.2k spiders (a legion) and got 3 parts, isn;t that a bit miserly? Cry


That's just *very* unlucky in terms of numbers; although it might not be as unlucky as you think in terms of uniqueness.

Bear in mind that this tournament has two definite parts - total parts collected and most unique parts collected.

The more dangerous / larger the NPC spawn, the more chance you have of getting both more different types of drop as well as more of each item that drops.

It is random, for sure, but is weighted by the difficulty of the spawn.

Regards,

SC


Posted By: Beengalas
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 12:14
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Originally posted by Fateful Ending Fateful Ending wrote:

Ok, so i just killed 5.2k spiders (a legion) and got 3 parts, isn;t that a bit miserly? Cry


That's just *very* unlucky in terms of numbers; although it might not be as unlucky as you think in terms of uniqueness.

Bear in mind that this tournament has two definite parts - total parts collected and most unique parts collected.

The more dangerous / larger the NPC spawn, the more chance you have of getting both more different types of drop as well as more of each item that drops.

It is random, for sure, but is weighted by the difficulty of the spawn.

Regards,

SC

I also destroyed a legion of npc, over 5k spiders. Which cost me almost 5k tier 2 cavalry (attacked with almost 11k). This gave me rougly 25 items and of four different kind, but still at a HUGE cost, i did get +20k experience and entire 130k gold. Not worth it at all imo.

After this I have splitted my army in 5 parts and I have made some attacks on pack and lower, and I have got between 1-5 items on every attack with no loses basically.

At this moment, this tournament encourage attacking low-pop npcs and avoid the big one. But shouldn't "legion of NPCs" give more reward since it is so much more damn costly?


Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 12:59
Originally posted by Beengalas Beengalas wrote:


Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:


Originally posted by Fateful Ending Fateful Ending wrote:

Ok, so i just killed 5.2k spiders (a legion) and got 3 parts, isn;t that a bit miserly? Cry
That's just *very* unlucky in terms of numbers; although it might not be as unlucky as you think in terms of uniqueness.Bear in mind that this tournament has two definite parts - total parts collected and most unique parts collected.The more dangerous / larger the NPC spawn, the more chance you have of getting both more different types of drop as well as more of each item that drops.It is random, for sure, but is weighted by the difficulty of the spawn.Regards,SC

I also destroyed a legion of npc, over 5k spiders. Which cost me almost 5k tier 2 cavalry (attacked with almost 11k). This gave me rougly 25 items and of four different kind, but still at a HUGE cost, i did get +20k experience and entire 130k gold. Not worth it at all imo.
After this I have splitted my army in 5 parts and I have made some attacks on pack and lower, and I have got between 1-5 items on every attack with no loses basically.
At this moment, this tournament encourage attacking low-pop npcs and avoid the big one. But shouldn't "legion of NPCs" give more reward since it is so much more damn costly?


I agree with you on that.

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HELLS COMING WITH ME YOU HEAR, HELLS COMING WITH ME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynKoZD-sFi4&feature=related


Posted By: McFarhquar
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 13:00
Are stats for Elite Praetorian Guards available anywhere?


Posted By: waylander69
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 13:09
I agree, it looks you are getting more of a reward for hitting small groups than you do for larger groups...


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 13:39
Originally posted by Beengalas Beengalas wrote:

At this moment, this tournament encourage attacking low-pop npcs and avoid the big one.

Random is... well... random, even when weighted.

But if this gives the feeling that we therefore have a tournament that means that the smaller players in the game have a darn good chance of winning in the 3 individual categories by concentrating on the smaller spawns (but being very proactive and hunting them out, or very selective and only hunting one particular beastie, or whatever...), then I think it's a uniquely awesome piece of tournament design, so hurrah for us! Wink

SC


Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 13:43
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:


Originally posted by Beengalas Beengalas wrote:

At this moment, this tournament encourage attacking low-pop npcs and avoid the big one.
Random is... well... random, even when weighted.But if this gives the feeling that we therefore have a tournament that means that the smaller players in the game have a darn good chance of winning in the 3 individual categories by concentrating on the smaller spawns (but being very proactive and hunting them out, or very selective and only hunting one particular beastie, or whatever...), then I think it's a uniquely awesome piece of tournament design, so hurrah for us! WinkSC


When you put it that way I guess I like the fact the smaller mobs give more awards.

The tournament design is fine the way it is now.

Also, do you plan on having an alliance vs alliance tournament again?

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HELLS COMING WITH ME YOU HEAR, HELLS COMING WITH ME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynKoZD-sFi4&feature=related


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 13:48
Originally posted by Lionz Heartz Lionz Heartz wrote:


Also, do you plan on having an alliance vs alliance tournament again?

Yes, there will definitely be alliance vs alliance tournaments in the future.

SC


Posted By: Attila the Hun
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 14:21
If I may inset my person in to this discussion. While the tournament in nice, and I and some members are participating, those with larger armies, the players who have been in the game longer will be the ones winning. 

They have the ability to train hundreds of soldiers as the weeks go by, mass produce equipment, have proper taxation for said soldiers.

The only  "Win" i and my members will receive from this, is a few levels to our commanders, from attacking all the npc's.


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It's just a game. :)


Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 14:58
I have one account out of the alliance atm.
If I move it in again, will those parts be lost to the alliance?
As it is only clarified for switching allies...


     ||   Thanks, SC  ||
     V                       V


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 15:06
Originally posted by Hora Hora wrote:

I have one account out of the alliance atm.
If I move it in again, will those parts be lost to the alliance?
As it is only clarified for switching allies...


Hi Hora,

Items collected always count to your player (individual) total
Items collected whilst you are in an alliance count towards that alliances' total
Items collected whist you are not in an alliance do not count toward that alliances' total
Moving into or out of alliances does not move your Individual total-to-date into or out of that alliance

Regards,

SC


Posted By: Beengalas
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 15:14
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Originally posted by Beengalas Beengalas wrote:

At this moment, this tournament encourage attacking low-pop npcs and avoid the big one.

Random is... well... random, even when weighted.

But if this gives the feeling that we therefore have a tournament that means that the smaller players in the game have a darn good chance of winning in the 3 individual categories by concentrating on the smaller spawns (but being very proactive and hunting them out, or very selective and only hunting one particular beastie, or whatever...), then I think it's a uniquely awesome piece of tournament design, so hurrah for us! Wink

SC

On the contrary, this design will make it harder for the lower populated players to participate in the tournament. Consider the current design: it gives you more to zerging low populated npcs. And therefore the larger players will avoid the huge NPCs armies out there.

Lets take my area and see how much of a chance the low pop villages around me have:

I am a paying player (prestige) and at the current moment I got, even after the loss, 13k tier 2 cavalry splitted in two cities. And now I use 5 armies in both, meaning I got 10 quick armies to hunt down NPCs. And I go for the low pop. Also, I started training 10k tier 2 infantry, and I expect having 20-25 armies fully equipped for dealing with most NPCs in this area within the week and it will grow bigger the further in the tournament.

This is zerging and it will leave very little room for the low-pop players to actually be able to get NPCs they can deal with. And it ruins the low-pop players chance of enjoying the tournament, just because their target is more rewarding than what would be seen as my target.

Bigger target should really equals bigger awards. And if you want to give the non-paying players a chance of actually getting something: split the tournament into divisions.

One division for 1-500 pop, one for 501-1500 and so on. Same goes for alliances. This will create competition between equals instead of ScottFitz that is ranked 6 in pop and only a handful can compete with him.

Edit:
Secondly, this design also goes against the general design of Illyriad. The one that Massive commented on as a good thing. Normally, you can take your time and doesn't have to worry about log in twelve times a day and four times a night to survive. Things take time and that is what we all have got used to and prefer it. This tournament however, isn't going to be about that what-so-ever. If you want to win this, be very big and attack ALOT, I mean, A - LOT.

Last tournament was about tactics, decisions and timing. It required very little extra time really and was more tactical. It draw several of my alliance members back into the game. However, this tournament alienates them as it suddenly becomes very time-consuming.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 15:28
Originally posted by Beengalas Beengalas wrote:

On the contrary, this design will make it harder for the lower populated players to participate in the tournament. Consider the current design: it gives you more to zerging low populated npcs. And therefore the larger players will avoid the huge NPCs armies out there.

Lets take my area and see how much of a chance the low pop villages around me have:

I am a paying player (prestige) and at the current moment I got, even after the loss, 13k tier 2 cavalry splitted in two cities. And now I use 5 armies in both, meaning I got 10 quick armies to hunt down NPCs. And I go for the low pop. Also, I started training 10k tier 2 infantry, and I expect having 20-25 armies fully equipped for dealing with most NPCs in this area within the week and it will grow bigger the further in the tournament.

This is zerging and it will leave very little room for the low-pop players to actually be able to get NPCs they can deal with. And it ruins the low-pop players chance of enjoying the tournament, just because their target is more rewarding than what would be seen as my target.

Bigger target should really equals bigger awards. And if you want to give the non-paying players a chance of actually getting something: split the tournament into divisions.

One division for 1-500 pop, one for 501-1500 and so on. Same goes for alliances. This will create competition between equals instead of ScottFitz that is ranked 6 in pop and only a handful can compete with him.


I'm not suggesting that a small player is likely to win against a larger player in the total or unique categories - but isn't that an entirely natural situation?

I do think, however, that smaller players have a good chance of winning the individual Hunter categories if they concentrate on one type of animal - or especially are located in an area where unusual animal types spawn.  I mean, there are animals out there still that not one player has killed yet, and it is in these categories that I believe smaller individual players can shine. 

At the end of the day, the player (army speed inclusive) closest to the spawn that they want who is quickest off the mark will get the kill and the drop - not the largest player.

Most large players have grouped their cities into certain parts of the world, and they are therefore - by nature of distance - going to have trouble winning many of the Hunter categories for beasts that aren't in biomes near them.  Geographic location will certainly have an advantage in the Hunting categories, and a small player has an advantage over a large player in this once we re-allow moving capital cities (which will be back shortly) if they choose to relocate.

In regards to other suggestions, thank you - they're noted for future tournaments.

Regards,

SC


Posted By: Beengalas
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 15:34
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Originally posted by Beengalas Beengalas wrote:

On the contrary, this design will make it harder for the lower populated players to participate in the tournament. Consider the current design: it gives you more to zerging low populated npcs. And therefore the larger players will avoid the huge NPCs armies out there.

Lets take my area and see how much of a chance the low pop villages around me have:

I am a paying player (prestige) and at the current moment I got, even after the loss, 13k tier 2 cavalry splitted in two cities. And now I use 5 armies in both, meaning I got 10 quick armies to hunt down NPCs. And I go for the low pop. Also, I started training 10k tier 2 infantry, and I expect having 20-25 armies fully equipped for dealing with most NPCs in this area within the week and it will grow bigger the further in the tournament.

This is zerging and it will leave very little room for the low-pop players to actually be able to get NPCs they can deal with. And it ruins the low-pop players chance of enjoying the tournament, just because their target is more rewarding than what would be seen as my target.

Bigger target should really equals bigger awards. And if you want to give the non-paying players a chance of actually getting something: split the tournament into divisions.

One division for 1-500 pop, one for 501-1500 and so on. Same goes for alliances. This will create competition between equals instead of ScottFitz that is ranked 6 in pop and only a handful can compete with him.


I'm not suggesting that a small player is likely to win against a larger player in the total or unique categories - but isn't that an entirely natural situation?

I do think, however, that smaller players have a good chance of winning the individual Hunter categories if they concentrate on one type of animal - or especially are located in an area where unusual animal types spawn.  I mean, there are animals out there still that not one player has killed yet, and it is in these categories that I believe smaller individual players can shine. 

At the end of the day, the player (army speed inclusive) closest to the spawn that they want who is quickest off the mark will get the kill and the drop - not the largest player.

Most large players have grouped their cities into certain parts of the world, and they are therefore - by nature of distance - going to have trouble winning many of the Hunter categories for beasts that aren't in biomes near them.  Geographic location will certainly have an advantage in the Hunting categories, and a small player has an advantage over a large player in this once we re-allow moving capital cities (which will be back shortly) if they choose to relocate.

In regards to other suggestions, thank you - they're noted for future tournaments.

Regards,

SC

I was under the impression that there was two goals. One is that just the cheer number of things, and the other was the cheer number of different things. But there is also one that is for each category, eg. spiders and bears? If so, cool. But I still find my critique in its right place, but its a matter of opinions I guess.

I edited my post, but you wrote your post at the same time so I will point to it in hope for some respons on that. :)


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 15:38
Originally posted by Beengalas Beengalas wrote:

But there is also one that is for each category, eg. spiders and bears? If so, cool.


Yes, very much so:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:


INDIVIDUAL PRIZES - GREATEST HUNTERS
Each individual who retrieves the greatest number of creature anatomical specimens from each different type of creature (eg Rats, Scritchers, Bears etc) will receive the following reward:
  • Each 1st place winner: 100 Prestige and 10 Praetorian Guard units.
This category means that there is an individual winner for wolves, a winner for rats, a winner for mammoths etc - based on the total number of anatomical specimens you collect.


Regards,

SC


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 15:47
Originally posted by Beengalas Beengalas wrote:


Edit:
Secondly, this design also goes against the general design of Illyriad. The one that Massive commented on as a good thing. Normally, you can take your time and doesn't have to worry about log in twelve times a day and four times a night to survive. Things take time and that is what we all have got used to and prefer it. This tournament however, isn't going to be about that what-so-ever. If you want to win this, be very big and attack ALOT, I mean, A - LOT.

Last tournament was about tactics, decisions and timing. It required very little extra time really and was more tactical. It draw several of my alliance members back into the game. However, this tournament alienates them as it suddenly becomes very time-consuming.


The first tournament was a tournament where only alliances could participate and there was little chance for a smaller alliance to win because largest number of units on a square essentially equated to victory (be that achieved by better strategic choices, more friends, co-ordinated attacks or whatever... it was still largely a numbers game). Nothing wrong with that, but this tournament is different!

In this tournament, anyone can participate with a decent chance of winning something by choosing a winnable category based on their location and the spawns around them and then putting some effort in to win without having a massive army or being part of a large alliance.

I say... more power to the smaller player who is willing to put some effort in to "beat" the 'less hungry' big boys, given that the smaller players can't compete on army size!

Regards,

SC


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 15:54
Tournament has once again got me MUCH more active. Outside of tournament I normally log in once every 3-4 day max. No one is forcing me to participate and I'm competing more for the sake of competition than for the rewards.

IMO this tournament doesn't go against the spirit of Illyriad, it is totally in keeping with the spirit of Illyriad. Nobody is forced to participate in this competition and anyone who choses not to, or is forced not to by time constraints, will not find themselves at a big disadvantage. They will lose out on a chance at some Prestige and some temporary 1 off units, not game-changing rewards. Prestige is specifically designed by the dev team to be a nice perk, but not essential for players to enjoy the game. Infact I reckon a top player who avoided this competition might suddenly find themselves tens of thousands of troops stronger than their nearest enemies/allies in a month from now, a potentially much bigger advantage than anything the tourny rewards could achieve.

I say a big thumbs up to the team, who have once again delivered an exceptionally well timed, well designed and unique piece of gameplay. Clap


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 16:19
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

Tournament has once again got me MUCH more active. Outside of tournament I normally log in once every 3-4 day max. No one is forcing me to participate and I'm competing more for the sake of competition than for the rewards.

IMO this tournament doesn't go against the spirit of Illyriad, it is totally in keeping with the spirit of Illyriad. Nobody is forced to participate in this competition and anyone who choses not to, or is forced not to by time constraints, will not find themselves at a big disadvantage. They will lose out on a chance at some Prestige and some temporary 1 off units, not game-changing rewards. Prestige is specifically designed by the dev team to be a nice perk, but not essential for players to enjoy the game. Infact I reckon a top player who avoided this competition might suddenly find themselves tens of thousands of troops stronger than their nearest enemies/allies in a month from now, a potentially much bigger advantage than anything the tourny rewards could achieve.

I say a big thumbs up to the team, who have once again delivered an exceptionally well timed, well designed and unique piece of gameplay. Clap


I second this opinion. Bravo Illy Devs!!!


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 17:50
Originally posted by Attila the Hun Attila the Hun wrote:

If I may inset my person in to this discussion. While the tournament in nice, and I and some members are participating, those with larger armies, the players who have been in the game longer will be the ones winning. 

They have the ability to train hundreds of soldiers as the weeks go by, mass produce equipment, have proper taxation for said soldiers.

The only  "Win" i and my members will receive from this, is a few levels to our commanders, from attacking all the npc's.


It seems to me so far that for anyone with decent (~1000 unit) armies and a few leveled 20+ commanders--or even the ability to build such soon--the limit won't be based on the size of their military machinations but rather the time they have to grind through all the farming.

Anyone who can be online enough to launch the most attacks and spot new NPC spawns the quickest has a very high chance of winning even the "most stuff" category.  I think active producers with at least one well-developed city will be hard-pressed to lose troops faster than they can replace them, provided they make smart choices when attacking and don't try to spread themselves too thin.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 19:45
I agree that there is opportunity for smaller players and alliances.
 
I also agree that player time committment is key to success in this tourney.  I must have sent over 25 armies yesterday in 3 waves: Immediately on tourney announcement, the midnight spawn, and the 6 am spawn (server times).  I lost over 2K troops in day 1.  My results were inadequate to be competitive - swamped in every category.  The troop loss will not be justified by the 10 gold per pelt booby-prize.
 
Realistically, that level of daily activity for a month is not viable for me.  I have not launched any armies today.
 
But I think for active players, this tourney offers a lot fun, it has unique qualities, and new surprises.


Posted By: Mr. Ubiquitous Feral
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 21:41
Originally posted by Attila the Hun Attila the Hun wrote:

If I may inset my person in to this discussion. While the tournament in nice, and I and some members are participating, those with larger armies, the players who have been in the game longer will be the ones winning. 

They have the ability to train hundreds of soldiers as the weeks go by, mass produce equipment, have proper taxation for said soldiers.

The only  "Win" i and my members will receive from this, is a few levels to our commanders, from attacking all the npc's.

This is where some players with larger armies came from.  Time takes time.


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I am a Machine.


Posted By: Manannan
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 21:51
I know I'm going to repeat a few things said by others but c'est la vie! 

SC and TC have produced a fantastic tournament for us that like the game itself is very in depth. Although I realize it will be difficult for Wheel of Time to compete with the larger alliances this is not stopping us from taking part. What the old sayings, 'Its not the winning but the taking part which matters' and of course 'You have to be in it to win it.'

It gives members a kick into learning some of the nuances of combat and the opportunity to boost their commanders experience. I haven't personally stopped answering questions about armies in the last day or so and everyone is very enthusiastic. 

The tournament also distracts us and stops us bothering poor SC everytime he strolls into GC about factions.

Hats off to the Illy team. You've pulled a cracker once again lads! Big smile

PS Is it just me or does the other news in the Herald hint at the release of factions 'soon (tm)' LOL


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Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!

"Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude


Posted By: Attila the Hun
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 21:54
Originally posted by Mr. Ubiquitous Feral Mr. Ubiquitous Feral wrote:

Originally posted by Attila the Hun Attila the Hun wrote:

If I may inset my person in to this discussion. While the tournament in nice, and I and some members are participating, those with larger armies, the players who have been in the game longer will be the ones winning. 

They have the ability to train hundreds of soldiers as the weeks go by, mass produce equipment, have proper taxation for said soldiers.

The only  "Win" i and my members will receive from this, is a few levels to our commanders, from attacking all the npc's.

This is where some players with larger armies came from.  Time takes time.


By that, they could also be the ones that win these tournys. In a few months i could be their size, but they'd still be larger. therefor more military prowess, =more chance of winning.

@SC,

You made a comment to hunt perhaps a rarer animal, that would work but once someone sees i had a body part of that animal they would detect a easy win and very simply overtake me with a larger army.


-------------
It's just a game. :)


Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 22:00
And if you want to give the non-paying players a chance of actually getting something: split the tournament into divisions.


are you saying non paying players can't compete?
cause as far i now prestige doesnt let u produce troops faster seeing it still only builds 1 queqe at a tile
or it doesnt let u produce weapons and armour faster for the same reason
all it gives an advantage in is the 10% attack or defencevalue

i dunno


-------------
The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte


Posted By: Attila the Hun
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 22:07
Nowhere did I mention non-paying players. I am a non-paying player but that didn't even cross my mind, though now it does bring out some details

A: paying players can have a few ques open on production buildings-more equipment made
B- paying players can quickly up buildings, for better research or military units.


Thought that was not the way my argument was going, I was just making a general point that someone my size and lower has absolutely no chance in winning any portion of this tournament.


-------------
It's just a game. :)


Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 22:13
Originally posted by Attila the Hun Attila the Hun wrote:

Nowhere did I mention non-paying players. I am a non-paying player but that didn't even cross my mind, though now it does bring out some details

A: paying players can have a few ques open on production buildings-more equipment made
B- paying players can quickly up buildings, for better research or military units.


Thought that was not the way my argument was going, I was just making a general point that someone my size and lower has absolutely no chance in winning any portion of this tournament.
sorry wasnt ment at you mate was at absabeen or something :s


-------------
The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte


Posted By: Attila the Hun
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 22:16
What a waste of a comment.

-------------
It's just a game. :)


Posted By: Empress Olivia
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 22:34
Originally posted by Attila the Hun Attila the Hun wrote:


 I was just making a general point that someone my size and lower has absolutely no chance in winning any portion of this tournament.


That is complete bunk. Medium size players like you have a very good chance of getting the top hunter prizes.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 02:22
*what Empress said...

@Atilla: you mentioned that in a few months, you could be the size of larger players - this part is true, very rapid growth is achievable in Illyriad if you spend some prestige, and more importantly: take alot of time to keep building ques full and ship resources from resource-rich to resource-poor cities.

The other part you mentioned is that you being bigger in a few months is useless because the big players will be even bigger - This part has a fallacy in it: limitations in the maximum population provided by a maxed out city, combined with the limited amount of food each city can produce when maxed, and the increasing population cost of settling each new city means that all top Illyriad members will eventually reach a plateau where there rate at which they can grow gets smaller and smaller.

This means that any new account created today has every opportunity to close the gap and compete with accounts created a year ago given some good tactics and a little activity. The only thing they will miss out on is witnessing a year of Illyriad's evolution.

Anyhow, call me a selfish right-wing troglodite, but I'm of the old-fashioned school of thought that believes those that have worked hard for a long-time deserve to have an advantage over others from time to time. Wink


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 03:54
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


Anyhow, call me a selfish right-wing troglodite, but I'm of the old-fashioned school of thought that believes those that have worked hard for a long-time deserve to have an advantage over others from time to time. Wink
You selfish right-wing troglodite!  HA!  I made myelf laugh.  LOL
 
There is ample opportunity for smaller/medium player to earn a Greatest Hunter victory.
 


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 06:03
Originally posted by Mr. Ubiquitous Feral Mr. Ubiquitous Feral wrote:

This is where some players with larger armies came from.  Time takes time.


This is my favorite quote today.


Posted By: RuneMage
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 13:53

I would like to see a new category that levels the playing field between the large players/alliances and small/medium players/alliances. How about introducing a Ratio where the collection counts are divided by the population of the player/alliance. This would mean the large players/alliances would need to collect more than the smaller players/alliances.

I personally have been concentrating on only wild dogs as they are most common in my area and so far I have collected just over 1/10 of what Bolomir has collected. My population is 13% of Bolomir, so if a Ratio factor was involved, I might have a shot, but without it, chance of winning anything is zero.


Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 14:21
you win commander experience so everyone wins :D

-------------
The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte


Posted By: Durham
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 23:07

The good news is that my army from Tulchan slew some mammoths and got a Mammoths Heart.

The Bad news is that Mammoths are not recognised on the list of animals and there is no entry in my inventory.
Moral of the tale. Check the list of eligible animals before launching an attack.
Oxford


Posted By: JCD64
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 23:56
so your the one who stole my mammoths


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2011 at 09:11
Originally posted by Durham Durham wrote:

The good news is that my army from Tulchan slew some mammoths and got a Mammoths Heart.

The Bad news is that Mammoths are not recognised on the list of animals and there is no entry in my inventory.
Moral of the tale. Check the list of eligible animals before launching an attack.
Oxford

Mammoths should certainly be on the table/inventory.

I'll take a look.

SC




Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2011 at 10:50
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Originally posted by Durham Durham wrote:

The good news is that my army from Tulchan slew some mammoths and got a Mammoths Heart.

The Bad news is that Mammoths are not recognised on the list of animals and there is no entry in my inventory.
Moral of the tale. Check the list of eligible animals before launching an attack.
Oxford

Mammoths should certainly be on the table/inventory.

I'll take a look.

SC




Mammoths appear to be there on the Tournament page... It might have been, however, that no one had yet got a Mammoth body part back home; and the Tournament page only displays items that have been safely brought back by any player.

And your army from Tulchan that is carrying a Mammoth Heart hasn't yet arrived home, which is why it doesn't show in your Inventory.

So, all working as expected!

Also, please report these kind of issues via Petition rather than on the forum thread - otherwise it can panic people about things not working (when they're fine!).

Regards,

SC


Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2011 at 17:08
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are all my Mammoth Body parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ShockedShocked
Shocked

-------------
http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2011 at 08:10
Is it me or is larger not equalling more? I know it's suppose to be random but I'm finding killing groups of 10 work out to have better odds than killing groups of 300. I killed ten spiders today and got one leg from them. That's ten kills per item. I also killed 66 dogs and got 4 items, that's 16.5 per item. 175 brown bears and 7 items, 25 per item. 374 spiders and 12 items, 31 kills per item. Not only that, 31 kills per item for a horde is the highest I've ever received. Doesn't sound very random to me. 


Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2011 at 08:36
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

Originally posted by Mr. Ubiquitous Feral Mr. Ubiquitous Feral wrote:

This is where some players with larger armies came from.  Time takes time.


This is my favorite quote today.


And that is my favourite quote today.

Yes Mule.....favoUrite.

Wink


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2011 at 14:12
It's ok, Llyorn, I understand that some must evolve more slowly than others.


Posted By: Fateful Ending
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2011 at 02:32
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

Is it me or is larger not equalling more? I know it's suppose to be random but I'm finding killing groups of 10 work out to have better odds than killing groups of 300. I killed ten spiders today and got one leg from them. That's ten kills per item. I also killed 66 dogs and got 4 items, that's 16.5 per item. 175 brown bears and 7 items, 25 per item. 374 spiders and 12 items, 31 kills per item. Not only that, 31 kills per item for a horde is the highest I've ever received. Doesn't sound very random to me. 

I win Brids
1733 kills per part. I took out a legion, and was particularly unlucky


Posted By: bow locks
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2011 at 15:33
The more dangerous / larger the NPC spawn, the more chance you have of getting both more different types of drop as well as more of each item that drops.

ffs i took out a legion or whatever, well over 5000 of the boogers and got;

NOTHING.

Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Scaled Chargers Scaled Chargers 2248 2248 0
Troops: Armoured Chargers Armoured Chargers 1941 1941 0
Troops: Heavy Chargers Heavy Chargers 808 808 0
Troops: Lightning Chargers Lightning Chargers 657 657 0


Your victorious troops retrieved:
101138 Gold
from the slain foes.




Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2011 at 16:55
yep, number 1 rule: stay away from legions.

@SC: would it be possible for us to get some stats during or after the tourny that breaks down how each Race performs in the tourny? It'd be nice to get some inter-species rivalry going I think. :P

Now... anyone want to bet against me when I say...

Biggest collection: #1 Human, #2 Elf, #3 Orc, #4 Dwarf
Unique collection: #1 Elf, #2 Human, #3 Orc, #4 Dwarf


...? Big smile


Posted By: Selissa
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2011 at 17:06
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

yep, number 1 rule: stay away from legions.

@SC: would it be possible for us to get some stats during or after the tourny that breaks down how each Race performs in the tourny? It'd be nice to get some inter-species rivalry going I think. :P

Now... anyone want to bet against me when I say...

Biggest collection: #1 Human, #2 Elf, #3 Orc, #4 Dwarf
Unique collection: #1 Elf, #2 Human, #3 Orc, #4 Dwarf


...? Big smile
 
Don't think much of dwarves, do you? ;)


-------------
Selissa
Proud member of Curse of the Wolves

I'm an angel, honest! The horns are just there to keep the halo straight!


Posted By: bow locks
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2011 at 23:14
Just to balance my earier whinge;

Attackers: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Commander: hoodietwo Longbowmen Longbowman 1 Damaged for 0, 600 health remains.
Troops: Knights Knights 130 0 130


Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Small Salamanders Small Salamanders 2 2 0


Your victorious troops retrieved:
24 Gold
2 Salamander Claws
from the slain foes.


Right. This is cool. Clearly balanced. Clearly just statistical anomalies.




Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2011 at 23:42
I have not kept records...but my gut says my experience is like Bow Locks.  It seems like there is a much better payoff with Packs over Legions.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 03:20
Originally posted by bow locks bow locks wrote:

Just to balance my earier whinge;

Attackers: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Commander: hoodietwo Longbowmen Longbowman 1 Damaged for 0, 600 health remains.
Troops: Knights Knights 130 0 130


Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Small Salamanders Small Salamanders 2 2 0


Your victorious troops retrieved:
24 Gold
2 Salamander Claws
from the slain foes.


Right. This is cool. Clearly balanced. Clearly just statistical anomalies.




Hi Bow,

Um.

I could equally pull an example out of the db of someone receiving more than 300 items from a Horde....

Can I ask you to ask someone in your alliance (I'd suggest someone good with numbers... HM perhaps?) to explain the utter irrational futility in pulling a couple of sample numbers out of a hat containing a large number of randomly generated samples and comparing these two sample numbers in order to try and ascertain the probability distribution of what other numbers remain in the hat.

For sure, the risk/reward ratio may (or may not) be fair for the larger vs smaller spawns - but this will *only* be apparent (or not) when you look at all attacks on Legions vs Handfuls as a whole on the entire weighted probability distribution outcome curve.

Drop rates and propensities may (or may not) be adjusted by us, depending on what we find when we look at the data. 

To be clear, we know what the maths says the outcome will be over a statistically significant sample size - the only thing we might alter the maths for are gameplay factors such as the frequency of what *we* want to drop (ie the common vs rare drops), and under what circumstances they drop.

Yours, putting the 'ballistic' into probaballisticly Wink,

SC


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 03:32
To put what SC said into, well, shorter terms:  the problem is with standard deviation.  The likelihood of an attack bearing average fruits (as opposed to dramatically above or below average) are really quite poor.

Every attack is essentially a gamble.  Knowing that the average should be reasonably favorable, however, means that the safe bet is in spreading your attacks over the largest number of small attacks possible...grinding on the small fish.  (That's a colloquialism but NOT a euphemism.)

Hitting big targets is a strategy best left to players who want to gamble for much higher than average results, as opposed to those with sufficient forces to compete on volumes.  I do somewhat agree with the underlying thrust of Bow's complaint--in my opinion the standard deviation in the statistical model of attack rewards ought to be substantially smaller.  Right now those big costly attacks are way too much like a craps shoot and I haven't seen much evidence that there's even a 50% chance of getting much higher volume or rarity in drops.


Posted By: Ryuuku
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 04:51
In other words, keep the std deviation large on small attacks and narrow it to nearly the average for large, costly attacks. I agree, seems more fair that way, especially if the dice roll is just once per attack. Perhaps, a dice roll/each 10 beasts in the group or each 10 attackers so that the chances of a large attack yielding nothing would diminish to nearly zero while still providing surprises for those only able to attack a small group. This gives more motivation to the large players who are playing for tournament wins, and not merely commander xp, more motivation to clear out the Legions so that the smaller players can get more playable spawns.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 06:05
The "problem"  (not really sure it is a problem) is that you can use significant overkill on smaller spawns and thereby reduce your army losses substantially.

With a legion (even those of the wild dogs or spiders that Boromir likes so much) it's much harder to get the same amount of overkill and thus low enough troop losses to make it worth while regardless of the stats about what your returns might be.

SC - for that reason alone I'm willing to bet several beers that the number or instances of legions bearing massive fruit are dwarfed by those of small attacks giving large returns per unit lost.


Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 08:36
I can say whole heartedly that I understand none of that, being rubbish at math(sTongue).
I'll leave that stuff to you.....


Posted By: Durham
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 15:15
Do armies returning home with animal parts at midday on 11th May get counted?


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 09:12
Originally posted by Durham Durham wrote:

Do armies returning home with animal parts at midday on 11th May get counted?

Hi Durham,

No - it's what is in your inventory at the stroke of midday.  Drops in motion won't be counted.

Regards,

SC


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 09:25
Hi all,

There's been quite a lot of comment, Petitions etc regarding the use of diplomatic units to "lock down" spawn sites.

This tactic takes advantage of the fact that an NPC node does not re-spawn if there are units incoming to it, and so a player can "force" an NPC node to remain of a certain type/number.

How this tactic works
  • Identify a major competitor for a particular tournament category
  • Look at the spawn sites around this competitors' cities
  • Wait until a very large spawn appears (Horde/Legion etc)
  • Send a single scout (or slowest diplo unit) to that spawn square
  • When those diplo units arrive, send another one - thereby stopping that node from changing to something the player is likely to want to attack

We feel absolutely 100% that this is not an exploit, for the following reasons:

  • It's a clever, legitimate use of an ingame mechanic to hamper a competitor's tournament progress
  • It's available to everyone with minimal technology or building requirements, and rewards people who put time and effort into deploying this tactic, rather than simply having yet-another-tournament where the biggest armies win by default.  This tactic substantially levels the playing field between big alliances and small individuals.
  • It introduces some non-violent PvP elements to a largely PvE tournament.
  • Whilst it may be slightly underhand and sneaky, I suspect most tournament participants would prefer this tactic to be the one in use rather than (eg) another perfectly legitimate tactic to hamper a competitor that might involve Siege Engines.
Regards,

SC


Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 09:59
SC, may I commend you on your explanations in this forum. The last thing we need in this game is more rules to combat simply clever strategies i.e the diplo tactic, and also I don't think the higher end players need any more advantages in regards to the attack/reward averages. Keep on keeping on, the more time you put in, the more you advance.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 11:53
Clap

Congrats to those that bawawawed so hard the GMs felt moved to make a public statement revealing your competitors tactics.

edit: Although I see that those that were bawawawawwwwing had no problem with hijacking the same tactic to use in retaliation themselves before sending their petitions complaining of exploits.


Posted By: Fateful Ending
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 12:22
LOL, i haven't even heard about that tactic yet, and as far as i now no-one's used it on us yet. (us being T?) 


Disclaimer: It might of been used on us, but if it has i haven't heard of it, and it is possible i haven;t heard of it because i am not the go to person on anything Big smile


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 16:30
Think of it as a much more peaceful and considerate alternative to sending assassins. Tongue

I know that some people are upset that this tactic has been employed, and Harmless would like to publicly respond.  We have done so here:  http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/topic1852_post19176.html#19176 - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/topic1852_post19176.html#19176




Posted By: bow locks
Date Posted: 02 May 2011 at 20:24
lol at SC and HM - maths was one of my subjects at university, so i know exactly what you are talking about, however that never stopped anyone from abusing statistics!


Posted By: _duQ
Date Posted: 03 May 2011 at 10:07
Yeah, sure it's clever, so clever that H? hasn't been able to catch up on VALAR at all.

However, participants to the next tournament let me describe your daily activities:
  • Spot competitor's legion and camp sites
  • Send hundreds even thousands of scouts one by one, yes because clever tactics are always based on numbers, the more you send the better
What if you don't want to play like that?
You loose!

So because 1 or several players like to spoil their day sending scouts 1 by 1 and because, I quote, "this is not an exploit", either you don't participate or you spent 1 month sending tons of scouts every 6hrs.

Yes but it's Ok it's only during tournament. Well... thinking of it, not exactly. Remember, anyone except noobs can use that tactic.
They are surely clever people here that are going to do that for the fun of ruining other players game. Others may just want to limit enemy capabilities to train their commanders. Moreover, I've heard rumors of the tournament mechanics used in trade 2.0.

So, at least, the only positive point is that it is super coherent with the game world, that scouts sent 3 days away hypnotize NPCs to stay at its position. I suggest that we extend that system to player's armies, if I scout you, your armies can't move, so I can destroy you.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 10 May 2011 at 14:58
Originally posted by _duQ _duQ wrote:

Yeah, sure it's clever, so clever that H? hasn't been able to catch up on VALAR at all.

I believe no one in H? ever said the tactic was "clever". That is all VALAR. In H? for us, the tactic was just trying something different because we could see VALAR was going to win already if we did nothing.

And I think this tactic has almost completely stopped now that both sides have seen that it wasn't going to affect the overall result too much anyways, because it takes alot of time. I think there is not much to fear with this tactic being used alot after the tournament too... because, again, it takes ALOT of time to use effectively.

I think there is another thread for discussing this though.

EDIT: less than 24 hours of tournament left

Who's going for a sprint finish?


Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 01:30
With the conclusion of the tournament imminent I'd like to be the first to congratulate VALAR on an EXTRA-ordinary effort in their Victory.

On behalf of Harmless? we applaud you and sincerely admire your dedication and congratulate you in being the new current tournament holders. Bravo.

I'd like to extend those compliments to Boromir on his ridiculously outstanding victory. Well done, amazing effort.  Sincerest congratulations.

I'd like to publicly thank ALL Harmless? members. Once again your participation was outstanding and Im very proud to be a member of the team. Brilliant effort guys n' girls, you should all be very proud as once again you've batted WELL above your weight.

To the Dev team: Outstanding on this one. You could've easily rested on laurels and re-run the last. Kudos on the unique concept and different dynamic. This has kept everyone enthused and personally, enjoyed the whole episode. Im sure and I hope that transpired into a few more shekels in the coffers. Keep it coming.

L.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 12:24
The tournament has now closed, and all specimens have been collected from everyone's towns.

Items in transit (but undelivered to their town) at midday today have crumbled to dust.

NPC animals have ceased to drop anatomical parts, but continue to drop Gold as before.

We'll tot up the totals for everyone and make an official prize post when we're ready.

Thanks to everyone who participated, and many congratulations to the winners.

Regards,

SC


Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 14:46
LAST BALL OF THE OVER

Roger of Hoveden an English chronicler who was employed by King Henry II, described tournaments as "military exercises carried out, not in the spirit of hostility but solely for practice and the display of prowess".

Did the GM's get it right when they decided, half way through the tournament, that the use of diplomats by one party to pin NPC spawn points of an opponent was " a clever ingame mechanic" open to anyone.

It seems to me that spiking an opponents spawn point is almost the same as

1. tampering with an opponents tennis racket or;
2. drugging a race horse or;
3. ball tampering in cricket to benefit swing bowlers etc

All of these practises have been used but have any of them been condoned.

This was a Tournament in fact it was billed as a Royal tournament or the Kings Tournament implying that there was an air of legitimacy surrounding the whole affair and half way through the event we are presented with a decsion that applauds  a "sneaky tactic". This is a dodgy precedent, nay a well dodgy precedent, which could mean that other Tournaments will just descend into the outright hostility which tournaments purported to avoid (see quote above.)

I contend that there is no place for metagaming in tournaments and as a loyal subject of King Sigurd I am outraged that this type of sharp malpractise can be condoned in Tournament that bears His Royal Highneesses name!!!!

More corrrectly I am worried that this precedent devalues the holding of Tournaments. Less and less players may particpate in future if decisions like this continue.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 15:59
Maybe it's just me, but does Aneirin sound like Lionz Heartz?


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 17:08
Originally posted by Aneirin Aneirin wrote:


Did the GM's get it right when they decided, half way through the tournament, that the use of diplomats by one party to pin NPC spawn points of an opponent was " a clever ingame mechanic" open to anyone.

All of these practises have been used but have any of them been condoned.

This was a Tournament in fact it was billed as a Royal tournament or the Kings Tournament implying that there was an air of legitimacy surrounding the whole affair and half way through the event we are presented with a decsion that applauds  a "sneaky tactic". This is a dodgy precedent, nay a well dodgy precedent, which could mean that other Tournaments will just descend into the outright hostility which tournaments purported to avoid (see quote above.)


Originally posted by King Sigurd of Illyria, when announcing the tournament on Day One King Sigurd of Illyria, when announcing the tournament on Day One wrote:


As this is a mighty work of knowledge to benefit the Kingdom as a whole, His Majesty has forbidden the theft of these specimens from player towns for the duration of the tournament - although his military advisors suggest that Lords might certainly use some more cunning and underhand tactics to hamper their competitors' efforts.


Aneirin, I suspect you might be expecting too much from King Sigurd :)

SC




Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 17:17
I would wager he's not.  I came to terms long ago with not being loved by everyone. Big smile

Erm, that was in reply to The_Dude's questioning of Aneirin's identity, not Stormcrow's response.  My personal opinion more closely resembles SC's vision of "free enterprise." Nuke


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 17:19
Weird. I was just quoting that last player comment when it disappeared. 

Ah well.  I too, second Aneirin's poetic use of language in support of his case, and the point is certainly taken; however HM King Sigurd quite likes chaos, bloodshed, antipathy and - dare we say it - war between Alliances: the more things they have to fight over, the more likely it is that they will fight - and therefore the less threat they pose to the Kingdom in the future.

Regards,

SC


Posted By: Azreil
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 17:24
SC: Prophetic.... ?  A sign of things to come... ?    :)


Posted By: bartimeus
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 17:32
Next tournament will be an alliance wide deathmatch...

-------------
Bartimeus, your very best friend.


Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 19:26
In this thread we have seen the apparent demolition of my arguement - that GM Stormcrow's ruling on the "sneaky tactics" (not my words) deployed by H? on pinning NPC spawn points created a precedent that might further tournaments as simply being a means to provoke hostility. The justification for that demolition can be seen highlighted in Stormcrow's posting above.

Also in this thread Storrmcrow now asserts that it has always been King Sigurd's intention to promote hostility between the alliances and indicates that this and future tournaments are to be viewed as a means to achieve this. I must confess that is news to me but as in all things if Stormcrow states it - then it must be true.

So be it.

I know that there are leaders out there who had different hopes for thier alliances. Indeed one wrote to me yesterday saying that his alliance weren't competetive and didn't want to be the best they just wanted to "have a fruendly atmosphere". Fat chance of that then, because King Sigurd and GM Stormcrow want you to be hostile to each other

The alliance known as Harmless? /Toothless? have often denied and ridiculed those who have drawn attention to their insatiable need to dominate and win. However it is clear in this thread they truly desire both  - and more. They want to Quote Bartemeus  "a deathmatch" and it seems likely that it will be a deathmatch sponsored by King Sigurd and ruled over by GM Stormcrow!

There can be no doubt any longer




Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 19:28
I think I hear a ghost.


Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 19:38
I think his argument is leaking...I see water coming on the floor...either that or he got a little uptight and nervous :S  Either way, I think he needs some help.  /me giggles


Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 19:46
Originally posted by Aneirin Aneirin wrote:

In this thread we have seen the apparent demolition of my arguement - that GM Stormcrow's ruling on the "sneaky tactics" (not my words) deployed by H? on pinning NPC spawn points created a precedent that might further tournaments as simply being a means to provoke hostility. The justification for that demolition can be seen highlighted in Stormcrow's posting above.
Also in this thread Storrmcrow now asserts that it has always been King Sigurd's intention to promote hostility between the alliances and indicates that this and future tournaments are to be viewed as a means to achieve this. I must confess that is news to me but as in all things if Stormcrow states it - then it must be true.
So be it.
I know that there are leaders out there who had different hopes for thier alliances. Indeed one wrote to me yesterday saying that his alliance weren't competetive and didn't want to be the best they just wanted to "have a fruendly atmosphere". Fat chance of that then, because King Sigurd and GM Stormcrow want you to be hostile to each other
The alliance known as Harmless? /Toothless? have often denied and ridiculed those who have drawn attention to their insatiable need to dominate and win. However it is clear in this thread they truly desire both  - and more. They want to Quote Bartemeus  "a deathmatch" and it seems likely that it will be a deathmatch sponsored by King Sigurd and ruled over by GM Stormcrow!
There can be no doubt any longer


Go play with LH now child.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 20:51
Ahh yeh that was me removing the post SC! :D

I made some comment and then decided I'd rather wait and see what others posted first.

I was wondering who Aneirin was too. By the fact that he has only a couple of cities and is hidden away right on the edge of the map but seems to know a fair bit about Illy goings-on I'd guess he's someone's alt.

I'm wondering whohe refers to with 'Harmless' desire to dominate' though... I'm in Harmless and I don't remember us dominating anyone outside of tournament for a long time. About the only thing we definately dominate these days is the 'total population' ranks but even that gap is closing up with other top alliances as people reach their total pop-cap. VALAR has already proved last month that H? is far from untouchable.

I guess occupying the number 1 spot will always attract a certain kind of hostility from competetive people like Aneirin. It's pretty much human nature.

With the tournament it is pretty easy to focus on just H? and VALAR too much though. There are 8 other alliances in the top 10. And many more promising alliances below that. The last pvp tournament showed that some of those alliances are very capable of good coordination and big troop counts.

If a little prod by the dev-team help the top alliances interact with each other more then I think that's a great thing. It will make things more interesting for everyone.

I suddenly hear cries of: "but what about the poor peaceful monster hunters, trader guys and newbies??? they will get killed and razed and forced out of the game by this supposed 'conflict'!!!???"

Many top alliances run and/or protect training guilds specifically to encourage new players into the game. They aren't going to go to war to push established players out of the game. We already know that players who bully people who don't want to/can't fight tend to get severely dealt with by the community. The same goes for alliances: no ONE alliance dominates the rest of Illyriad, it is effectively self-policing, thanks to the consciencious approach of most top alliances and their leaders. (I have no idea how to spell consciencious... Embarrassed)


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 21:26
Createure, there are always "Haters" out there.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 21:43
You mean.... Haters be Hatin'...?

Wow... my mind is blow... now I have to go to the pub and stop refreshing this forum. Beer


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 23:49
Originally posted by Aneirin Aneirin wrote:


Also in this thread Storrmcrow now asserts that it has always been King Sigurd's intention to promote hostility between the alliances and indicates that this and future tournaments are to be viewed as a means to achieve this. I must confess that is news to me but as in all things if Stormcrow states it - then it must be true.

So be it.

I know that there are leaders out there who had different hopes for thier alliances. Indeed one wrote to me yesterday saying that his alliance weren't competetive and didn't want to be the best they just wanted to "have a fruendly atmosphere". Fat chance of that then, because King Sigurd and GM Stormcrow want you to be hostile to each other


Hi Aneirin,

This has ended up being a longer post than I originally thought it would be - but there are some serious issues to address here.

Firstly, I'm not asserting this or that - I'm simply stating the fact of King Sigurd's original post.

On a slightly deeper note, you should really separate ingame RL people (like me, GM Stormcrow) from purely fictional characters (like King Sigurd) or Factions (like the Council of Illyria).  If you read the Lore you'll realise (as many of the excellent writers in the Fiction forum have) that King Sigurd is not the only mouthpiece of Illyria, and in fact has himself many threats and challenges to overcome from other factions (such as the Undying Flame faction).

We (the dev and content team) have a set of progressing and growing storyarcs involving the ingame fictional characters and factions, and the way they inter-relate.  These storyarcs will become clearer over time as we release Faction AI, Faction standings and Faction Quests; but *definitely* do not conflate King Sigurd's goals with the dev team's goals. 

Where we're headed to is that these factions are independent entities, written and story-arced by our (amazingly good) content writers.

There is every likelihood that the next "official" tournament will be run by the Blood Reavers, or by the Outlaws, or indeed, any other faction who is present ingame, and there will be faction standing implications for participation on one or either side.

So, simply because King Sigurd likes mayhem, intrigue and "sneaky tactics" does *absolutely not* mean that all tournaments will be run this way in the future.  Other factions will have other philosophies on what is "acceptable" behaviour, and I expect these will come through strongly in the rules of future tournaments, and it will, of course, be up to you as individuals or alliances if you wish to participate in them or not.

Ignoring the ingame faction side for a moment, though, and addressing the core gameplay philosophy we have at Illyriad...

Well Gosh and Blimey.

Of course
we want to produce areas of friction between players and alliances.,,

If you don't want *any* possibility of friction between players and alliances then there are tons of games I can suggest that might be more suited to your temperament. Most of these suggestions aren't MMOs, because, well, when you put people together in realtime you *inevitably* get friction - unless you're playing Hello Kitty Online ofc (a game that I truly enjoy btw in case you think I'm being facetious - perhaps ThunderCat can post a photo of my HK diamante-encrusted pink and purple mouse?).

But back to Illy..

We don't want players to be *forced* into the whole intrigue/diplomacy/combat arena, and there are (I'm very glad to say) many players who stay out of the whole alliance politics and diplomacy arena without any comeback. 

I expect, however, that the further players put their heads 'above the parapet' by their actions (be those military actions, trade actions, diplo actions, GC comments or whatever), the more likely they are to be "involved" in the game, whether that further involvement is what they wished or not: it's the nature of social interaction.

We will certainly be providing more methods for players to put their heads over that parapet in the future.  Players can choose the form and style of this emergence into the glare of Illyriad as they see fit; but sometimes they won't be able to choose this for themselves depending on who they fall afoul of and why - and that's not really for us (as devs) to prescribe.

This is, in a nutshell, what we believe a sandbox game is.

If I had to write it down as an equation, I'd say something like:

MMO + Sandbox = (Social Interaction) x (Game Toolset + Environmental Catalysts)

^^ This equation is crap, btw, just wanted to let you know ;)

However, our job - as devs in a sandbox game - is to provide a toolset for players to use as they see fit.  Sometimes you'll agree with the way or the direction/method in which these tools are used, and sometime you'll disagree.

That, however, is simply not our concern unless it threatens the very fabric of the gameworld - in which case we'll step in and change things.

To conclude my overly long post:

Illyriad is a sandbox.   We like intrigue, politics, diplomacy, subtlety.  We also like full on war, sieging and destruction.   We also like peace, trade, questing and NPC interaction.  In fact, we like everything about the game, generally.  What we mostly like, though, are the game mechanics that allow all these things to occur, and we like the players to apply these different "modes" as they wish - and for the players/alliances to balance themselves. 

Sure, there are game areas we can improve on, but our watchword/motto is "There is no game content that we can produce that is as compelling as what the players themselves produce". 

We can build toolsets, and we can create catalysts, but it's up to you people to make of them what you will, for better or for worse.

People sometimes ask why there aren't many inter-alliance wars in the top X of the alliance rank hierarchy, and shouldn't we make day-to-day things more warlike?

My answer is invariably "no" - this is a very "real" gameworld in many ways. You can lose the cities that you spent months building in a matter of days if you get it wrong strategically and tactically.  The overt war "detente" at the top is a reflection of the global reality of the Illyriad gamebalance - but do not *for a minute* think that this means it's peace and Hello Kitty Online at the top; there's as much spying, intrigue, politicking and metagaming (and indeed underhand tactics such as the last tournament, or overtly warlike destruction as in the tournament before it) going on each and every day between "friendly" alliances.  When it spills into actual war then that's the buttock-clenching moment everyone dreads because it really can be win-all or lose-all if you don't have the skills to come out on top.

Apologies for a long post here, but a few things I wanted to get across!

Best,

SC


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 00:19
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

 If you don't want *any* possibility of friction between players and alliances then there are tons of games I can suggest that might be more suited to your temperament. Most of these suggestions aren't MMOs, because, well, when you put people together in realtime you *inevitably* get friction - unless you're playing Hello Kitty Online ofc (a game that I truly enjoy btw in case you think I'm being facetious - perhaps ThunderCat can post a photo of my HK diamante-encrusted pink and purple mouse?).
 <-- Exhibit A Confused

-------------


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 00:25
I loved reading that in-depth post on the Illy sandbox philosophy...

...but I love that diamante-encrusted pink and purple mouse more.


Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 00:25
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

 If you don't want *any* possibility of friction between players and alliances then there are tons of games I can suggest that might be more suited to your temperament. Most of these suggestions aren't MMOs, because, well, when you put people together in realtime you *inevitably* get friction - unless you're playing Hello Kitty Online ofc (a game that I truly enjoy btw in case you think I'm being facetious - perhaps ThunderCat can post a photo of my HK diamante-encrusted pink and purple mouse?).
 <-- Exhibit A Confused


well thats cute! 


Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 00:40


I weep for the future.




Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 01:34
Originally posted by Llyorn Of Jaensch Llyorn Of Jaensch wrote:



I weep for the future.




Me too. And not because of my truly awesome mouse either :)

SC

PS. I had no idea TC had that pic on tap - I thought there'd be more srsbznz responses first: darn you TC!


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 03:18
"actual war then that's the buttock-clenching moment everyone dreads "
 
Yikes!


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 03:20
The thing about a sandbox is:
Sand
Ants
Wind blown sand
sand in my shoes
sand in my eyes
sand in my shorts
sand everywhere
sand tomorrow
never-ending sand
sand
sand
 


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 06:29
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

...you should really separate ingame RL people (like me, GM Stormcrow) from purely fictional characters (like King Sigurd).
This is very counter-intuitive, given that in the new UI, players receive messages from "King Sigurd of Illyria [DEVS]."  Even before this label, developer actions such as restoring units lost because of a bug were executed through the in-game identity Sigurd.  I would bet many people are mistaking Sigurd's presented position and attitudes as representative of your own.  I even thought this was the case myself, and that the King was an extension/personification of your will in-game, however recused his involvement in actual player dealings.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 10:16
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

...you should really separate ingame RL people (like me, GM Stormcrow) from purely fictional characters (like King Sigurd).
This is very counter-intuitive, given that in the new UI, players receive messages from "King Sigurd of Illyria [DEVS]."  Even before this label, developer actions such as restoring units lost because of a bug were executed through the in-game identity Sigurd.  I would bet many people are mistaking Sigurd's presented position and attitudes as representative of your own.  I even thought this was the case myself, and that the King was an extension/personification of your will in-game, however recused his involvement in actual player dealings.


Hey HM,

Yes, I agree having King Sigurd [DEVS] is indeed a barrier to 'separation'.  Part of the Faction AI changes will move King Sigurd away from an actual town and alliance and into his hub seat at Centrum, at which point we will cease to actively use an ingame account for King Sigurd's actions.

Regards,

SC




Posted By: Fateful Ending
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 10:39
Originally posted by Aneirin Aneirin wrote:

In this thread we have seen the apparent demolition of my arguement - that GM Stormcrow's ruling on the "sneaky tactics" (not my words) deployed by H? on pinning NPC spawn points created a precedent that might further tournaments as simply being a means to provoke hostility. The justification for that demolition can be seen highlighted in Stormcrow's posting above.

Also in this thread Storrmcrow now asserts that it has always been King Sigurd's intention to promote hostility between the alliances and indicates that this and future tournaments are to be viewed as a means to achieve this. I must confess that is news to me but as in all things if Stormcrow states it - then it must be true.

So be it.

I know that there are leaders out there who had different hopes for thier alliances. Indeed one wrote to me yesterday saying that his alliance weren't competetive and didn't want to be the best they just wanted to "have a fruendly atmosphere". Fat chance of that then, because King Sigurd and GM Stormcrow want you to be hostile to each other

The alliance known as Harmless? /Toothless? have often denied and ridiculed those who have drawn attention to their insatiable need to dominate and win. However it is clear in this thread they truly desire both  - and more. They want to Quote Bartemeus  "a deathmatch" and it seems likely that it will be a deathmatch sponsored by King Sigurd and ruled over by GM Stormcrow!

There can be no doubt any longer



Sorry to drag this up again. But H? and T? are not and do not act collaboratively, yes H? will defend us if we ask (very nicely, they have more important things to do after all, like winning evil-ness competitions ) T? is a separate alliance. One that tries its best to help, protect and guide new players. T? and H? are not the same alliance.


Thanks,  just had to rectify a misunderstanding that seems to be going around the block.
  sincerely Fateful Ending


Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 12 May 2011 at 10:40
As I gaze across the sandbox of cyberexistence and contemplate the diamante encrusted pink  and purple mouse of all creation I cannot help but hear voices echoing down through the age's. In particular the voice of Terry Jones (arguably real) playing Mary in 'The Life of Brian' (probably fictional) and addressing a crowd of early religious followers
 
"He is not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy""
 
Tongue



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