Medieval Knights
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1724
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:37 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Medieval Knights
Posted By: Nokigon
Subject: Medieval Knights
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2011 at 17:17
Many of the leading alliances are at war with a dead alliance, called Medieval Knights. I think that they would be an interesting element in my story, but I don't know enough about them. Three stars for guessing what I want to know 
I'll say anyway. I'd like to know who was involved, who was the main protaganist, how did it start, what was the diplomatic efforts, how did it end....
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Replies:
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2011 at 18:13
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MK was an alliance of "pragmatic" moral persuasion which in general would likely not have earned much attention. However, one member of the leadership brought them to ruin by treating a NAP with Black/White as a confederation and actively drawing the alliance into battle against Harmless with White by deceiving the other MK leadership and members. In the end, and as White disintegrated, the alliance itself besieged that leader (out of the game, I think) and reformed elsewhere.
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2011 at 18:39
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A little clarification...Tubana, the MK leader referenced by HM, was regularly attacking Dlord players without advising his officers of those actions. Dlord coordinated a group of 8 (if I recall correctly) alliances (Ni and H? being the most significant) to attack MK in unison. Tubana resigned from MK within about 24 hours of the outbreak of this assault.
Several days later, Tubana attacked me with no provocation on my part. With that, the officers I was working with to salvage an alliance from MK membership decided unanimously that Tubana was a clear and present danger to our safety and well-being. At the same time, Dlord was moving much too slow in eliminating Tubana (too few T2 siege in their siege armies), so we decided to assist Dlord in removing Tubana as a common threat to each of us.
MK reformed as Phoenix (PX) which razed only 1 of Tubana's cities. Dlord took care of the rest including the final Tubana city standing.
Tubana created an alt and joined Crow. However, he abandoned that alt fairly early.
The last word I received from Tubana was "You suck." That is verbatim.
All of the alliance leaders had designated Bel as the negotiator and each tolf me that they would abide by any agreement Bel would make with me. Shortly after Tubana was resolved, Ni breached the peace agreement negotiated between Belargyle and me. First, by sneak attacking Rupe and destroying all of Rupe's armies while he was asleep. And then a few days later by sending 19 armies into my cities and demanding my head. None of the alliances that had joined with Dlord altered their diplomatic stance with Ni and remained Confed/NAP with Ni in support of Ni's double-cross of me while leaving a Ni army occupying a prime siege square adjacent to one of my cities. PX officers were hesitant to rally to my defense, all of us having had our fill of near-constant Illy war for over 3 months.
I put my cities into hibernation and left Illy.
PX dissolved and merged into Tranquil Vision within a couple of weeks after I departed Illy.
The city move and promise of Factions lured me back to Illy.
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Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2011 at 21:24
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For the record, Harmless did break off relations with Ni. This happened after the original leader of Ni went inactive and the alliance took a new, dishonorable direction. I don't recall if we ever took action against them, but we certainly didn't support them. The in-game designation of our relationship may not have been updated right away either...again I can't recall specifics, but the distancing between us would have been placed gradually due to past alliance. Ni were the first to support Harmless, and expended large forces in our aid (particularly by defending a very isolated Braque) well before the outcome was certain.
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2011 at 23:56
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For the record:
Yes, when I returned to Illy, H? had canceled its Confed with Ni. But not while I was under attack from Ni AFTER peace had been agreed to. At that time, H? remained Confed with Ni. Further, Bel reported that H? would not intervene. Bel talked about support, but no armies moved and Dlord retained its NAP w/ Ni which made Bel's words sound hollow.
The effect of that was H? and Dlord stood behind Ni in its unprovoked breach of the peace agreement that lasted 10 days.
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Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 02:02
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It was a difficult call to make, and I don't consider non-interference equivalent to "standing behind" Ni. We had and still have a policy of non-interference regarding any hostilities against parties outside our protection and political affiliations (lest we be labeled as server police). But while I'm not sure we should have reacted differently, I am sorry for the damage that was done by our then ally.
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 04:17
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I appreciate the dilemma y'all faced. These are the perils of foreign relations.
Anyhooo...ancient history. :)
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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 06:50
Isn't it interesting how History provides perspective?
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Posted By: Mr. Ubiquitous Feral
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 07:52
What is a confederation? I picture it as a kind of alliance of alliances? Is it the same as a treaty, and are the conditions negotiable? Also please explain the escrow. Thank you
------------- I am a Machine.
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Posted By: Thexion
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 10:49
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Shortly yes confederation is alliance between two alliances. Escrow is money that alliance can pay to to the other alliance for forming pact, peace, confederation, Non-aggression pact for example .
Writing a history of illyriad would be interesting from we already have HM writing from white/harmless war. That war indirectly lead to war against MK and aftermath of that MK war showed true colors of Nige that created war against Malmotchans in the end..
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Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 13:04
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I think that that is a request. I don't know enough about it.... but I suppose I could research, and I'm sure HM and TD would want to help *nudge, nudge
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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 16:08
Perhaps best place to start would be a list of big alliances in the first month, and then going upward. I saw many alliance breakups in the alliance history (for example Danger), but that was mostly before my time...
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Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 16:12
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Likewise. I started opening my ears to Illy halfway through DB-BOK war.
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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 16:21
Yeah, it really is interesting, how long some conflicts take. Some even seem to be set some month before now outbreaks. As for the war against the Malmotchans: Invictus already had a war against Butlers (Nige,etc.) old alliance SWQ almost at the beginning of Illyriad (so long before I joined), and I have heard many accusations of him being multiaccount while Butler was in Ni, so even before most other alliances took action in that final war. Perhaps you should ask Shadar Logoth or Warrior Bunny on that, as they took part in that first war...
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Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 16:25
Hora wrote:
Yeah, it really is interesting, how long some conflicts take. Some even seem to be set some month before now outbreaks. As for the war against the Malmotchans: Invictus already had a war against Butlers (Nige,etc.) old alliance SWQ almost at the beginning of Illyriad (so long before I joined), and I have heard many accusations of him being multiaccount while Butler was in Ni, so even before most other alliances took action in that final war. Perhaps you should ask Shadar Logoth or Warrior Bunny on that, as they took part in that first war...
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Actually, I was involved in the Mal Motshans- I know how it's happened, more or less. The Knight who say Ni merged into TMM, who decided that they were going to take Mal Motsha by force. They tried to force US into joining TMM- DB fought them. T? members were treated the same way; everyone valiantly chose to stand up to them.
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 19:22
Hora wrote:
Yeah, it really is interesting, how long some conflicts take. Some even seem to be set some month before now outbreaks. As for the war against the Malmotchans: Invictus already had a war against Butlers (Nige,etc.) old alliance SWQ almost at the beginning of Illyriad (so long before I joined), and I have heard many accusations of him being multiaccount while Butler was in Ni, so even before most other alliances took action in that final war. Perhaps you should ask Shadar Logoth or Warrior Bunny on that, as they took part in that first war...
| VIC did not have a war against SWQ. Butler was a jerk and I quit SWQ whereupon he started attacking me. He laid siege to The Alamo. In the final moments of that siege, Warrior Bunny destroyed Nige's siege army, saving The Alamo from destruction. MK then started action against Butler, Nige, Juno and Calis of SWQ - but no others in SWQ. Within a few days, SWQ was disbanded. Many SWQ players joined MK. Calis joined Crow and MK operations ceased against him. MK lacked siege capability at that time so after a few weeks, Butler/Juno/Nige joined Ni and a peace was brokered with Ni.
A couple of weeks after that, MK began aiding WC against Ni/H?. No one could ever explain to me what the strategy was for that campaign. It appeared futile from the outset and, ultimately, was fatal for many in WC.
WC, however, did have a history with Butler/Nige/Juno that was never disclosed to SWQ at large. The result was that many SWQ players received WC attacks and Butler/Nige/Juno would never render assistance to his membership, though he frequently requested assistance for himself.
While I was away from Illy, Ni attacked VIC and sieged Kaboom. Ni's siege was destroyed by VIC with their allies, but Ni remained intact.
When the city move was announced, the accounts played by Butler/Nige created a new alliance, TMM, and left Ni in the hands of several small players. While many alliances were willing to let Nige/Butler/Etc. and TMM remain viable with a few large cities, a few of us siezed the opportunity of a severely weakened TMM to finish off the accounts. All accounts were reduced to a single new city which was then razed and player relocation was achieved for all TMM accounts.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 21:07
The_Dude wrote:
A couple of weeks after that, MK began aiding WC against Ni/H?. No one could ever explain to me what the strategy was for that campaign. It appeared futile from the outset and, ultimately, was fatal for many in WC.
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For WC the reason was Diablito's bruised ego. For MK I have no idea. We caught Tubana & MK reinforcing a couple of WC sieges against us and attacking a couple of our sieges against WC.
I contacted Tubana to find out what was going on and give him a chance to keep MK out of the war. He basically told me to F-Off (in so many words)....
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2011 at 22:21
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Well, while I was pissed-off about Tubana's lying to me (about his communications with H? and Dlord), I am proud of the fact that MK lost no cities in the conflict. I beleived then, as now, that Tubana deserved elimination for the simple reason that when full-scale operations opened against MK, Tubana said "I quit." To me, that was the captain of the ship being the first person off the ship after running it into the shoals. He disgraced himself. And left me to clean up his mess and find a way to protect smaller members under siege for no actions of their own.
All of this stuff explains why I prefer playing as a solo alliance with no responsibility to protect or provide for other members. And I also learned that in Illy the person most capable to protect and provide for me is me.
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Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2011 at 04:33
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I'm happy to say that not all alliances are like that. I'm proud to know that the players in my alliance have my back as I have theirs. If it weren't so, we'd fall to the next enemy even if they paled in comparison to WC's ilk.
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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 21:50
Ah, thanks TD for correction. I misinterpreted the Diplomatic Status of VIC there (there still stands a war against SWQ...)
Seems Illyriads history narrows down on few persons, some of them not very nice/trustable, and therefor switching alliances like mad  Others are rightfully (or, however, not...) angry about those action and going for them...
And thus, History is created! It strucks me, it's like in Reality, just with other names! 
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Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 03:19
It is always a select few that truly make history...and at their own expense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn6SxiIXFds - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn6SxiIXFds
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