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07MAR11 - Diplomatic Unit Data & Changes

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: News & Announcements
Forum Name: News & Announcements
Forum Description: Changes, patch release dates, server launch dates, downtime notifications etc.
Printed Date: 24 Jun 2021 at 18:23
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 -

Topic: 07MAR11 - Diplomatic Unit Data & Changes
Posted By: Illyriad Admin
Subject: 07MAR11 - Diplomatic Unit Data & Changes
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2011 at 15:25

In the forthcoming new version of the User Interface (UIv2) we're showing, for the first time, Diplomatic Unit attack and defense values so that players can gauge how strong or weak their diplomatic units are in certain areas vs other units.

This data isn't in the current v1 User Interface, so we felt we should publish it here.

Our game balance team also took this opportunity to provide some more diversity between the units in terms of:
  • Unit build time
  • Thief carrying capacity, and
  • Movement speed
Most units will have had these values changed - generally upwards - and these changes come into effect immediately for all units in both User Interfaces.  

Currently moving diplomatic units are *not* affected by movement speed changes until the next time you send them out on a mission.

In general, your T1 (first) unit is stronger in Defence than your T2 (second) unit for each pairing, which is stronger in Attack - when you compare their values weighted by their upkeep cost.  So, bang for buck, you get better defence with T1 units, and better attack with T2 units.

Please note that the Build time in minutes is the base build time, and that upgrading your Consulate speeds this up, as do certain Sovereignty Structures.

So, without further ado, here are the important figures for Diplomatic Units.

Type Race Unit Build (mins) Speed Carry Attack Defense
Scout Human Scout 11 17 0 15 17
Scout Human Ranger 16 22 0 34 28
Scout Elf Tracker 13 22 0 18 20
Scout Elf Outrider 19 30 0 40 36
Scout Dwarf Sentry 12 14 0 14 17
Scout Dwarf Watcher 17 18 0 33 31
Scout Orc Hunter 10 18 0 15 17
Scout Orc Stalker 15 20 0 36 30
Spy Human Agent 17 17 0 17 21
Spy Human Spymaster 22 23 0 39 37
Spy Elf Waysman 19 21 0 14 17
Spy Elf Farseer 24 28 0 32 32
Spy Dwarf Observer 18 16 0 15 17
Spy Dwarf Keeper of Secrets 22 19 0 36 30
Spy Orc Goblin Spy 15 18 0 16 16
Spy Orc Listener In The Dark 20 21 0 35 27
Thief Human Burglar 22 15 59 15 16
Thief Human Master Thief 27 22 64 38 30
Thief Elf Rogue 25 19 50 14 17
Thief Elf Dark Elf 30 25 54 31 29
Thief Dwarf Footpad 24 14 57 18 20
Thief Dwarf Halfling 29 16 60 39 36
Thief Orc Goblin Cutpurse 21 17 71 14 18
Thief Orc Plunderer 25 20 76 34 28
Saboteur Human Saboteur 34 15 0 15 17
Saboteur Human Agent Provocateur 44 22 0 35 29
Saboteur Elf Elven Pruner 40 17 0 14 17
Saboteur Elf Dark Elf Saboteur 49 25 0 34 32
Saboteur Dwarf Sapper 37 13 0 16 17
Saboteur Dwarf Underminer 45 19 0 36 34
Saboteur Orc Goblin Saboteur 30 16 0 17 20
Saboteur Orc Arsonist 40 19 0 40 35
Assassin Human Cutthroat 49 16 0 18 18
Assassin Human Assassin 64 22 0 39 35
Assassin Elf Willowblade 55 18 0 15 17
Assassin Elf Night Shade 69 24 0 34 30
Assassin Dwarf Executioner 52 14 0 14 17
Assassin Dwarf Deep Dweller 65 18 0 33 31
Assassin Orc Poisoner 45 17 0 15 17
Assassin Orc Iqadron Acolyte 60 19 0 36 30



Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2011 at 16:08
I wish dwarves weren't slow as cold molasses. 

Posted By: Raritor
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2011 at 22:30
Thanks for the information. I read long time ago that T1 were better defenders, but it is good to have it written.

I still do not completely understand how these values act. i have lost many units while making minor thefts, i guess consulate level is important (both for attack, and deffend?) and there's a random factor as well, but i'd like to understand it better before i lost another group of thousands.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2011 at 23:01
I would like to confirm that these Attack and Defense Values are UNCHANGED from the last several months.  I.e., My experience on attack and defense remains valid.  Thank you.

Posted By: Smoking GNU
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2011 at 19:41
At least the dwaarf has excellent thievery skills (well, halflings, technically), and pretty good Sabots.

Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2011 at 21:09
Those thiefesy dwarvezes (to quote a certain golum)...

Posted By: bow locks
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2011 at 22:30

omigod, spellchecker has hobbits

Posted By: RuneMage
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 10:59
Problem with dipl units having different speed and carry capacities is that these attributes help identify the race of the unknown diplomats and thus their owner. One of the intriguing point about the diplomatic units is the ability to stay unknown.

Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 15:14
That's not a problem, it's a reward for people using their heads to solve problems and catch inconsistencies in less-cleverly-constructed framings.

Posted By: King EAM
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 02:09
I wish we could see the current stats to see how exactly they will change.

"It's hard to know until you're a Crow"

Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 03:22
King, the Current Stats are at the opening post.  The OLD stats are at IllyWiki still.

Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 15:25
Yet again... Elves and Humans get the best perks. Orcs (and also dwarves to an extent) get the proverbial piled onto them.

In late game, at the moment, saboteurs are 100% useless. What's the point in being able to extend construction/research ques once a city has stopped building any new constructions and finished the tech tree anyways? So there the Orc special diplo unit is a complete waste.

On the other hand. Humans get strong Assassins, the most important diplo unit in my opinion. And totally vital unit in seige situations, that can completely change the outcome of a close fought battle/war. They ALSO get strong spies as an additional perk. Though spies are not an essential diplo unit, they still have uses for advanced players which is why I rank them third equal with thieves in terms of usefulness.

Elves again get the fastest units by a wide margin, as expected, and as big a perk as ever... and when you combine this with them getting the strongest scouts (the second most important diplo unit) the elf diplo perks come in at a close second.

And dwarves get left with good thieves. Sure, thieves are fun to play with I won't deny, but they don't effect the outcome of wars between guilds at all. Any player can shift valuable resources away from a city targetted by thieves to another city of theirs or a friend within seconds. And when you combine that with the slowness of the dwarven theives you're left with a diplo unit that can only cause a faint irritation to an enemy at best.

So yes, I will keep my old opinion: That any new player who doesn't start as elf or human is putting themselves at a large disadvantage before they've even started playing.

Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 20:04
I do think sabos should be able to affect buildings already constructed, with certain types of building more vulnerable/likely to be targeted than others (storehouses and libraries, for example).

Influence like that would recover some of diplomacy's missing relevance.

And of course the whole "all-or-nothing" attack coupled with pristinely secure defense has always been rather unfortunate.  I believe that alone is the primary factor driving diplomacy into irrelevance/non-usefulness.

Posted By: Mr. Ubiquitous Feral
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 22:16
I have another great idea!  The consulate would allow me to build both offensive and defensive diplomatic units, but not one that is both.  A new research chain would be developed in order to make our 007's as good or as bad as we want.  They would be upgradeable as the military commanders are.  This one's free, I hereby give up all claims to copyright.

I am a Machine.

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