Some interesting responses there, well meant I imagine.  However they are inaccurate particularly your first post Lionz Heartz.  I don't post too often here, but as I generally respect the views of yourself and Waylander when I do read the forum, I thought it necessary to make an exception.

Firstly, although it isn't very clear from Noki's well written first post, all of those events took place well over 6 months ago - I have been with DB since September of last year and until now had never even heard of Champs.  The latter events, namely the attacks on Aberdon and other smaller alliance members, started without warning around 5 or 6 weeks ago - almost exactly a week oddly enough after the conclusion of a NAP agreement with Crows and Calcr in particular.

Second, there is no doubt whatsoever that Champs are being supported by Calcr members, those support troops also being used to break the seige, hence it's failure - I have scout reports to prove that.  So this is not DB 'picking on the little guy' - the 'little guy' in this case picked the fight (I don't think that something which happened 7 or more months ago is a valid excuse to start a war do you?).  Additionally, prior to attacking, Champs had made sure that all was in place so when we responded we would be surprised and unlikely to succeed.

Why can we not win as Noki says?  Simple really, our hands have been tied.  Contrary to popular belief, DB does not break its word, so when an NAP or any other agreement is made, we will not be the ones who break it.  We know that the main support is from Calcr, but we cannot take any action without breaking our given word.  A pity others do not view agreements in the same light, but that is the way of things I guess.  Calcr has not technically broken the NAP, although I wouldn't like to argue that in a court of law, and I think are hoping that we will be seen to break the NAP thus confirming the continued view that the community has of DB.  We are consistantly seen as the 'bad guys' as far as I can tell, so who would be surprised if we were seen to break a NAP agreement?  I believe that we are actually facing at least 3 different alliances, possibly more hence the need for assistance - if these alliances will attack without provocation then it is only a matter of time before they do the same to someone else.

Last of all, in response to your charge of warmongering and hypocrisy, this is a false illusion that I have noticed seems to be associated with DB.  I cannot argue that we don't enjoy a fight, Illyriad is also a war game after all.  I cannot also comment on what went on many months ago before I joined DB - I wasn't there, so I do not have the details to comment either way.

What I can say with some certainty is that since I joined DB, there has been no war that was not actually started first by another alliance, from my time with them this has been TMM (now gone I think) and http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/view_alliance.asp?DisplayAllianceID=87 - Calaquendi who half way through the war, merged into Crows.

This recent war was started without warning when attacks were suddenly sent by members of Champs.  Naturally we responded and it was during this I found that support had been provided by Calacr.  Latterly Love World Order (LWO) also started to send attacks, again with no provocation or warning.

Given this, I hope you can see that DB is not in fact a 'warmongering' alliance, nor is it guilty of hypocrisy - it has simply responded to attacks as I imagine any other alliance on Illyriad would.  I think I have made up for several months of non-posting with this post, so I'll finish for now and leave you to make up your own minds now that you have the truth of the matter.

Ector the Fury wrote: Isnt Champ just getting support from their confederations? Seems completely fair to me. Why doesnt DB just call in some of their own confederations instead of asking for ANY alliance to support them? Kinda hard to cry for help after causing so much turmoil in the past.

Hello Ector, it is good to see you here.  I am sorry that I didn't get your reply to my mail in-game, but that is the postal service for you

The first point you raise is very logical and valid - we have done so now that we are aware of a war going on that we knew nothing about.  However, as I have explained at length in previous posts, the issue is not quite as simple as that.

I did point out to you that the onset of the Champs attacks, just days after the declaration of peace with Calcr who just happened to be in a confederation with them, was more than just coincidental.  The advent of LWO joining a short time later also confirmed that suspicion. 

From where I sit, and DB member or not, I always try to look at things from all sides - there is a deliberate attempt to goad an escalation of this conflict to involve all of Crow.  In essence, you are being used - I would hope, as I said to you, unknowingly, but you are being used.

If you put the sequence together, you will see I hope, why I have reached this conclusion.  DB was in a war with Cala - half way through this when it was clear they were losing, they decided to accept a merge into Crows which they had apparently been discussing for some time.  Crows then became involved and commenced mediation backed by attacks, this lead to a NAP being agreed (we enjoy the challenge of a good fight, but we aren't crazy enough to take on the combined Crow alliances).  Before 'the ink was dry' on the NAP agreement, attacks commenced from Champs with no warning on DB members, Champs being in a confederation with Cala, latterly Calcr.  DB responded only to find Calcr supporting Champs, namely Tinuviel  -  who, let's be honest, is Calcr..

A few days later, LWO also launch attacks - who also just happen to be in confederation with Calcr and have been long since prior to the merge.

So, from that, the only conclusion that I can reach is that Calcr are continuing the war from behind the screen of Crow. 

I would like to ask you the same question I posed earlier in my posts - If you were a smaller alliance, less than half the size of your intended target alliance and you knew that alliance had a reputation for aggression, would you risk your entire alliance by attacking it without reason and without knowing you had major support in your pocket?  I don't think you would unless I have made a massive mistake in judgment of you, you aren't that daft!

Kinda hard to cry for help after causing so much turmoil in the past.

I know, as again I have already mentioned, that DB has a reputation for aggression.  That does not mean that it is actually deserved nor is it the instigator of those aggressions in the main.  DB did commence a war against TMM last November, however there were reasons for that which I am sure that others can explain far better than myself.  I can only repeat what I have already said here before - since my time with DB from Sep last year, any aggressive act has been initiated by another alliance, and DB quite rightly have responded.

So, personally speaking anyway, I do not believe that anything the alliance may have or have not done over 7 months ago is any justification for you claim there my friend.

As for the calling for help - well, that is down to our having our hands tied, a point I have also mentioned to you in my mail and here in this thread.  Once your word is given, you do not break it - just because this is a game does not allow you to ignore that.  I am very pleased to see that DB works to that principal and that is why I am with them.  So we cannot attack the source of support unless of course, as I did ask you in my in-game mail, the position of Crows is clarified to untie our hands?

 [EDIT by TC: Fixed broken formatting]

Greetings All

Although I had been hoping to heal from the ailments which I woke up with on Saturday, from the common trend in the posts I have been reading I feel a need to post from a DB leader (even though I would prefer to think of myself as solely a player).  I will preface this post by apologizing to everyone who is looking to read something short because there are many points which I would like to cover surrounding the past five pages. Bear with me J

For background, going way back to the beginning with posts by Waylander, as Baldrick explained the beginning to this bad blood began before September 2010 (time when I joined). In the beginning war, Antoninius (a player who has now since retired from the game) attacked a player who he believed to be inactive. Although through better observation theoretically he should have been able to determine that the leader of the Anguireals wasn’t inactive, that small slip-up is small offense that many people have made before and many will make in the time to come. Through the course of the following war, many of the anguireal clan were suspended from the game. This current war which we are involved in was started by an unprovoked attack  against one of our smallest players on Feb 10^th, 3 days after I reached a spoken agreement with 3F3 resolving our war with the guild now known as Calaquendi Crow.

The reason we are looking for assistance is that although CHAMPS is 11 places below us on the guild ranking scale and as such should be beatable, we have scout and battle reports specifically showing that they have received attacking assistance from LWO and defensive assistance (which I will cover later) from Calcr. Seeing as Calcr is just about the same size as us, their defensive troops have been essential to the holding off of our attacking troops. In correlation to this, Birds17 has expressed disgust at our open invitation for assistance, yet he fails to look at the fact that since the start of this new war, CHAMPS has sent out at the very least 5 confederation offers, over half of which are to guilds larger than our own. Our open invitation is just a logical defensive action.

Now moving to the second and third pages (and any subsequent posts in later pages) the mind with which DB is fighting is not the type that can be negotiated with. This is exemplified by a message received by Vertigo from Amroth Anguireal on Feb 26, included below.

                “Hail Blight (referring to vert), It is sad to see your forces at our gates. We do well remember your kindness to some Anguireals when first we came to Illyriad. We knew you were blight but assumed you fell in with bad associates for saftey or security. To see you march with them, touches our heart with anger, yet pity.
For this reason alone I will make an offer to you. Ur welcome to check with ALL other members of your vultures guild. This offer goes to you alone. You cannot withdraw forces from our gate. These forces will be destroyed. It is on the way and messenger would not arrive in time. If we see that you have quit the Dark Blight, By end of Day. You alone of all your guild will be spared. I make this offer only once, and Behind it is not my weight alone but the combined weight of all guilds who aim to see an end to the blight. To many enemies = never good formula for success. We would heartily recommend that you heed our offer. repent of your foul deeds and associations and you will be spared. If you do not, you will be utterly destroyed. Have a good day.
Regards, Amroth Anguireal
Hail the Eternal Champions”

Finally I would like to turn your attention to the shouting match that has seemed to erupt between DB and the conglomerate of The Crows. The main point which my fellow Dark Blight members were trying to bring up in regards to Calcr, is that the timing of the situation is slightly suspicious being as we had just reached spoken NAP agreements 3 days before.  Although this timing is suspicious, it could just be a very well executed plan drawn up by CHAMP, and we are not attacking or slandering Calcr. We are just making sure that their sole purpose in this battle is similar to United Orc Scourge’s role in our war (I welcome any chiming in by Calcr leaders on the matter). Through talks with 3F3 we were informed that Calcr would be honoring their confederation by defending CHAMP cities, “of course any losses they loose are their own fault and will not be held against db” (Feb 11) which implies in my view that any attack on a CHAMP city housing Calcr defensive forces will not be considered a breach of our NAP.  As for the other Crow guilds, from the posts by some of your leaders, you seem to have a very negative feel of DB even though in the time with which I have been here (since Sept 2010) I have only seen one incident between DB and the Crows (our war), although I would be open to reports showing otherwise.  The rest of the shouting match between our guilds bears barely a reference to our current conflict, and I have no such wish to remove recently made NAP’s. I hope with time, these negative memories between our guilds will fade away.

In summation, following the post by TD on pg 4:

1.       We DB will continue this war to protect our land and players (hopefully with newfound assistance) for as long as it takes. As long as leaders such as Amroth Anguireal of CHAMP are bent upon following up a long term plot for revenge, we cannot come to a peace agreement or back down. Any such backing down will only result in a loss of cities and hard work of our players (most of which had no part in the original hostilities).

2.       We have no quarrel with the crows and are just checking to see that Calcr has no hidden motive in the quarrel. We expect that Calcr will approach this as UoS did in our past war.

3.       Finally, we are trying to reduce the game wide view of us being bloodthirsty warmongers (especially from people whose last thread centered on an ill conceived war against H? titled Operation Cleanse). Contrary to common belief, we do not just play to act as a thorn in the side of all the other players. Though wars do seem to have a way of finding us, we do enjoy just working together and talking with all of our players from Europe and America.

Once again I apologize for the length of this post, but I hope that it ties up many of the loose ends that have been brought to light. If anyone has any specific questions (that they do not want to post on the forums) I welcome them to mail me directly, with which I will try my best to quickly respond.

Sincerely

Carl Zeis

Warboss of Dark Blight 

I am not a diplomat that's why I've asked Carl Z. and Nokigon to take that role.

1st i would like to apologize to calac. who's names should have never came up in the first place. They are doing what anyone else would do in there position.

2nd For the record we are not without leadership, I've been here for a long time, and will be hear. Also Uuntaar is still here.

3rd this is a war game even if some people choice not to play it that way, that's there prerogative.

sry. one more thing, we will in no way shape or form do anything that will break the NAP. A lot of time and work was put into it, and that would be disrespectful of us. If everyone holds us in a bad light that's fine. Everyone is entitled to there opinions, like us or not.

my main is 261 192 come and get some

what would anyone do ?

if you  harm him or kill ill post your head outside my walls