Tournament Suggestions/Improvements
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: Suggestions & Game Enhancements
Forum Description: Got a great idea? A feature you'd like to see? Share it here!
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1279
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 08:07
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tournament Suggestions/Improvements
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Subject: Tournament Suggestions/Improvements
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 15:27
|
For anyone who has any input and ideas for new tournament rules and set up post it here.
------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Replies:
Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 15:29
|
There is a 30 day time limit, so a player will have to eventually send troops to occupy. So, if a player decides to not send troops at all, it is their call. However, this tournament is flawed in many ways...
1) The players in this tournament have different amounts of account population. These pops range from 2k pop to a pop well over 50k. 2) There are no restrictions for military units. 3) There are no restrictions for any player to join the tournament in terms of distance. aka there are players that are too far away from the flag, thus they will lose... How to fix these flaws? 1) There should be a account population restriction ranging from 1k-5k population, 6k-15k population, 16k-30k population, and 31k and over population. So to be in the tournament, a player has to fit in a certain population bracket in order to play in a certain population restriction tourney. For instance, a player has to have between 6k and 15k population in order to enter the 6k-15k tournament. 2) For each population bracket, there should be a certain number of military unit limit allowed for the tournament. 1k-5k population can only use 1000 units. 6k-15k population can only use 3000 units. 16k-30k population can only use 5000 units. 31k and over can only use 10000 units. A player can not use more than the units allowed in a tournament or they will lose the tournament. 3) Random locations picked by host of tournament will make the game unfair for most of the players involved. A location needs to be picked somewhere in the middle of all participants in order to have a more fair tournament. There also should be restriction for players that are too far away compared to the players that entered the tournament. For instance, if it takes 3 days or more for a players troops to reach the flag location, said player should not be in the tournament. Naturally it will be easier to run a tournament from the middle of the map compared to other locations. Nonetheless, most of the tournaments ran will have to be region based and should only allow players close enough (as in it takes 2 days or less to send army to location). ------- Another way of doing future tournaments: Instead of doing an 8 man free for all, there should be a 1 vs 1 tournament between 8 players. The winner of the round, by claiming the square for 48 hours, will get to advance to the next round. The square will be picked in the middle between both players by host of tournament (a square that is the most neutral for units). The same pop and unit restriction will be applied for the tournament as I stated above. I feel these suggestions will make the tournament have less flaws and more fair for the participants involved. |
Posted By: bartimeus
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 15:55
wouldn't it be better if the population limitation was city based rather than account based? maybe not for all tournament, but it would be nice to have some city based tournament since some players spread their citys a lot, and it would also give an opportunity for smaller player to beat a larger player (if they play with their capital against one of the big guy's latest city...) And if it is city based, some player can custumize the rules the way they want; including death-match (which would be very unatractive if your whole account could be obliterated).
Why ? what is the point of limiting population AND army size?
I personaly would prefer 3 players round. with 3 citys, it is still possible to find a tile equidistant from each players. and being 3 offers a lot more possibility and strategies than being 2... (being 2 would be more like a contest of "who has the bigest army of the right unit for the flag's terrain") A death match with 3 cities would be awesomely tactical... ------------- Bartimeus, your very best friend. |
Lionz Heartz wrote:Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 16:19
| a well didnt notice this thread b4 i posted on the other, on my phone if some1 could quote or c/p it here be much appreciated |
Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 16:25
|
"wouldn't it be better if the population limitation was city based rather than account based?" Perhaps this can be done with only one city or maybe 3 cities per account. I would support either. "what is the point of limiting population AND army size?" I do understand there are small pop players that have bigger armies compared to big pop players. However, in most cases the bigger pop accounts will have a bigger army. So this is why I support limiting pop size by account, city or 3 cities... And then on top of that only allowing a certain number of troops for each pop bracket. "I personaly would prefer 3 players round. with 3 citys, it is still possible to find a tile equidistant from each players. and being 3 offers a lot more possibility and strategies than being 2... (being 2 would be more like a contest of "who has the bigest army of the right unit for the flag's terrain") A death match with 3 cities would be awesomely tactical..." Maybe having 3 players fight for a square for each round would be something we should pursue instead of 1 vs 1. Then the winner moves on to play against another 2 players for a 3 for all again. http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/topic1279_post10411.html#10411 - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/topic1279_post10411.html#10411 |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 16:31
------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 17:12
|
Well, you could always man up and run one with all the rules you like. See how that turns out in comparison. Instead of 'debating' what is best and what doesn't work. Thats my take on it. |
Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 17:26
|
the point of the last tourney was a trial run, now we can discuss how we can make it better for the next competitors let some ideas get tossed back n forth before rushing into the next tourney, maybe here from player who didnt participate and see what would make them more interested
|
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 17:47
|
Does anyone have a pop analysis on all the players in the last one? I'm almost positive Amorphias one city was lower in pop than a number of the other competitors. Some comments being bandied around in Global about him winning because of pop are simply untrue. I do agree with the equadistant point, though. We should try to do that. I think the existing format, with handicaps (city size and number limitations) for the bigger players works quite well. We just need to make the location relatively equadistant and then I think the playing field is even more level (but you guys did a great job of getting it there in your first run!).
K.
|
Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 18:04
Information Gathered: Troop levels present, foreign reinforcements: Type: Unit: Quantity: Amorphias's forces from SW3-Pit 4 Army: Pit4 Cav Division: Sword Division: Cav Commander: Cav Unknown UnitType 1 Troops: Wolfriders 4 Troops: Death Packs 1092 Amorphias's forces from SW3-Pit 4 Army: Pit 4 Bow Division: Bow Commander: Missile Unknown UnitType 1 Troops: Death Dealers 1007 Division: Spear Commander: Spear Unknown UnitType 1 Troops: Clan Guardsmen 110 Amorphias's forces from SW3-Pit 4 Army: Pit 4 Sword Division: Sword Commander: Sword Unknown UnitType 1 Troops: Fangs 5 Troops: Fists 807 This is Killers army defending the square right now... His army is bigger than mine and he was closer to the square... I only used two towns in this tournament. Hawaii1 and Hawaii3, both together are smaller than Killers. But for you to say that his pop was much smaller than everyone elses is laughable at best. |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 18:08
|
lol those armies are bigger than all of mine combined in all cities(for now)
BUT PLEASE PEOPLE THIS POST IS FOR SUGGESTIONS NOT ABOUT OTHER THINGS, WE"RE TRYING TO IMPROVE TOURNAMENTS ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 19:30
| I looked at it and you're right. He has more pop in that city than most of the players total pop. I think as a suggestion, what the organizers should balance is total pop. So the big guys can be limited to one city, but make sure that that city is comparable to the pop of the other competitors cities combined... |
Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 21:13
| er...shouldn't this be merged into lionz heartz earlier post, or at least be moved to the suggestions & game enhancements forum? |
Posted By: iluvpie3
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 22:15
|
3 words:Regional Based Tournaments.All I'm saying. |
Posted By: CranK
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 22:41
I always said that KP would win the tournament. Yes he had the biggest military army in this tournament. But he also used very good strategical moves as I also stated in a few of my posts:
He won the tournament because he used the best strategical moves. Same goes for duuvian because he also was a player that used very nice strategical moves. I do agree that most of the other players just didn't had the chance to use such moves as a advantage simple because their towns where just too far away. But I have to disagree that KP won the tournament only because he had the biggest troops... My suggestions for the next tournament are: - Regional tournaments where players don't have to travel for +3days just to arrive. - Population based tournaments. Simply to stop the discussion about ''you won because you are bigger'' etc. |
Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 23:15
|
I believe Grunk tried to make it regional-ish... well, the whole southwest. Its hard to get a high # of participants per region considering it... |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 23:22
|
Making the tournament have less players is always an option if there are not enough to join.
Myself i think one way to cap off tournament is barracks level, which tells you what kind of troops that can be built, but that doesn't seem to be very popular. The distance seems to have been the main factor in this turnament and there should be something done to eliminate that somewhat.
Also limiting the troop amounts is the best way to put a cap on tournaments, although that would be hard ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: bartimeus
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 23:26
|
Godsdestroyer is right about saying barrack level is the true limit. any strong player could simply ship gold to a new city to pretend it is weak (low pop) but it would have a huge army living off shipped gold...
------------- Bartimeus, your very best friend. |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 22:30
|
The pop sizes ranged from 3K to 15K in this tournament and the army sizes from 500 => 4500 (estimated) - I had 3600. By my calc Smoking GNU and Duuvian had approx 8.5-9K troops between them which combined with Smoking saying in global that he had 4.5k approx means duuvian had about the same (I think). The interesting thing about that is that someone with 1/3 the pop (5000 vs 15000) had 1/3 more troops. My conclusion from that is that the only way to limit "size" is just by troop count/upkeep. Doing it by pop or barracks level will still result in massive mismatches. I mean, Imagine if the Tourney had been a 3K - 5K pop limit. Duuvian would have wiped the floor with everyone. Making the Tourney limited by upkeep does two things: 1) It adds more strategy since players have to decide what types of troops to use to make the best of the upkeep limit. 2) It avoids any issues around small people with huge armies and larger people with small armies being mismatched. With regards distance - we really need the ability to stage troops at an empty square (at a minimum distance from the flag) then you can keep an eye on which troops are there (for the upkeep limits) and prevent issues with players being too far off. |
Posted By: bartimeus
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 23:19
|
hopefully when portals are introduced we won't have such a big problem with distance... we could just make a portal in each quadrant... ------------- Bartimeus, your very best friend. |
Posted By: Noryasha Grunk
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 04:32
|
See, the problem I can see is that the advantage goes to the people who were actually prepared for battle. I have a population smaller than Lion, for example. SIGNIFICANTLY smaller. And yet his troop contribution was middling at best, he clearly didn't have decent speed commanders, and he obviously wasn't prepare, because despite my smaller size I have well in excess of 9k troops. That is OVER 9000 troops. And I'm on peace footing right now! And the tourney WAS regional. Sort of. |
Posted By: Grunvagr
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 04:35
| ....IT's OVER 9000!!!! |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 04:50
|
anyone ever look at my troop contribution compared to population? I was not prepared at all. And my human soldiers seem to die a lot easier... ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Noryasha Grunk
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 04:55
| And hyu STILL got second. :P |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 05:01
| Nory did say it was SW region. |
Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 10:04
Wow, what a stupid statement by you. |
Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 10:52
| Grunk you are not fit to host a tournament since you are unable to take criticism. It is part of the job, deal with it or cry home to mama. |
Posted By: -hypocritical-
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 13:11
 just when you need a laugh, thanks |
Posted By: Noryasha Grunk
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 13:47
|
Of course hI can take criticism. Other people hef pointed out flaws in da tourney. But dey did it vitout beink rude and insultink. Or annoyink, vhich is maybe da vorst vone. Trust me, hI do not hef my feelinks hurt! But dis still means var. It is a matter of honour. And dis vill not be vone of da fun sorts of vars dat hI hef had vit others. |
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 15:31
|
I don't see this as being a problem. Why should people have a good chance of winning if they aren't prepared to do battle? Why did they even join? It's like saying a couch potato should have a chance at winning a professional boxing match. Maybe you didn't realize the quality of your competition or what constitutes a sizable army. So you joined anyway, and had no chance of actually competing. After realizing your mistake, you can either decide not to compete next time, or start training now so you can compete competently next time. |
Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 00:44
All you have to do is send me a picture of yourself in real life. If you look like Megan Fox in real life, I will say I am sorry. If not, cry home to mommy. lol |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 07:05
I believe your complaining and
 about the tournament should be posted in a different place.This is not a place for anything other than improvement suggestions of tournaments, make your own thread if you wish to complain.
If you want to fight it out over the tournament then do so, it'll be a nice show while we wait for something to happen. ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Sir Spamalot
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 14:44
|
After reading through the thoughts posted here, I wonder if perhaps the developers could do one of two things. 1) After the flag square has been selected, a staging ground could be established. This would be an area where armies from different players could be housed without coming into conflict with each other. At the start of the tourney, they could sally forth when commanded. This eliminates the distance problem. 1.5) The staging area could also be used to establish predetermined limits on army size. For instance, the organizer might decide each competitor could use no more than 10,000 units. The make-up of that army would be up to the competitor, but the total number of units could not exceed the cap set by the organizer. The competitor would also decide at what point to send units out along with what type of units and how many. 2) The developers could establish a dedicated arena for these tourneys. When a player signs up to compete, she creates her army for the tourney, and it is magically transported to the arena. Each competitor would start from a different square at the edge of the area, thereby ensuring an equidistant starting distance for all. This would also help eliminate long travel times to the tourney site. 2.5) I think this could also be modified to set army size limits if desired, and to determine when and how many reinforcements could be sent to the arena.
|
Posted By: Lionz Heartz
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 15:17
|
I feel in order for the tournament to work better in the future, there needs to be buy-ins for the players that want to enter the tournament. The top 3 place finishers will get the loot based on a percentage etc. I really do not like the idea we have now that the host, admins, and watchers of the tournament will provide loot for the player. I find this to be stupid and not able to work for the long-term. I got a message from GM Stormcrow that said he and the devs will not be offering anymore loot for tournaments. He wants the players to run the tournament and provide the loot. Here are some examples I have in mind for loot: 1) Gold buy-in, I am not sure how much, but I figure when gold is worth something by the time TRADE v2 comes out this could work and we can figure out a good gold buy in for the tournament. 2) Would be weapons, leathers or something... Not sure how much, but I think it will be hard for all players to provide 1000 cows etc or more to just enter... 3) Maybe once trade v 2 comes out we can provide the military units you can purchase from trade v 2.... Just some thoughts I have to make loot work better. |
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 17:12
To be fair, I didn't completely rule it out for the future. I think it is extremely likely that in the future we will "officially" organise some kind of regularly scheduled tournament(s) with more of these unique rewards. This is likely to take the form of an individual tournament and an alliance tournament. However, we are snowed under atm with everything that's being prepared for UI v2 and Trade v2, and we do have many other things on the dev list, and so "official" tournaments are probably many moons away. In the meantime, we are most keen on further player-run tournaments being organised - or at the very least the mechanics of how they might work being discussed actively in this thread. If it turns out (and I hope it doesn't) that the consensus amongst the playerbase is that dev involvement is a sine qua non of organising future tournaments then we may as well wait for "official" tournaments further down the line. But I fear it'll be quite a long wait. Regards, SC |