New Players & Territorialism after the "Move"
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1213
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: New Players & Territorialism after the "Move"
Posted By: Starry
Subject: New Players & Territorialism after the "Move"
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 23:18
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I'm seeing a disturbing trend in Illyriad these days as a consequence of the ability to move. Attacks are up on new players because they either have the misfortune of being placed in the wrong territory (areas claimed by alliances) or they've moved unknowingly into an alliance area. As a consequence, some alliances have taken the stance that anyone in their area needs to move or they will be eliminated. It doesn't matter if the new player is peaceful, it doesn't matter that they are defenseless. Case in point, one of my new members messaged me that he was receiving threats from an alliance. He had been given an ultimatum to move or be attacked. For the record, he did plan to move but was not sure of the location. Before I could get the details, I received this message:
Before I could respond to the message, our new member (pop 134) was under attack by AVa64 (score: 3336919).
There is no honor in bullying new players, there is no goodwill when an alliance attacks before they receive a reply from the alliance leader. Expecting my members to move is ridiculous and arrogant. These are new players (or staff that helps new players), we have always been and will continue to be a peaceful training alliance.
My point is that there is a growing trend of intolerance toward any new player who has the misfortune of being in an alliance area. Frankly, claiming an entire province is ridiculous in my mind but there are those arrogant to think they can get away with it. Instead of being tolerant toward new players why are they are driven from this game? It's nothing short of being a bully and a short-sighted one at that. We've all been in games that stagnated due to the lack of new players. The Devs are working hard to keep this game fresh and challenging, new players will guarantee the continuation of this game. It does not mean exclusivity to existing players; driving new players out of this game will only shorten its lifespan. I’m asking the players of Illyriad to be tolerant of new
players, you might just find new member to your alliance or an ally down the
road. New players are not a threat to your alliance
and while I know you may have to adjust your moving plans, there is plenty of
space for all of us to play this game. One note and question to Nige: You are in an area loaded with new players, while many may not be active, does this mean you are going to siege every new player in that region? Inquiring minds want to do know...... |
Replies:
Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 23:56
| Wow, that is ALOT of warning time. /sarcasm |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 00:13
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i can claim all newbies near me? u know i wouldnt kill em right away..... XD jk nah new people should be tolerated they cant help where they start so yea live and let live? ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 02:02
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I think that Starry's good will is worth quite a lot, Nige... Hell hath no fury as a Starry wronged... |
Posted By: lep
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 02:43
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Your clan mate is not the only one to have received these dishonourable attacks, one of my clan mates was stuck being constantly attacked and unable to move to us because of the 0 pop blocking bug.
Attacking all low level players just because of a general location in a province is just going to drive players away from the game and frankly is not "an honourable stance" in any way shape or form for any sane or reasonable person. New players are already stressed from not being able to farm inactive players any more and from being increased targets themselves because inactives don't supply resources any more so as an active newbie they get robbed. Having said that however that new players are appearing adjacent to existing players is going to lead to problems. As many players are planning sovereign terrains and its totally unfair on the newbies to spawn so close as it is quite reasonable then for an established player to insist the newly spawned one moves away, there really should be no spawning closer than 3 terrains to an active player, preferably 5. |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 03:12
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Lep, you do have a valid point with new player placement. I'm sure it's just the way the Devs have written the program for new player placement but I agree, it's dooming new players if they are put directly next to an established city. It does seem to be happening more and more. Perhaps the Devs could tweek the program so that it leaves more space between new and existing players. I'm sorry to hear about your clan mate, I fear there will be many more stories about new players being run out of the game. It's my hope that alliances start taking a stand against this behavior. |
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 04:10
| Perhaps, as mobility increases, there can be parts of the map (like Middle Kingdom) that are actually designated as newbie-protected territories. Then all new players could be seeded there with the option to move when ready. |
Posted By: scottfitz
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 04:25
| As soon as the town moving spell and it's 10 square safe zone limitation is no longer an issue, this will die down for all but the most evil of alliances, I for one would feel obligated to assist any new players appearing in my "territory", whether they joined my alliance or not. |
Posted By: Jerec Cross
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 06:32
| Perhaps there would be benefits in extending New Player Protection out a bit. |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 13:52
That is an excellent idea! |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 15:43
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I see two problems here: 1) TMM failed to advertise their desire to claim the region (perhaps because they were afraid someone might want to thwart them). This means that some players have used their teleport spell to move to a new region but have then found themselves directly in the firing line and now have no way to escape short of being exterminated and starting again. 2) The region in question is (as Starry says) in an area where new players will be popping up frequently. It seems as though those new players will be immediately given ultimatums - "join us or die". While that is, of course, a legitimate playing style and I definitely see the fun and desire behind wanting to 'own' an entire region - being unfriendly to noobs is not a great way to make friends in this game especially with several power blocs expressly interested in protecting new players.... |
Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 15:57
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Short Version: 1) Being a very territorial alliance, you unwittingly claimed and settled newbie spawn territory. 2)There may be a problem with that down the line if you insist on enforcing that claim against new players. |
Posted By: CranK
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 16:31
This is a really good idea. Altho I hate the fact that such a idea even needs to be concidered... |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 16:58
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I agree Crank, new players should not be driven out of this game. As hard as the Devs are working to keep this game interesting, perhaps it is time the players take a stand on this issue. Btw, I did receive a reply from Nige regarding his claim to that area and his stance on attacking new players (including T members):
Obivously, this guy does not know me, I've always taken a stand to help new players, as have others in this game. My reply:
I sincerely hope Nige changes his stance on this issue. For the record, many people have suggested we start a second new player alliance (T2), while I have resisted the suggestion, it may be the only hope for some new players to continue in this game. I urge all alliances to accept and nurture new players, not only are they the future of this game but they will enhance your alliance. |
Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 17:10
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The problem is, finding another leader with your sort of dedication/ideology to the 'job' at hand... Another problem I figure is the alliance chat... it'll be empty for the new alliance for awhile... without the same people the player is accustomed/inclined to speak with... Everything else can be put into place along the lines of protection and what-not.... And there are definitely a number of smaller alliances willing to take in newbs, but more on a I want to keep this player slant. |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 17:19
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Please message me ingame if you are willing to take on new players, there are more than we can handle and T2 will fill up quickly if our messages are any indication. I would be happy to refer new players to any alliance that will help them learn the game and get built up. At least let's give them a chance to learn the game. |
Posted By: Sheogorath
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 20:40
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I Agree With You Starry,While My Is Heavily Focused In The Reigion Of Frenmor And We Treat It As our Area,I would Allow Other Player To Live And Prosper.Who Knows,The Person You Bullied Could Have Been Your Greatest Ally.Furthermor If A newb is In Your Area,Why Not Be Kind and Help thim out,Not Bully Them For Taking Up one square In your "Territory".Like I said Before,The Could Be Your Greatest Ally ------------- =Colonialism At Its Finest= |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 21:53
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We may disagree on the way we percieve Illyriad, but the introduction of player-made kingdoms/realms strike me as perfectly natural. Obviously I dont condone claiming the central areas where new players spawn - which is why, as Sheo mentions above we have chose to populate the outskirt area of Fremorn. I do not however take the newbie side of this discussion in all cases. If you do not wish to move you have to be diplomatic about it. I would myself never attack a player unless I deemed that he in some way posed a threat to me or infringed on a trade monopoly (which is not a factor untill crafting enters the game), but I understand how players who ignore all communication and warnings can piss off players who have worked long and hard to realise what they believe a natural part of the game, and try to avoid needless treading on others. I myself would approve of more Illyriad named alliances eg. Kingdom of Keshalia, Chiefdom of the northern wastes, Duchy of Zanpur and less "Harmless?" "Toothless?" etc. It makes the world seem far more thought through and strengthen any idea of Illyriad having a history/storyline in common. I realise I may be alone with this perspective but nevertheless, thats how I feel. Why else would the developers go to such lengths writing elaborate backgrounds for the respective factions? I would in the case above say that strong players should rather seek away from the central areas and seek out the challenges in the outskirts, if nothing else to make the central areas less crowded. Hope issues like this can be resolved in a proper fashion, after all the map is huge and most of it is nowhere near populated yet. |
Posted By: KarL Aegis
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 22:24
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I think I might know someone who would help the newbies. Someone who is still with us. ------------- I am not amused. |
Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 01:49
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who? ------------- Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo.... |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 01:50
comeon karl who??? ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 02:18
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I've received messages of support for new players from many alliances, thank you so much. I know that many alliances do help and support new players in this game. I will be forming another branch of Toothless tonight and I now have a growing list of alliances that are willing to take in new players. I do believe that pressure needs to applied on any alliance that drives new players from the game; it matters not the excuse, it is bullying and needs to be stopped. SC, would it be possible to adjust the new player placement program to not put new players within five squares of an existing city? There are players that want to claim sovereignty and I've seen that used as a reason for attacking new players. There has to be some middle ground or new players will suffer for it. It would also help if players who created accounts and left immediately (zero pop and not logged in for 30 days) are automatically deleted. It might just help those new players that are serious about trying the game. |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 07:57
Yes Karl who is it? can't be shrapnel, although he would help. Come on tell us we got lots of  ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 03:03
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Nige, friendly reminder: Llyorn likes Starry. Killer Poodle likes Llyorn. Llyorn likes Starry. Follow? |
Posted By: Fateful Ending
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 05:05
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umm. did you say you liked starry twice for a reason?
Anyway I'd like to know if Karl is just winding everyone up for attention, or actually has something useful to input.
|
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 05:34
same! ------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2010 at 14:37
For those who have the misfortune of being located in this province, be advised that TMM is not changing their stance, they will attack anyone not in their alliance.
Many players cannot move out of this area and are peaceful. TMM's position is that it does not matter, peaceful or not, players will be removed by them. There is no honor in driving small defenseless players from the game. Nige can sugar coat it all he wants but he and TMM ARE bullies; most of the players in that area are new players being hit as soon as their protection expires. I urge all alliance leaders to take a stand against this alliance's wholesale attacks on new and peaceful players that cannot move or are so new to the game, they feel they don't have a chance. For the record, Toothless is a peaceful new player alliance, many of our members do not have the capability to protect themselves yet. We DO protect our own and will not tolerate any attacks on our members. TMM, you have been warned. Edit: Toothless will continue to accept new players from all areas including TMM's area. Players, if you receive any distress messages from new players, please ask them to message me at T? we'll gladly take them in. |
Posted By: lep
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2010 at 20:15
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Go Starry.
I'm starting to like Starry too :-) |
Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2010 at 20:46
starry- maybe you should explain the concept of niceness to him  .------------- Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo.... |
Posted By: Noryasha Grunk
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2010 at 21:42
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hI can't stand dese types of guys. A fights a fight and dats fun, but dese guys? Deys vot ve like to call big jerks. hI'd be happy to help a little, hya? But ve are about as far avay from dem as ve could be, so hI don't tink dere's much hI can do. |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 17:24
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Well if what he says is true that he doesn't use diplomats, then at least he has some honor. I will give him that. He needs to consider other players though. ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 18:06
Hah. Honor. Who's brand of honor are we talking about? Cause I'm sure others have a different perception of what is honorable, dishonorable and neither. I know mine is quite different. |
Posted By: CranK
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 18:11
| Honour in attacking these players thats are not even a 10th your size? And its honourable that you don't use thiefs? LOL!? Its like... you are unarmed, so I will not use this shotgun. I will stab you with this knife instead. |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 00:10
I did not say he was honorable for attacking small players.
And yes i would kill you with a knife if you were unarmed, unless i was in a hurry to get somewhere  ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |