Good Lord! We have a classicist in our midst...

 she's so sweet but i dun want dominion or whatever me wants to be wubzed :D 

If Farra Isle was a square (which it's not) it would be 14,399 squares. That kind of pales in comparison to the roughly 70,000 squares that surround all H? cities. Just saying. 

I fully intend to move to Farra Isle, and out of courtesy I won't move to within 15 squares of a StA city without asking. If you turn down my request, I will finf somewhere else. But I regard Farra Isle as a region, right? And you're saying that you own that region.

Lets cast our minds back to the last people who claimed a region....... Oh yeah, TMM.

Now I appreciate that TMM were far, far worse, but it's sort of similar, isn't it?

 

As Lawn says, I withold my right to move to the island, and I had planned to far before this had come out. I need a naval city.

 

I don't mean to condone the claims made by H? for 10 square radiuses or insult STa, but H? has definitely got the firepower to back it up when it comes to their claims.  

I don't know if this kind of forum proclamation is the best method for sTa.  While it's definitely very brave...  Wouldn't it best be done through diplomatic agreements concerning the island with the major alliances in the game first?

If you disagree, I'd like to make a claim on the state of Keppen... Not by MCrow, but as myself personally.  I want to be queen of Keppen, and anyone who moves there should do what I say because I posted it here!  

No one said you were doing the exact same thing, but making similiarly grandiose demands concerning territory.  It doesn't matter that it's not one specific  plot, it's a demand.  And for those who have the reading comprehension of a shellfish:  Anjire, I will also point out that I didn't criticize H?  I said their demand was more reasonable because of their ability to enforce it.

So for those troll-like commentators: Anjire.  Lay off.

Bow

Thanks!

I'm not saying they were both perfect examples but they do have a lot of similarities. H? isn't telling people they can't move to X province but they are saying they don't want you within 10 squares of any of the roughly 700 cities they have unless they give you permission. I just find it a little hypocritical for you to back up your own claim but then say a smaller (and still very similar) one is invalid. 

That is in my mind different than claiming an area and demanding that others not settle in it.  Rather, it points to the fact that not even Harmless? is making such a claim.

Honestly, boys...

G0DsDestroyer wrote: Well if someone wants to move to an island then they can fight one of StA's member's for it, not a battle to the death, just a tournament kinda thing. And I don't mean this to apply to everyone, for instance, not new players. Just my opinion though. And Brids, I'm sure Crow has more than 70,000 squares, considering that Crow has what 7, 8? alliances.

The exact number of interesting spots I've found in over 50 days with distance 10sq to any existing town is zero.

My point is that did anyone actually want to settle on Farra Isle before this? If you did and you have a spot outside the 10 square courtesy-zone then decide if your alliance are powerful enough to defend the spot. If they are, ask your leadership for permission and go ahead as planned. If StA wish to attempt to remove you, that is their prerogative. Theoretically, anyone can claim any square they want. 

jane,

Who was that directed at? I ask this since I am very concerned about the relative rotation of celestial orbs and my own personal place in the overall scheme of things. This is a natural human tendency.

So I hope you are not accusing me of trolling. I didnt talk about H?; i talked generally.  Are you trolling me?

There is at least one city already being "removed" because of this.  It is being done consensually (albeit not by preference).  This is not a purely theoretical question.

Since it doesn't involve me directly, I am not expressing an opinion other than to say I think land claims that exclude all other comers are in general probably ill advised.

Accepting that the idea of claiming land "exclusively" is ill advised leads me to the idea that "claiming" land in Elgea doesn't necessarily require all others to go or be removed. The power of the territory is generally determined as the power in any other way, that is the military strength, the diplo strength and the network of alliances (which goes beyond the previously mentioned ways). Sure "I want that" is a strong motivator but the powerful have learned patience. If there's anything Illy teaches us it's patience.

A very insightful man wrote "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." There's a lesson in there somewhere.

Consensually (did you just invent a word? xD) is the key to that sentence. Said person had the choice to (attempt to) defend. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, I'm simply pointing out that if the person in question wanted to stay then they could have asked for assistance. This is an alliance with 19 players, only 4 of which are a formidable size. It requires ~6 vets to decide they disagree, team up and prevent it. 

No-one seems to feel that strongly about it, one player is being inconvenienced that we know of.. if someone of a decent size in a larger alliance really wanted to move there, I doubt StA could stop them. If someone decided to move there purely on principle, good for them.. if no-one wants to do that then stop moaning, lol. 

Brids17 wrote: If Farra Isle was a square (which it's not) it would be 14,399 squares. That kind of pales in comparison to the roughly 70,000 squares that surround all H? cities. Just saying.

Passive agressive much?  You delight in those little H? jabs, no?

Distort much?  No one in H? made a claim, just a request to open communication.

Can't we just   it out? 

 

This thread is not about H?  Let it go.

This has nothing to do with H? nor does it have to do with some hidden anger you think I have for them. It could have been any other alliance and I would have said the same thing. 

Yes, I misunderstood the H? situation in that it wasn't a claim, though I still think it has it's similarities. I don't agree with either of them tbh, I was just pointing out that I felt it was hypocritical, based on what I thought, for Llyorn do have said that. I made a mistake, no big deal. 

@Silverlake, please review initial statement and tell me how it was insulting.  If anything I was complimenting them.  I just wish you wouldn't take everything as a jab!  Especially when the only ones my statements might actually be offensive to is sTa.  You don't have to make every mention of H? into some huge ordeal... Especially when it's as harmless as the reference I made above.

I'm gonna have to call BS here.  No army without a siege component should take over five days to hit the coast from anywhere on Farra.  The slowest unit in the game is still going to make it in a day or maybe two, max.  And you're still easily one of the most concentrated alliances in the game.  Being "stretched"  over a hundred squares is really nothing at all.  And none of this explains why you feel entitled two the whole island in the first place.

When you say 'these people', do you mean StA or the people talking in this thread?

On a more specific level, a lot of people don't like the idea of an alliance claiming large areas it has no functional control over and trying to restrict settlement there.  The precedent is bad, because if StA can claim a region, there isn't a lot stopping a larger alliances claiming other, more substantial bits of the map.   

btw, that my own opinion, and heck, i can go and shout my opinion whenever i wish to.. 

what a load of bull. there are alliance claimed regions that are about the size of ferra island and no one complains. 

Name three.

i could go on..

 

Land claims made in forums are only as effective as your ability to enforce them.  I cam claim Keppen as entirely belonging to Jane Darkmagic, but the minute an alliance or one of the 1000 people militarily stronger than me decide to move to Keppen, the claim means nothing unless I can successfully back up my mouth and threats.

 

I can say if you move to Keppen, I will see this as ample reason to attack you because I have put a flag there.. ("Have you got a flag?  No flag, no country!)  If in the process of me attacking you, your allies chase me down and raze all my cities to the ground it will be completely justified as well and my land claim will have been proven a very bad idea.

 

However, if I have 100 people of similiar size in a radius and make the suggestion that settling near us is a bad idea, more people might listen, and the self-imposed claim might hold for a much more significant amount of time, but it still might escalate into World World 8 depending on the diplomacy and people involved.

 

Not going to make the mistake of trying to use in-game examples this time, so hope you can see what I'm saying!

H?'s rule of 10 squares states that 10 is a guideline, and that closer than 10 squares is permitted if requested.  This is perfectly reasonable, as H? has both the military backing and leniency to make this work.  No one, as far as I know, has been forcibly removed by H? after following the guidelines put forward.

StA has laid claim to farra isle, which is a different kettle of carp entirely.  "No cities will be permitted to be settled" essentially means that StA feels that they have ownership of farra, and can defend their claim if necessary.  If StA allows other people to settle on their land a reasonable distance away, then there should be no issue.  

However, what bugs me is that in StA *hasn't* actually claimed all of farra isle.  Sure, they have many cities there, but even by saying that each of their cities has 20 theoretical sov squares around it means that there are substantial gaps in their claim.  

If I were StA, I wouldn't have made this issue public.  The placement of cities in a grid across farra isle would have guaranteed that their claim would have been little contested, as the land there isn't particularly desired, and the denizens of the forums wouldn't have picked their claim to pieces.  That being said, StA will have to decide wether to support their claim and potentially war with others, or to back down, lay low, and spread like hell across farra isle before lawn can make is 11 settlers.  

I don't see why you don't just explain the situation here, rather than beating around the bush about it. It'd make it a lot easier than contacting him and trying to find out about it. 

OK, TCol, BSH and FreE could be considered to have a land claim, and I suppose you could call the hubs of Curse and DLords 'Land claims', but as I said in another thread it's how you support the claim that's important, plus firepower needed to back up the claim is, whatever anyone says, important.

You guys should calm down. It's only a game 

I fear you could have more chance of achieving your goal without this post ....

There is still lot of space to expand your alliance on the island, if you really want, and there was no real reason to declare the claim, and a lot of ways to keep the space for you without attrition. I doubt lot of players would hurry settling in the island before your claim, and you should know a few ways to secure the better spots for yourself. Instead a public statement draws attention.

Also, I think you miss some value...

A neighbor can be a value. A strong neighbor can be a strong value. While having hubs and keeping cities all nearby is important for alliances, having some good neighbor can add value too. 

Most of us would not like people settling very near our cities, but could be happy to have a good neighbor wanting to collaborate.

Just my 2 cents, without malice.

What sort of a bounder would keep making nasty remarks about a fella's name?

Bow

One more time, it was a request to open up communications, not a warning, infer much?  I'm starting to get a complex that your alliance does like mine   wanna hug it out?

Why is it the moment someone says anything about H? you automatically call them out as not liking them? I think you're seeing what you want to see.

Birds, LOL, "Someone," try three people from the same alliance, that's a collective behavior, just own it and move on.  

I know that neither Angrim nor I meant anything critical of H?'s policy/request/recommendation, we were just trying to use it as a point of comparison in an academic-type(trying to think of a better word) discussion...  Not as a direct comparison, but of an alliance making a request or recommendation of any type.  Your's I think is very reasonable.  STa's not at all reasonable.   It's hard to find the correct language that won't offend anyone... But I know Angrim well in-game and he's not the type to get all hot and bothered about silly issues.  I have more of a tendency but will always admit when I mean to be offensive, and not saying I've never said anything critical of H?(I did during the tourney for sure), but this is not one of those times!  I've been similarly critical of people in my own alliance though(Ask Rill).  I'm just a premature old crank that likes a good debate.

Llyorn Of Jaensch wrote: It was meant in jest. I assumed that was rather obvious with all the past 'hug it out etc'.