The idea here is to flatten the curve and have everything back to normal at 30 cities.

The population requirement is more linear and there are no big jumps in the beginning.

Rill wrote: It's true that there are a few players with vastly more cities

Some stats:

There are quite a few accounts at around 10 cities or more.

Rill wrote: but it takes considerable time and effort (or prestige) to get to 9 cities.

And it would still be a lot of time and effort to get to 9 cities. But instead of climbing a mountain it would be a hill. Current players at that population would still be rewarded for their work by being able to get more cities.

Rill wrote: This is another solution in search of a problem.

So having an artificial (difficulty) wall relatively early on is not a problem? A wall that discourages players to build more?

Difficulty should not be front-loaded but instead be at the end. Which currently is the case - with the exception of the population requirement for 9 and 10 cities.

demonstrates the following point:

Rill wrote: This is another solution in search of a problem.

Some people managed to overcome the problem. Yes.

That does not mean that the problem does not exist or that the current situation is good for the game.

I know that the 9 and 10 city population requirement discourages quite a few players. Maybe not you. But that does not mean again that the problem does not exist.

Getting the 10th city also comes with a valuable discovery. We should have to work hard to get it and not have it just handed to us. It also comes with a sense of accomplishment, and I am so looking forward to feeling like I accomplished something when I get to 10. It feels good because it is challenging and we had to work for it. 

Moving cities should also be hard. Exodus and/or teleporting needs to be a difficult choice with consequences. This a game of hard choices and paying for those choices. And it's something that makes Illy an awesome game. I don't want that to change. 

What you see as a problem, I see as an opportunity to play the game. 

i agree with Thirion about lowering the 10 but also with Freyja that it must still br competitive and have a taste of succes when done.

also i do not think Thirion grafick represent Good the dificalty of the 10 city ...its much harder compered to others from pop prespective ...cause the difocalty at that lvl is mostly from new towns build up and not the old ones .... i have make diferent ecxel represent the dificatly by my point of view :

	Population
TownS	Total	Avg	Additional	1) NEW (LAST ) TOWN POP	2) EXTRA POP NEED FROM OLDER TOWNS
2	450	450	450	450	------
3	2000	1000	1550	1000	550
4	5000	1667	3000	1667	666,5
5	10000	2500	5000	2500	833,3333333
6	20000	4000	10000	4000	1500
7	40000	6667	20000	6667	2666,6
8	75000	10715	35000	10715	4047,5
9	130000	16250	55000	16250	5535,714286
10	233550	25950	103550	25950	9700
11	263550	26355	30000	26355	405
12	294550	26778	31000	26778	422,2
13	326550	27213	32000	27213	435,1818182
14	359550	27658	33000	27658	445,1666667
15	393550	28111	34000	28111	453
16	428550	28570	35000	28570	459,2857143
17	464550	29035	36000	29035	464,3333333
18	501550	29503	37000	29503	468,5625
19	539550	29975	38000	29975	472,0588235
20	578550	30450	39000	30450	475
21	618550	30928	40000	30928	477,4736842
22	659550	31408	41000	31408	479,6
23	701550	31889	42000	31889	481,4761905
24	744550	32372	43000	32372	483,0909091
25	788550	32857	44000	32857	484,4782609
26	833550	33342	45000	33342	485,75
27	879550	33829	46000	33829	486,84
28	926550	34317	47000	34317	487,8076923
29	974550	34806	48000	34806	488,6666667
30	1023550	35295	49000	35295	489,4642857
31	1073550	35785	50000	35785	490,1724138
32	1124550	36276	51000	36276	490,8
33	1176550	36767	52000	36767	491,3870968
34	1229550	37259	53000	37259	491,90625
35	1283550	37751	54000	37751	492,3939394
36	1338550	38244	55000	38244	492,8235294
37	1394550	38738	56000	38738	493,2
38	1451550	39231	57000	39231	493,5833333
39	1509550	39725	58000	39725	493,9189189
40	1568550	40219	59000	40219	494,2368421
41	1628550	40713	60000	40713	494,5384615
42	1689550	41208	61000	41208	494,8
43	1747550	41608	58000	41608	399,804878
44	1803550	41943	56000	41943	334,6904762
45	1857550	42217	54000	42217	274,0232558
46	1909550	42434	52000	42434	217,4090909
47	1959550	42599	50000	42599	164,4666667
48	2012550	42820	53000	42820	221,3043478
49	2068550	43094	56000	43094	274,5957447
50	2127550	43419	59000	43419	324,6041667
51	2189550	43791	62000	43791	371,6122449
52	2254550	44206	65000	44206	415,88
53	2322550	44664	68000	44664	457,5686275
54	2393550	45161	71000	45161	496,9038462
55	2467550	45695	74000	45695	534,0566038
56	2542550	46264	75000	46264	532,1481481
57	2618550	46760	76000	46760	531,6363636
58	2695550	47290	77000	47290	530,5357143
59	2773550	47820	78000	47820	529,4736842
60	2849000	48288	75450	48288	468,3103448
61	3000000	50000	151000	50000	1711,864407

< ="text/">td {border: 1px solid #cccccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}

so my proposal is lower the 10 dificalty ...but put more midle lower dificalties all the way of the city builds ...

Freyja. wrote: I disagree completely. It should be hard to get more cities and it should not be made easier. Making things easier would ruin the challenge and fun of building cities and gaining new cities. I don't want an easy game or a click fest. I want challenges and opportunities to strategize.

My suggestion would not change that. The part after 30 cities is unchanged and at 20+ cities there is little to no difference. It flattens the lower parts - that are currently extremely hard. So easier at around 10 cities and a bit harder after it to make up for it.

Freyja. wrote: Getting the 10th city also comes with a valuable discovery. We should have to work hard to get it and not have it just handed to us. It also comes with a sense of accomplishment, and I am so looking forward to feeling like I accomplished something when I get to 10. It feels good because it is challenging and we had to work for it.

10 cities is still hard and challenging. But why does 10 have to be extremely hard when everything after that is hard anyway?

Freyja. wrote: Moving cities should also be hard. Exodus and/or teleporting needs to be a difficult choice with consequences. This a game of hard choices and paying for those choices. And it's something that makes Illy an awesome game. I don't want that to change.

It is not going to change with my suggestions. My other suggestion is a change that you can do once per account and helps mostly newer players. On the contrary - the decision wether to use Tenaril early or not is going to be even harder.

Freyja. wrote: What you see as a problem, I see as an opportunity to play the game.

My suggestions are not a huge change to the game. They are small tweaks that would in my opinion improve the retention end enjoyable for newer and smaller players in Illyriad.

Wise words, indeed.

Why? Because the longer it takes for new players to get even a 1/4 or 1/3 of a vet player, the longer those vet players can exert pressure and force newer players to do what they want. That creates stale gameplay, as it becomes more about old blood having the most control and power. Make it quicker for new players to catch up, or band together enough new players that they have a shot at challenging established vets.

This will make things more interesting, and get new players engaged in the game faster. Gone are the days where people want to spend years building up to 6 - 9 cities meant you could exert some power. Now, you have to have 20 cities to amongst a decent amount of players to be considered a moderate player.

Help get new players into all elements of the game faster - gathering, crafting, hunting, tournaments and pvp. This will increase player retention, help increase the playerbase and help keep the server from getting stale.