Pre-Faction AI Launch Guide
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Factions & Lore
Forum Description: For all discussions related to Factions & Lore
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=10940
Printed Date: 16 Apr 2022 at 16:35 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Pre-Faction AI Launch Guide
Posted By: GM Jejune
Subject: Pre-Faction AI Launch Guide
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 18:13
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Hello, Illyrians! As the development team moves forward into the coding and testing of a new "Faction AI" ranking and action system for the game, we thought it would be helpful to give the community a few quick links and tips for preparing for the new features. Many players are unfamiliar with the player-created Faction Play gaming system that has grown over the past few years, while still others haven't done much research or exploring into the NPC Factions built into the game itself. We hope that this post will give everyone a few starting points for learning more about Factions as we work towards getting the new features launched. NPC Faction ListLinks to every Faction in the game are available on the https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Faction" rel="nofollow - , which is denoted with the red fist sub-icon underneath the larger Alliance icon in the user interface. From here, you can jump to any of the Factions’ profile pages, as well as all of the Faction cities/trade hubs.
Faction Profile Features
If you’ve never taken time to read up on the Factions, now is the time to do your homework. Many of the stories and histories of each Faction directly influence two critically important aspects of their profile: the Default Racial Standing (DRS) and Inter-Faction Standings (IFS).
Default Racial Standings

The DRS shows the baseline ranking for players based on their race. Essentally, this is where players’ rankings start with the Factions, before any of their behaviors are factored in. Please note that we recently overhauled all of the DRS rankings to better reflect the profiles of the Factions. It is worth reviewing all of the Factions nearest you to see if your base standing with them has changed.
Inter-Faction Standings
The IFS indicates the rankings that Factions have with one another. Understanding the relationships between Factions is going to be critically important, since actions with or against one Faction will have reciprocal ranking effects with other Factions.

We’ve also overhauled the IFS rankings for all Factions, and will be expanding them considerably – there will be nearly 200 new relationships! These additional IFS rankings have not gone live yet, but will in the near future.
Ranking Graph
Once Faction AI goes live, you’ll begin to see movement on the standings graphs at the top of each profile. Currently, your player and alliance rankings are mostly stationary – your ranking is largely based on your race and the Faction’s DRS, and your Alliance’s ranking is basically an average of your roster’s DRS rankings. After the launch of Faction AI, the ranking factors for players and alliances will be much more complex.

Also, many of the taxonomies associated with NPC Factions, such as the ones on the graph above (Neutral, Friendly, Hostile, etc.) will be updated as part of the new Faction launch. This is particularly true with the “Standing Meanings” at the bottom of each Faction profile, which we are more recently referring to as the “Action Scale:”

These are the actions that Factions may take on your behalf or against you based on your ranking. Look for these actions to substantially change and increase with the launch, offering all kinds of new benefits (and threats) to players and alliances.
Faction “Action Radii”Something you won’t see on current NPC Faction profiles yet are their “Action Radii.” However, these new radii are coming to the game with the Faction AI launch, and will play a key role in how players and alliances interact with Factions. Each Faction will have custom-sized radii around their hubs, based on their Faction characteristics. This means that the Fey-based Factions may have relatively small action radii, whereas the Council of Illyria and various Kingdoms in Elgea and the Broken Lands may have wide-ranging ones. Action radii between Factions will also overlap, meaning that players will have cities that exist in these overlaps and be exposed to their influence.
At the outset of Faction AI, the average size of the radii will be relatively large, since it is our intention to ensure that there aren’t many “Faction dead zones” on the map. It is more likely that the average action radius will be closer to 200 squares than, say, 20 squares – imagine a circle that fits into a block of four larger map blocks: 
(Not an actual action radius)
Just as geographical and political boundaries change over time in the real world, these radii are subject to small changes along the way and may shrink or expand according to changes in the lore and political landscape of the Factions, events/tournaments, and other factors. This means that if you are on the periphery of an action radius (either barely in one or barely out of it), you could see shifts.
The action radii will be published on every Faction profile page so that players will be able to visualize them and act accordingly. And if/when they change, those changes will also be updated accordingly.
Early Faction Questions & StrategiesSome players are already wondering if they will need to move cities because of the launch of Faction AI. The answer to that will vary from player to player. If a player is within reach of a Faction that is hostile to them, they can either exodus out of the Faction’s action radius, or work toward improving relations with the Faction just enough so that they won’t be a target of any hostilities.
Conversely, players and alliances might identify Factions that they want to be close to based on the unique benefits that come with a high ranking, and will aggressively seek to settle within their action radius. Not all Factions are created equal, and some will have gifts, items, and assistive military units that will be extremely desireable for players and alliances alike, making some real estate in Illyria extremely valuable!
Overall, NPC Factions are going to be highly active and will factor into virtually every aspect of gameplay. Since the DRS rankings for non-monstrous Factions rarely exceed -35, no player will begin with a Faction ranking that puts them in jeopardy of being attacked by them. However, players and alliances will need to be mindful of their relationships with neighboring Factions. If you’re not looking for to have major conflict with them, then you will need to ensure that you keep your rankings in a safe range. Fortunately, there will be lots of fun and interesting ways to do this that will very much align with the things that players already do in the game – trading, crafting, hunting, city building/positioning, etc. Illyriad Slack Server for Faction Play The long-used, player-managed Slack Server for Faction Play is now an official platform for Illyriad, and will serve as a complementary feature to the game’s upcoming Faction-related features. Having an account on the Illy Slack Server for Faction Play is not a requirement to play with and enjoy Faction AI. It is simply a new and alternative platform for global chat and the forums for the player base to use for all things related to Factions, whether that be role playing, sharing insights into the system, or just social chatting.
You can join and enter the Slack server https://join.slack.com/t/illyriadfactionplay/shared_invite/zt-g4ivobud-kNm_eUncqlQxANVeUrQ~FA" rel="nofollow - .
Slack will run in your browser of choice, but there are fantastic desktop and mobile apps that make it very easy to interact with on the go.
Are you a Discord user? Other social media user? Don’t worry: we’ll be exploring additional social media platforms in the future. Faction Content in Search BarIn case you didn’t know, you can search for Faction profile pages, hub locations, special places on the map, and the link to the Slack server in the game’s search bar:

This will give you quick access to key links for everything related to in-game Faction features.
“Faction Play” Versus “Faction AI”With the new excitement surrounding upcoming in-game “Faction AI” features, many are wondering how bringing the NPC Factions to life will relate to “Faction Play.” It’s important to remember that Faction Play was not created by Illyriad Games Ltd. and is not an official set of rules for the game. Faction Play is a set of rules and an algorithmic ranking system that was created by Illyriad players to mimic a Faction AI system. Faction Play is a voluntary, opt-in gaming style for Illyriad, and players will not be required to opt into Faction Play in order to enjoy and interact with Faction AI and the game’s own features.
You also won’t need to change alliances or join an alliance to enjoy the new Faction AI features. (However, in the future, alliances will have additional, cool Faction-related features that you might not want to miss out on.)
It is up to Faction Play stakeholders to decide if and how the Faction Play rules can interface with Faction AI. The game developers do not officially endorse or control Faction Play content (I had a major role in Faction Play's development but am no longer managing it). That being said, we certainly celebrate whenever Illy players look to enhance the game with their own content, and we are comfortable with intertwining the term “Faction Play” with our own development efforts, since we feel that it is a term that can safely encompass the entire Faction experience in Illyriad.
Players are welcome to use the Illyriad https://forum.illyriad.co.uk/factions-lore_forum53.html" rel="nofollow - and Slack server as platforms for their own Faction-related, player-led initiatives.
Faction AI RoadmapAs stated previously, we have an exciting roadmap planned out for rolling out new in-game Faction features. While we’re not able to post specific dates for when the features will go live, we can give you a preview into what to expect. At the time of this posting, this is the current order of what we’ll be working on and releasing:
Faction AI for Players: This will be the “1.0” system for Faction AI that will allow players to interact with the Factions and affect their rankings. Doing so will dictate the types of actions that Factions will take with or against players. System design and most of the content is already completed, and coding and testing is underway. Faction AI for Alliances: This iteration will introduce additional ranking factors and ranking actions for how NPC Factions interact with Alliances. The system will look at Alliance members’ own player rankings, but also additional, Alliance-specific factors. A good portion of the design is done for this, and additional design is in process. Second-generation Features: Once we have both the player and alliance features running, we’ll be doubling back to both to add even more sophisticated ranking factors and new actions and behaviors for the Factions.
Rather than spending eons to design, code and test everything we have planned, we thought it best to release Faction AI in stages and get the entire gaming community into the fun and action as soon as possible. Stay tuned – we’ll be sure to keep you posted along the way!
Final note: All of the details discussed in this post related to Faction AI features are subject to change in the future. While we are giving you insights into what we are planning for the system, coding and testing may bear out new findings that will alter some of these design plans. We will be sure to communicate any of these changes to the player community as needed.
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Replies:
Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 19:02
very interesting stuff, a couple questions, will there be a map feature to see those faction circles of influence? also will factions be giving out stuff like new weapons or spells?
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Posted By: GM Jejune
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 19:08
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It is likely that in the latter phases of Faction AI, you'll begin to see changes and improvements to the user interface, map, etc. As for gifting from the Factions, yes, we're planning on gifts as one of the benefits of having and maintaining very positive rankings with them. The early gifting is likely to be mostly items (with varying degrees of value and rarity depending on the Faction), and latter gifts could be in the form of new discoveries, spells, and other game buffs.
If you delve into the descriptions of the crafted weapons, you'll find that some of them are directly associated with particular Factions. Those could well be the "gifts" that those Factions provide to players who are held in particularly high esteem.
------------- https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/414328" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Tucic
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 19:15
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Would be nice if there is some form of filter for searching the faction page for races/regions. But i am sure you thought of this already and the whole faction page will be getting an overhaul. I am excited to see when the changes implemented.
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Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 19:49
can you let us know when the changes to lore/faction standings start so we can read up on the changes as they occur? or at least post the updated lore to the lore area in the forums for us to read and make informed choices for where to move or which factions to become friendly with?
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Posted By: Ammianus
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 19:55
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Do I understand correctly, that Illyriad is moving away from a real great sandbox game into a game where factors generated by the game system itself will have an increasing impact on the ability of players to act freely? What I mean by this is can I expect Players will get support or suffer attacks soon in the future which are mostly beyond there control?
------------- Qui secundos optat eventus, dimicet arte, non causa. [Vegetius]
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Posted By: GM Jejune
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 20:03
Ammianus wrote:
can I expect Players will get support or suffer attacks soon in the future which are mostly beyond there control? |
No, Ammianus -- support and/or hostilities caused by NPC Factions will not be "mostly beyond" players' control. Players will have a wide range of actions they can take to manipulate their rankings with the Factions, thus mitigating the relationships they have with the Factions. Players will have a lot of control.
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Posted By: Ammianus
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 20:19
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Jejune, this really is what I consider out of my control. I will have to divert my attention on things I am not really interested in, and which is not a negotiable player interaction. It is forced onto me by the game mechanics.
Don't get me wrong, maybe that is a wonderful effort in the interest of a majority of players, but up to know I just see it as an interference to PvP play.
Also I think it is making the game more difficult for players whose account is more widely spread. They will have to adjust to more factions, which maybe even opposed to each other.
------------- Qui secundos optat eventus, dimicet arte, non causa. [Vegetius]
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Posted By: Thirion
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 20:40
Ammianus wrote:
Do I understand correctly, that Illyriad is moving away from a real great sandbox game into a game where factors generated by the game system itself will have an increasing impact on the ability of players to act freely? |
In my opinion (based mostly on my experience with the current Faction Play) it is going to be the opposite - the sandbox game is extended with additional options and layers.
To my current understanding you can on the one hand not engage much with the new Faction AI (just check that they are not hostile - which all of the non-monstrous are - and keep them that way if necessary). On the other hand if you enjoy it you can engage with them in a lot of different ways that are already common in Illyriad (trade, attacks, quests, ...) trying to get some benefits.
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Posted By: Gilsus
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2022 at 23:56
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The problem I see here is that unfavorable ratings "forces" players to take action and get a better rating to avoid possible hostile action or bigger taxes in hubs.
If faction rating is unavoidable, I hope it's easy to get neutral rating. Like using Taverns for example. Taverns are fairly useless building, but if building this up can give those small quest again and it can show per faction quest, that might be easier for players to get neutral standing with faction hubs.
I also see factions have a relative relation to other factions, I think grouping them would be good too. I.e. if I do Dwarf faction quest, I get additional faction rank across dwarf hubs, etc., doing Faction specific quest will double faction rank points for that faction.
And since Faction is hub related, a Faction Buy/Sell Order function would be handy. If I post a buy order in a Human faction hub in Elgea, a player can fulfill that buy/sell order in another Human faction hub in Broken lands. Then the faction will make the delivery hub to hub, not through the player vans. This will utilize very remote hubs.
Edit: Re-reading my post felt like a wish list. Excuse my senseless rumbling, was just trying to help.
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Posted By: Tensmoor
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 00:43
Tucic wrote:
Would be nice if there is some form of filter for searching the faction page for races/regions. But i am sure you thought of this already and the whole faction page will be getting an overhaul. I am excited to see when the changes implemented. |
If not then I can fairly quickly put something together to do that and add it into DurcTools. Depending on how frequently the 'radius of operations' will be updating it should be fairly easy to update the https://www.factionaction.dewt.me.uk/html/index2.html" rel="nofollow - Faction Action page I used to have to have it so you can enter a search by faction, region, or standing with player races. If either of those things are something the players feel is needed then let me know.
This is sounding really great JJ and you have obviously all put a heck of a lot of time and effort into this already.
Tens
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Posted By: Tucic
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2022 at 03:19
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So I was going through and looking at the medal section and noticed not all of the faction emblems are available to use on the medals. I was wondering if that was going to changed with the update or if those factions will award their own NPC medal after prerequisites or will this stay the same?
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Posted By: GM Jejune
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2022 at 14:22
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Thanks, Tucic. Honestly, we haven't thought much about medals, but it's a great idea. We probably wouldn't have medals auto-awarded by the Factions for, say, achieving a certain ranking, since the rankings will be fluid. For example, if there was a medal for reaching +90 with a faction, a player might stray in and out of +90 fequently, based on their day-to-day interactions with that faction and their enemies. Perhaps there could be medals in the future for completing faction quests, or for maining an average ranking of X for Y amount of days. Something like that.
Again, great idea!
------------- https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/414328" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Sif
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2022 at 09:21
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Congratulations
for your effort until now and for your new position for now on ,
I am not
really familiar with the English nor with the internet platforms nor with the faction play until now so apologise if I make a mistake for any these
reasons.
For the game
has two ways the that sometime are separate and sometimes alongside
1) the lonely
way (single play ) and
2) the interaction
with each other way ( multiplayer )
The factions
I believe must affect both ways by motivation to interact with them for personal gain .
I will post
some ideas about the 2 (multiplayer )
cause is the one I care most
Motivation : the
player with the bigger rank* with the
faction the present time (refresh every second ) should allow entrance to a
panel similar to the town/alliance panel with some options about :
a) tax rate in the radios ,
b) bonus in the radios cities ,
c)change
the recouirement rank to be able to trade with the hub and
d) make use
of the armies of the faction ( but only to be used for in the raking area
meaning you cannot attack a player that has friendly ranking with the faction )
e) things
like that………………..
*alternatively
there could be some cities (3 for each faction) that are unrassable ( only capturable ) and
the owner of all the cities control the faction.
About ranking
:
6 raking factors
1) Rank between factions ( uncahnchable
)
2) Race factor ( uncahnchable )
3) Aggressions toward the current faction
(-10…..-50 depending each day by 1)
4) Successful quest made by the faction
( periodically and depending on your rank and the rank of the current faction
with hostile or not friendly faction give quest such as attack to faction army
, raze cities of high ranking of the opposite faction players , kill harvester …….
(+10…..+50 depending each day by 1)
5) Distance from the hub , the closer your towns are are to the hub the
biggest the impact of your rank % (+ % /distance for each town for all your positive
ranks )
6) players ranking each others secretly
,
each player can rank each other player by +/- 1 each day starting from 0 by default .
so ex. player A rank player B +50 and player B rank A +10 and both are
in the radius of the faction so player A has a +50 with the faction and player B
+10 toward the faction
but if player A has rank player B with +90 and he attacks him he suffer
a -90 rank with the faction ( depending each day by 1 )
this rank will be secret but can be reveal by spying the capital.
Factions opt in and out
1) factions that at the radious players
are opt in by deafalt
2) factions that at the radious if the
most players are opt in they wake
3) factions that are NOT opt in by any
way
The hole
point for me is getting control of the factions by players but at a norm set by
the DEVS
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Posted By: GM Jejune
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2022 at 14:15
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Sif, thank you for your excellent post! You are correct that Faction AI will eventually include actions that factions may take for or against both players and alliances. The system launch will focus on players' rankings with the NPC factions first, and the next iteration will expand rankings and actions to include alliances as well. Players will not be required to be in an alliance to enjoy the features of Faction AI, but alliances will have access to some features that players will not have access to.
In terms of faction action and behaviors, I would say that a lot of your ideas more or less align with what we've designed thus far. Our plan is to eventually have a wide range of potential actions and behaviors that factions may engage in with players and alliances, ranging from trade and city building to diplomacy and combat.
As far as ranking factors go, we've decided to keep those secret, as it will be encumbant upon the player base to experiment with the factions and determine which actions make rankings go up and down. We feel like this is going to be a big part of the fun, since we know that Illyriad players are very intellectually curious and will keep testing and experimentating until they learn the system (even better than us!) Over time, the ranking algorithm will get increasingly sophisticated and granular so that there will be an ongoing challenge to remain on the vanguard of Faction AI.
------------- https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/414328" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Tensmoor
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2022 at 15:45
Just as well I've stopped playing - trying to figure this all out would probably fry that last braincell  
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Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2022 at 22:13
how will we work with the factions? will it be something like a drop down menu or a page with a list of options?
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Posted By: GM Jejune
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2022 at 00:09
Players will interact with factions just as they do with other players, cities, encampments, hubs, NC units, etc. All of the actions we take in-game on a regular basis will have an impact on a player's ranking with a particular faction where they are directed at that faction. There shouldn't be any new or additional functionality needed.
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Posted By: BrianN
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 00:09
I think I have to do the same disclaimer I did in the other thread: My communication is blunt, what I say is what I say and people often presume I say things that I do not. Im not saying that Jejune sucks or that this is a bad idea or that we shouldn't do these things. Im not saying anything but what I am saying. Please take them at face value and what they are for, not for what you think they are for. I think that this could be a great thing for Illy, a game ive spent hundreds of hours on. People often (so since its often, yes, I do deserve some of the blame for not making it clearer) assume that I am being combative, but I just think in different ways and am attuned to Unintended Consequences. It was my job for many years to see these things, its my mental makeup, and is often responsible for my blunt nature  So, since my other concerns have not been addressed for 3 weeks, Ive been assured that if I use short concise questions they will be addressed.So here you go...ill take them in order brought up. "If you’ve never taken time to read up on the Factions, now is the time to do your homework." and "It is worth reviewing all of the Factions nearest you to see if your base standing with them has changed." This is also addressed by Tensmoor "Just as well I've stopped playing - trying to figure this all out would probably fry that last braincell "...what do you say to those who have spent a lot of time setting up their empires who are now at risk of having a great deal of their work wiped out by a change that will not be beta tested by a range of the playerbase? This project does not have the luxury of having a track record of the people developing it being successful in anything (and the early reviews on community engagement are bad). "The IFS indicates the rankings that Factions have with one another. Understanding the relationships between Factions is going to be critically important, since actions with or against one Faction will have reciprocal ranking effects with other Factions. " What do you mean by actions? Does this include having goods stored in their hub? Or moving goods into/out of their hub? Or simply defending yourself against the factions' attacks? "These are the actions that Factions may take on your behalf or against you based on your ranking. Look for these actions to substantially change and increase with the launch, offering all kinds of new benefits (and threats) to players and alliances. " To what extent? Will there now be massive roaming bands of NPCs that will destroy other alliances that don't properly suck up to the NPCs? Will alliance X's jumpstart on faction play cause them to have a tactical advantage (the answer to this is already yes, but by how much)? "Each Faction will have custom-sized radii around their hubs, based on their Faction characteristics. " Who will be determining these radii? People with already set loyalties to and against certain people/alliances? "Some players are already wondering if they will need to move cities because of the launch of Faction AI. The answer to that will vary from player to player." You do not see a problem where people can be forced to move cities for arbitrary reasons? "If a player is within reach of a Faction that is hostile to them, they can either exodus out of the Faction’s action radius, or work toward improving relations with the Faction just enough so that they won’t be a target of any hostilities. " And the people who are away from the game long enough that their cities are decimated before they come back? What is your response to them? So do you think that if the things that happen with NPCs in Calumnex would happen everywhere, would more people play the game or more get frustrated and quit? "Overall, NPC Factions are going to be highly active and will factor into virtually every aspect of gameplay. " So shouldn't people from virtually every aspect of gameplay be able to advise on its impacts? "Having an account on the Illy Slack Server for Faction Play is not a requirement to play with and enjoy Faction AI." However, so far, my issues that I have brought up in the game and these forums have been ignored, and im not able to use Slack so what is my option? Doing a petition ingame is obviously useless as I have multiple ones open for over a year and nothing done about them. "Rather than spending eons to design, code and test everything we have planned, we thought it best to release Faction AI in stages and get the entire gaming community into the fun and action as soon as possible." This makes SOME sense, but there should be SOME testing done before some small oversight causes irrereperable harm. Ammi said:"Don't get me wrong, maybe that is a wonderful effort in the interest of a majority of players, but up to know I just see it as an interference to PvP play. Also I think it is making the game more difficult for players whose account is more widely spread. They will have to adjust to more factions, which maybe even opposed to each other." As someone who has one PVP account and one hunting account greatly spread out, this is where a lot of these issues I see come from. Differing viewpoints are important Gilsus also brought up some points that I am interested in, and I see that neither of their concerns have been addressed. Overall, I have problems with not knowing what is going into this when there is no track record for the person implementing them. That there isn't a sufficient number/mindset to think of all the problems that one new programmer couldn't see or think of (again, im not disparaging Jejune...no one person can see all the ramifications).
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Posted By: GM Jejune
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 01:19
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Many thanks for your questions, Brian! I appreciate your passion for the game and your candor. I'll address them below in turn:
BrianN wrote:
...what do you say to those who have spent a lot of time setting up their empires who are now at risk of having a great deal of their work wiped out by a change that will not be beta tested by a range of the playerbase? This project does not have the luxury of having a track record of the people developing it being successful in anything (and the early reviews on community engagement are bad). |
First off, I will say that players don't risk "having a great deal of their work wiped out" by Faction AI. The various PvE features in the game have to this point never posed any kind of existential threat to players, and Faction AI will be no exception to that rule. There will be possible negative actions that NPC factions may take against players, but the threshold for these actions will be very low on the negative side of the action scale, meaning that players will need to behave negatively with an NPC faction in a pro-active, consistent manner to provoke such actions. The vast majority of players will sit within a range of the ranking system and action scale that won't provoke active aggressive action against them. In other words, it isn't as if the Faction AI switch will be turned on and everyone will be getting strafed by a half-dozen factions at once, all the time.
Second, the system is going to be rigorously tested by a team of testers who are not part of the design or coding team and who are intimately familiar with the game. Illyriad has a strong track record of launching game expansions since 2010 that have been incredibly stable and widely embraced by the gaming community here. Faction AI will not be released until or unless our team is 100% confident that the system is ready for prime time. And to be clear: Faction AI is not a feature that I'm solely developing. I'm just one member of a larger team of designers, coders, and testers who are working on the project to bring it to fruition. Those who are coding and building the features are true professionals in their field who have had measurable success in developing similarly sophisticated gaming systems in the past.
BrianN wrote:
"The IFS indicates the rankings that Factions have with one another. Understanding the relationships between Factions is going to be critically important, since actions with or against one Faction will have reciprocal ranking effects with other Factions. "What do you mean by actions? Does this include having goods stored in their hub? Or moving goods into/out of their hub? Or simply defending yourself against the factions' attacks? |
All of the above, and more. Actions that involve specific factions and their hubs will have incremental effects on a player's ranking with them. This is why I've characterized Faction AI as touching "every aspect of the game." It won't just involve combat; traders, crafters, harvesters, and city builders will be able to use their gaming skills to affect the rankings in a number of ways.
BrianN wrote:
"These are the actions that Factions may take on your behalf or against you based on your ranking. Look for these actions to substantially change and increase with the launch, offering all kinds of new benefits (and threats) to players and alliances. "To what extent? Will there now be massive roaming bands of NPCs that will destroy other alliances that don't properly suck up to the NPCs? |
No, I can say with confidence that there won't be "massive roaming bands of NPCs that will destroy other alliances." The "substantial changes" will occur as we roll out future expansions to Faction AI. To recap: the initial launch will be a "Player 1.0" version that will only govern players' rankings and actions with NPC factions. Later on, we'll release the alliance ranking and action system, which will have additional ranking factors and actions. After that, there will be "2.0" versions of both player and alliance ranking and action systems that will introduce even more ranking factors and behaviors.
BrianN wrote:
Will alliance X's jumpstart on faction play cause them to have a tactical advantage (the answer to this is already yes, but by how much)? |
Since the alliance portion of Faction AI will come later, it's hard to quantify that right now. I don't envision NPC factions posing any more of an existential threat to alliances than I do players, but I will say that if alliances begin thinking about how they can optimize relationships with NPC factions sooner rather than later, I think it would benefit them to some degree.
BrianN wrote:
Who will be determining these radii? People with already set loyalties to and against certain people/alliances? |
No, people with "already set loyalties to and against certain people/alliances" will not be determining these radii. They are based on several factors, including the faction's racial characteristics, the number of factions that belong to a particular race, the number of hubs that exist within those groupings, and profile characteristics as suggested by the lore.
A great deal of effort has been made to use the lore and other faction content that is already in the game to color the behaviors and characteristics of the NPC factions.
BrianN wrote:
"Some players are already wondering if they will need to move cities because of the launch of Faction AI. The answer to that will vary from player to player."You do not see a problem where people can be forced to move cities for arbitrary reasons? |
I think there will be a desire among many in the player base to move cities because they want to get within certain action radii and interact with specific factions. As noted previously, the NPC factions won't be an existential threat to cities, and I wouldn't call any in-game feature that engages players to be "arbitrary."
BrianN wrote:
"If a player is within reach of a Faction that is hostile to them, they can either exodus out of the Faction’s action radius, or work toward improving relations with the Faction just enough so that they won’t be a target of any hostilities. "And the people who are away from the game long enough that their cities are decimated before they come back? What is your response to them? So do you think that if the things that happen with NPCs in Calumnex would happen everywhere, would more people play the game or more get frustrated and quit? |
The NPC behaviors in Calumnex are not representative of the vast majority of NPC factions throughout Illyria. If you study the faction profile pages, you'll see that most of the factions have thriving cultures and a desire to interact with other communities. Most of the Default Racial Standings (DRS) of non-monstrous factions fall within a range of +30 and -30 -- ranges that are well out of any "danger zone" for being attacked. Yes, monstrous factions are aggressive -- they tend to have DRS of -80 or lower for all races. There are only 6 of those factions worldwide, or ~6% of all factions. Furthermore, monstrous factions or otherwise do not "decimate" cities. For sure, they can decimate troops. But these are dangers that already exist in the game and players are accustomed to confronting.
BrianN wrote:
"Overall, NPC Factions are going to be highly active and will factor into virtually every aspect of gameplay. "So shouldn't people from virtually every aspect of gameplay be able to advise on its impacts? |
The dev team is listening intently to the player community on Faction AI and will continue to engage in a dialogue as the features are rolled out. I've already heard from countless players who have offered a wide range of truly insightful ideas and concerns -- including you. I cannot tell you how valuable and appreciated that feedback is, as I know firsthand how passionate and creative this community is. Game developers are never able to keep up with the crowdscourced ingenuity of a gaming community, and Illyriad is no exception. I'm looking forward to keeping this dialogue open and evolving Faction AI into a truly immersive gaming feature for Illyriad. We can only do that with the creative input and participation of players like you who add so much to the experience.
BrianN wrote:
However, so far, my issues that I have brought up in the game and these forums have been ignored, and im not able to use Slack so what is my option? Doing a petition ingame is obviously useless as I have multiple ones open for over a year and nothing done about them. |
Sorry, Brian! I didn't note questions in your previous post, which is why I didn't respond. I did, however, read your post very carefully and took your concerns seriously.
BrianN wrote:
"Rather than spending eons to design, code and test everything we have planned, we thought it best to release Faction AI in stages and get the entire gaming community into the fun and action as soon as possible."This makes SOME sense, but there should be SOME testing done before some small oversight causes irrereperable harm. |
I promise you that we are taking testing very seriously. There is no way that SC will allow anything untested or sub-par to go live on the server until we know that it is going to function according to plan.
BrianN wrote:
Overall, I have problems with not knowing what is going into this when there is no track record for the person implementing them. That there isn't a sufficient number/mindset to think of all the problems that one new programmer couldn't see or think of (again, im not disparaging Jejune...no one person can see all the ramifications). |
I don't take it personally at all, Brian, and I understand that the community here only knows about the team members who have in-game GM accounts. I can only stress that there are more people involved in the development of this feature than myself, and who are proven professionals in game design and development. I promise you that I am not the only person working on this -- not by a long shot.
I hope this respponse answered some of your questions, as well as some other folks' questions as well. I'll do my level best to respond when I can in the forums and elsewhere on all things faction. Thanks!
------------- https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/414328" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: BrianN
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 01:36
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Who are these testers and developers? I mean, I don't need a full list or anything, but...I would like more than just your sayso that its being taken care of...otherwise I appreciate all the answers.
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Posted By: Tensmoor
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 05:35
BrianN wrote:
"If you’ve never taken time to read up on the Factions, now is the time to do your homework." and "It is worth reviewing all of the Factions nearest you to see if your base standing with them has changed." This is also addressed by Tensmoor "Just as well I've stopped playing - trying to figure this all out would probably fry that last braincell "...what do you say to those who have spent a lot of time setting up their empires who are now at risk of having a great deal of their work wiped out by a change that will not be beta tested by a range of the playerbase? This project does not have the luxury of having a track record of the people developing it being successful in anything (and the early reviews on community engagement are bad). |
That post was meant to be a tongue in cheek way of saying that it will take some time and a lot of effort to work out exactly what is affecting your rankings with each of the factions and by how much. When I was playing one of my cities had a great many attacks by The Tower. While I don't have the exact figures any more I would estimate that I probably lost around 100 units total spread over more than 20 attacks. Not something that worried me in any way and certainly nothing more than a very slight inconvenience. I lost many more troops and harvesters to attacks by the 'standard' NPCs.
I'm a bit confused by your point about the devs not having a track record of sucess and bad community engagement reviews and I'm responding to it only because it is in the same paragraph as the quote from me. How long has this game been going? In my opinion that is a big sucess and early reviews were just that - early reviws. My personal experience of support has been pretty outstanding apart from a couple of my very early tickets being ignored ("I'm trying to do something and it didn't work" style ones with no details of what I was trying to do and what did/did not happen). I'm not talking about since I developed DurcTools but way before that. As I said many times in GC - the more detailed info you can give in a ticket (I appreciate not everyone has the same abilities as I do to grab detailed info) the more likely you are to get a quick response.
Tens
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Posted By: Thirion
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 10:33
BrianN wrote:
Overall, I have problems with not knowing what is going into this when there is no track record for the person implementing them. |
Jejune is a long time member of this community. He implemented a complex player-run system on top of Illyriad that a lot of the players enjoy. He organized and run multiple Faction Play tournaments. You can read most of the details about that here in the forums.
So no, Jejune has a track record. And in my opinion it is really impressive - Faction Play is the biggest content addition to Illyriad in a long time. And he did that with the huge limitations player-run content has. For me Jejune is the player that had the biggest impact on Illyriad since i started playing it (and all of it was positive).
BrianN wrote:
That there isn't a sufficient number/mindset to think of all the problems that one new programmer couldn't see or think of (again, im not disparaging Jejune...no one person can see all the ramifications). |
Faction AI is based on Faction Play. The Faction Play rules and systems were created by Jejune but reviewed, used/tested and improved by a lot of players and alliances. I (and other players) gave a lot of feedback to Jejune regarding Faction Play. And i am already giving feedback/ideas regarding Faction AI to Jejune (as are you).
So no - Faction AI is not a system that is created by one person or even "just" the development-team now. It is an improved and extended version of Faction Play that quite a few Illyriad players have been discussing, using and improving for over a year now.
Sorry if the post is slightly aggressive. I think your input is important and valuable. I also think a lot of your misconceptions could have been avoided by reading up on Faction Play and trying to getting to know it and/or understand it.
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Posted By: eowan the short
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 16:36
Briann... you say you can't use slack, yet you've got an account in TCol's slack server. Should they be worried about spies?
------------- This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Posted By: BrianN
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 02:20
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Tens: My point was that Jejune had no cache built up, after I did that post Thirion had a conversation with me, which i appreciated, and I got more context.
"I also think a lot of your misconceptions could have been avoided by reading up on Faction Play and trying to getting to know it and/or understand it." I did try to get to know and understand it before that post, but noone ever bothered till you and Jejune had your convos with me.
I am however a little disappointed in the lack of a response from Jejune, but I got enough info from everyone to get by.
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Posted By: Thirion
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2022 at 09:43
BrianN wrote:
"I also think a lot of your misconceptions could have been avoided by reading up on Faction Play and trying to getting to know it and/or understand it." I did try to get to know and understand it before that post, but noone ever bothered till you and Jejune had your convos with me. |
All the information is available for public access.
Illy is a deep and complex game. While other people might get you by - it is usually a good idea to read up on the topic by yourself. All the information is out there - you just have to bother looking for and reading it.
For Faction play that is quite easy - as there is a forum where most posts (regarding rules) are from Faction play: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/politics-diplomacy_forum13.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/politics-diplomacy_forum13.html
In addition there is a forum with the Faction play events/tournaments: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/events_forum49.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/events_forum49.html
There was a Faction Play Event some time ago that was supposed to test all the ranking algorithms: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/faction-play-event-5-books-of-the-arch-magi_topic10855.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/faction-play-event-5-books-of-the-arch-magi_topic10855.html
Jejune posted hints there on where to look - that is in my opinion a good overview of most of the available content (that is probably relevant for Faction AI)
Jejune wrote:
Alliances have been given ample clues on how to increase their rankings with Factions. Here are some links to these clues and other guides on how the Alliance Ranking system Works:
Alliance racial compositions of the player roster and its https://forum.illyriad.co.uk/elves-alliance-rankings_topic10796_post107058.html#107058" rel="nofollow - . https://forum.illyriad.co.uk/elves-alliance-rankings_topic10796_post107105.html#107105" rel="nofollow - ” https://forum.illyriad.co.uk/topic10839_post107393.html#107393" rel="nofollow - https://forum.illyriad.co.uk/faction-play-faction-play-trading-launch_topic10851.html" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-j6kJzo1VhjW-kmuEqlDPa-aCe6C3Nsv5UzeTaHxHyo/edit#heading=h.u5tfut8pc1yz" rel="nofollow - .
It is up to Alliances to experiment with the algorithm to determine which actions will increase rankings with the Factions they favor. |
As an alternative you can find the links in the forums mentioned above or on Jejune's profile. All the information is easily available - you just have to bother with it.
For the event i wrote a summary for my alliance and came up with a (simple) strategy for the event. In case people are interested in that i am glad to post my alliance mail. I can also make a post summarizing Faction Play from my view/experience if people would like that.
BrianN wrote:
I am however a little disappointed in the lack of a response from Jejune, but I got enough info from everyone to get by.
| He answered your questions and he is active in GC (and reads your comments/feedback there) - what do you expect more?
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