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Time of Chaos

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1059
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:53
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Time of Chaos
Posted By: Shrapnel
Subject: Time of Chaos
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 17:45
Fine people of Illyriad, a time of chaos is soon upon us.  The gods are not happy with thier initial creation and are changing the very land we live upon.  Many of our homes will no longer be fit to live upon and we will be using our great wizards to move our cities to better locations.  Unfortunately this has the potential to scatter us even further from our friends than we already are.  Worse, we may grow angry that other take land that we sought for ourselves and great divides could potentially be made in our alliances because some other alliance placed their cities in the "wrong" spot.
 
I propose something monumental for Illyriad.  I propose that all the alliances work together as one to coordinate the moving of our cities in such a way that our individual members are not split from each other unless they choose to do so on purpose.  I ask everyone to use this forum to communicate and declare your intentions for what land you wish to claim and to settle differences when those claims come into conflict with the claims of another alliance.  Each alliance wishes and deserves a chance at the kind of security that comes from being close to ones friends.  It will be beneficial to all of us if we work together to ensure that happens.



Replies:
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 18:49
*grabs popcorn*


Posted By: bartimeus
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 19:42
Do you seriously think this is going to be possible? 
I know I'm never going to mention the good spot I find because then someone is much more likely to steal it than recognise my ownership.


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Bartimeus, your very best friend.


Posted By: -hypocritical-
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 20:50
really? this wont work, people will just steal all the good spots that are posted here, or disrupt alliance plans, wars could be started over this


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 20:51
Actually the primary interesting question is: Are there better or worse spots broadly speaking? I mean sure, a given square 5 squares over may be more useful to you than where you are at the moment, but is any one REGION better than another region?


Posted By: -hypocritical-
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 21:14
Originally posted by Larry Larry wrote:

Actually the primary interesting question is: Are there better or worse spots broadly speaking? I mean sure, a given square 5 squares over may be more useful to you than where you are at the moment, but is any one REGION better than another region?
 
 
for a short answer, yes some spaces are better


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 21:36
Originally posted by -hypocritical- -hypocritical- wrote:

Originally posted by Larry Larry wrote:

Actually the primary interesting question is: Are there better or worse spots broadly speaking? I mean sure, a given square 5 squares over may be more useful to you than where you are at the moment, but is any one REGION better than another region?
 
 
for a short answer, yes some spaces are better

I'm afraid a short answer won't do. What precisely about some regions make them categorically more useful vs simply "more useful for particular things".


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 21:45
Originally posted by Larry Larry wrote:

*grabs popcorn*


/me brings a six-pack and a couple of chairs...


Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 21:55
we dont know how the biomes or factions are goin to be seeded so you can speculate on what spots are better, but really we have no idea yet


Posted By: KarL Aegis
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 22:09
You know we will just take all the spots next to the gnomes and build seige engines to clobber eachother.

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I am not amused.


Posted By: -hypocritical-
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 22:14
Originally posted by Larry Larry wrote:

Originally posted by -hypocritical- -hypocritical- wrote:

Originally posted by Larry Larry wrote:

Actually the primary interesting question is: Are there better or worse spots broadly speaking? I mean sure, a given square 5 squares over may be more useful to you than where you are at the moment, but is any one REGION better than another region?
 
 
for a short answer, yes some spaces are better

I'm afraid a short answer won't do. What precisely about some regions make them categorically more useful vs simply "more useful for particular things".
 
different biomes, meaning different resource amounts and war benefits to players, for like dwarf only factions
 
also river positions, lake and sea positions, distance from maps, defensive power, can you easily spread out distance from centre of map etc... there is alot of things to concider, you could also break up an alliance that opposes you, making the land the are settling on more valuble
 
obviously most area's wont have all these, but there are deffo more favouritable places than others


Posted By: KarL Aegis
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 22:28
trying to decide where you want to be without proper information is just zzzzzzzzzzz

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I am not amused.


Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 01:45
how are we going to deal with inactive alliance members?

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Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo....


Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 01:57
Kick them.


Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 02:00
what if the entire alliance is inactive?

-------------
Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo....


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 04:02
< ="utf-8">
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Originally posted by Larry Larry wrote:

*grabs popcorn*


/me brings a six-pack and a couple of chairs...

Its a regular party!

Originally posted by some random guy some random guy wrote:

what if the entire alliance is inactive?

Burn them to the ground for the lulz.


Posted By: Laccy
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 10:00
I intend to use the area next to mountain ranges because I like the way gnomes bounce between the peaks when they are tossed at them.


Posted By: Shrapnel
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 14:17
I've gotten exactly 0 support on this idea both here and in the forums mostly from what I see as a lot of faulty logic.  I'll touch upon what I think are the 3 top ones:
 
1.  "I don't want to give my enemies an advantage.  If I announce where I want to go, they'll take my spot from me."  I think this is faulty because it assumes your spot is the only good spot, but mostly because once you actually put your town in the spot you've chosen, they'll find it anyway and if they are willing to go to war for it, they'll just take it from you.  Declaring your spot ahead of time is actually beneficial because you'll find out who else wants your spot and then the two opposing sides can work together and find another spot equally as appealing so you both get a good spot (or at least you'll know who your enemy is).  Finally, I'm not so much proposing we give the exact square but rather a region like the range you want your alliance to settle in.
 
2.  "We can't work together. "  We already do this all the time to keep the peace or punish aggressors.  How can you say we can't do something we do all the time?  This will only be true if we actually  make the choice not to work together.  It won't be because we can't, it will be because we choose not to.
 
3.  "Not enough information."  I wasn't proposing we start making decisions right now.  Of course we would make the decisions once the biomes and factions are placed.  I'm just bringing it up now so we could start discussing things.  Good idea considering all the opposition.
 
Whether this idea can work or not, I'd appreciate a little more open mindedness and constructive thought thant I've seen so far.  Instead of being the "party of no", how about some constructive counter ideas?  One such counter idea I had was instead of planning ahead of time which spots we take, we just go about business as usaual until after eveyone has moved their towns and the time for using the spell has passed.  We then wait for the town move feature the GMs have planned and we can then barter for land.  We can trade spots (or not if you're 100% happy where your alliance is situated).  This could be done on a much smaller scale and just between the two (or more) interested parties.
 


Posted By: bartimeus
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 17:02
1. If I announce where I see a good spot, and an evil darve finds it is better than the spot he had found, he will take it. Most likely he won't warn me before-hand, he will just rush to it and I will have to either get over it or war with him (which is out of the question unless he is much much smaller than me, as the town wall will give him the advantage). I realy doupt he would try to bargain with me so we can each be satisfied... He will just take all the good spot he needs if he feels he is stronger than me, and leave me only the left overs.
And even if there are multple good spot, evil guys might just not want to bother wasting time looking for one when some have allready been found and regrouped in a nice little topic.

The only way I would accept to tell my good spot would be if the top 3 alliances accepted to seek and destroy anyone stealing a square mentionned in the forum. the first to mention each spot would obviously be it's owner (you can only own as much as the number of city you have).
Even with this methode, I dont think it will stop some from stealing.


2. when you so called "work together", it is usually on the scale of one alliance. Maybe a few alliance can team up, but they only have a couple of mixte operation. the rest of the time they just share a common goal (ex: destroy this player or this alliance) but without much coherency. 
and most of the time, the alliance doesn't work together, they just follow the orders of the 4 or 5 active players.

So unlike you, i don't think we do "work together" when the scale is bigger than 10 people, let alone bigger than 1 alliance.
Keep in mind there are about 22000 towns to move... (lets admit half of them are inactive, this still makes 11000 towns)


3. "not enought info" hey, I'm on your side for this one, You may notice i didn't mention this in my earlier post. And You were rigth to create this topic now. just because we cannot know which are the good spot, doesn't mean we cann't decide how to agree on who should get which spot.


I like your idea to make alliance agree which general area they want, but aren't big alliance going to have it their way? and new players would be sort of forced to join the alliance in their area rather than the one they like...
Nevertheless, big alliances should indicate which general area they want to control so than smaller alliances can choose to go elsewhere so as to keep some territorial influence.

I think the dev mentionned that the town move feature is going to be very painfull if your city is big. so it migth not be a solution to wait and trade spot...

Maybe we could create an external forum in which only people who agree to;
1. not to steal , and 2. to destroy anyone who joined then stole.
would be accepted. in that forum, all location would be recorded as well as the owner.
I think that would be in utopia and most people would not join. (some people might even join the external forum with one account and steal with the other account, claiming they didn't know it was allready wanted.)


Well, most of that was a brainstorming, To sum up; the only thing that seams feasable would be to get alliance to announce where they want to go.






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Bartimeus, your very best friend.


Posted By: Shrapnel
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 18:07
Bartimeus, if that evil dwarf in your example wants your spot, he's going to take it (assuming he's big enough) whether you place your town there or not.  I would agree with you if we had fog of war at this point, then we wouldn't know where everyone is or what spots they found, but we'll all be able to find the same spots you found once you settle your city.  I did like your idea of having big alliances agree to enforce decisions.  That's a possibility.  I also like your idea of creating an external forum.  Maybe  the whole Illyriad community doesn't have to agree, but just a few of the most peaceful alliances can work together.  Let those who want to fight fight, and those of us who want to work together can do so as well. 
 
A light bulb just lit up in my head.  This may not fly, but it's a cool idea in theory.  The GMs said the further away from the center, the more dangerous the factions.  What if the most peaceful alliances formed a mass confederation and moved all their towns to the edges of the map.  We could then be like peace keepers and tame these unruly factions for the glory of Illyriad as they are enemies of peace.  If enough of us moved there, we should be able to protect each other depending on how tough the GMs make them. 


Posted By: lep
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 20:44
The top alliances ganging up together to punish anyone who takes a claimed spot may seem fine for all you forum freaks.

Personally I normally go months without looking at a forum for a game I'm playing, if game is simple enough quite possible won't ever. Only reason I've used these forums so much is because I find Illyriad rather different and more complex than most games.

Just because someone doesn't read a forum does not mean they deserve a ton of much higher ranked players destroying them for as far as they would be able to tell no reason whatsoever.

Hopefully if this mega alliance did get together ranks 4-10 could get together and beat up on the big three for their bullying high handed tactics.


Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 21:49
Hah... now if you can convince people to band together with the mega alliance and not join the big three instead... in... the ultimate battle of ultimate destiny!

Cause I'm sure the current big three have better political support then the previous coalition enemy...


Posted By: KarL Aegis
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 22:21
You guys don't even know who the big three are, how can you fight them? And having gigantic alliances enforce rules that don't exist officially makes the game boring. We shall fight (unless you are PEACE, in which case, you shall be non-agressive)

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I am not amused.


Posted By: KHall
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 22:26
I think the best way to secure a location is to get there first and defend it against anyone who would want to take control of it.Angry If you can't hold them off then its not your land.Ouch 


Posted By: iluvpie3
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 20:03
Originally posted by Shrapnel Shrapnel wrote:

The GMs said the further away from the center, the more dangerous the factions.  What if the most peaceful alliances formed a mass confederation and moved all their towns to the edges of the map.  We could then be like peace keepers and tame these unruly factions for the glory of Illyriad as they are enemies of peace.  If enough of us moved there, we should be able to protect each other depending on how tough the GMs make them.
 
First off,peaceful alliances are just that,peaceful.Why would they want to be caught in a struggle with a blood-thirsty AI when they dont like to fight?
 
Second,I dont know about you Shrap,but I like games where fighting is the norm.All this peace,hug hands, and trade,thats not what we all play for.Some of us really like the challenge of fighting,it makes the game a whole lot more interesting.
 
@ your main post
 
  Biomes havent been put in yet.What may be a nice valley surrounded by mountains could very well be an Arctic ******** in 3 months,or an uninhabited desert.Do I like the idea of each alliance having its own region?Of course.But that doesnt require all the alliances to work together.Map it out in your own alliance and work together,I've done it in 3 other games similar to this.
  Another thing that just hit me.This will work for say,the top 20 alliances.But where do all the small fry(including myself) go?Should we get the dregs or outskirts just because we found this game later than others?I dont consider that fair.
 
It's not that I dislike your idea,but it needs to be put on hold till Biomes,then perhaps we can debate about this.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 21:49
I'm not going to post specific locations, but just suffice to say that we're looking to move to several different areas so as to be in a position to explore all the new functionality that's coming (rivers, seas, biomes, factions, etc.)

It's a risk in terms of not having all one's forces close by but more interesting for hopefully getting some local action and being able to see more of the world.

KP


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 00:17
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

I'm not going to post specific locations, but just suffice to say that we're looking to move to several different areas so as to be in a position to explore all the new functionality that's coming (rivers, seas, biomes, factions, etc.)

It's a risk in terms of not having all one's forces close by but more interesting for hopefully getting some local action and being able to see more of the world.

KP
 
Oh, and we're not teaming up with anyone to police the server per the above comments.


Posted By: Shrapnel
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 01:57
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

 
Oh, and we're not teaming up with anyone to police the server per the above comments.


Ya H? doesn't have to team up with anyone to police the server. Tongue

To iluvpie:  there is no right or wrong way to play this game.  People can play peacefully if they wish.  This is one thing I like about this game, the multiple ways to play it and the meta game opportunities.


Posted By: KarL Aegis
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 02:02
Metagame
Heracross is the biggest threat out there.
Everyone runs Scizor
Scizors only weakness is fire
Noone runs fire types
Tyrantitar is a beast.
Rock type weakness means you are dead. Every time.


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I am not amused.


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2010 at 04:24
Originally posted by Shrapnel Shrapnel wrote:

Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

 
Oh, and we're not teaming up with anyone to police the server per the above comments.


Ya H? doesn't have to team up with anyone to police the server. Tongue

 
Low blow :)... (and untrue). We would never try, and even if we did, we'd get our rear ends handed to us...


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2010 at 04:29
Low blow?  A low blow is more like that thing at that place that time.  THAT was low.


Posted By: King EAM
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2010 at 17:23
I think that if we all had a big meeting of alliance leaders it could stop a HUGE war over land.
But on the other hand it might start one also.


Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2010 at 19:14
try saying this 5 times fast: "low blow, bro"

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Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo....


Posted By: -hypocritical-
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2010 at 19:46
Originally posted by some random guy some random guy wrote:

try saying this 5 times fast: "low blow, bro"
low low bro I got :S


Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 03:22
How about everyone just stays where they are and toughen up

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http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin


Posted By: liberty6
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 03:41
Originally posted by Larry Larry wrote:

*grabs popcorn*

me too this is going to go like the lockers at my school.


Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 05:05
Originally posted by G0DsDestroyer G0DsDestroyer wrote:

How about everyone just stays where they are and toughen up


Is that just preaching I hear or are you and your alliance actually going to toughen up?


Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 05:16
Originally posted by Zangi Zangi wrote:

Originally posted by G0DsDestroyer G0DsDestroyer wrote:

How about everyone just stays where they are and toughen up


Is that just preaching I hear or are you and your alliance actually going to toughen up?
 
good question i'd call it preaching since some of my alliance members will actually move while i won't


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http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin



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