Pre-Faction AI Launch Guide |
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Tensmoor 
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Joined: 07 Apr 2015 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 1579 |
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 Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 00:43 |
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If not then I can fairly quickly put something together to do that and add it into DurcTools. Depending on how frequently the 'radius of operations' will be updating it should be fairly easy to update the Faction Action page I used to have to have it so you can enter a search by faction, region, or standing with player races. If either of those things are something the players feel is needed then let me know. This is sounding really great JJ and you have obviously all put a heck of a lot of time and effort into this already. Tens
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Tucic
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Location: Michigan- USA Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Posted: 09 Mar 2022 at 03:19 |
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So I was going through and looking at the medal section and noticed not all of the faction emblems are available to use on the medals. I was wondering if that was going to changed with the update or if those factions will award their own NPC medal after prerequisites or will this stay the same?
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GM Jejune
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GM Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Location: Illyriad Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: 09 Mar 2022 at 14:22 |
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Thanks, Tucic. Honestly, we haven't thought much about medals, but it's a great idea. We probably wouldn't have medals auto-awarded by the Factions for, say, achieving a certain ranking, since the rankings will be fluid. For example, if there was a medal for reaching +90 with a faction, a player might stray in and out of +90 fequently, based on their day-to-day interactions with that faction and their enemies. Perhaps there could be medals in the future for completing faction quests, or for maining an average ranking of X for Y amount of days. Something like that.
Again, great idea!
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Sif
Greenhorn 
Joined: 10 Apr 2021 Location: Athens Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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Posted: 10 Mar 2022 at 09:21 |
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Congratulations
for your effort until now and for your new position for now on , I am not
really familiar with the English nor with the internet platforms nor with the faction play until now so apologise if I make a mistake for any these
reasons. For the game
has two ways the that sometime are separate and sometimes alongside 1) the lonely
way (single play ) and 2) the interaction
with each other way ( multiplayer )
The factions
I believe must affect both ways by motivation to interact with them for personal gain .
I will post
some ideas about the 2 (multiplayer )
cause is the one I care most Motivation : the
player with the bigger rank* with the
faction the present time (refresh every second ) should allow entrance to a
panel similar to the town/alliance panel with some options about : a) tax rate in the radios , b) bonus in the radios cities , c)change
the recouirement rank to be able to trade with the hub and d) make use
of the armies of the faction ( but only to be used for in the raking area
meaning you cannot attack a player that has friendly ranking with the faction )
e) things
like that………………..
*alternatively
there could be some cities (3 for each faction) that are unrassable ( only capturable ) and
the owner of all the cities control the faction.
About ranking
:
6 raking factors
1) Rank between factions ( uncahnchable
) 2) Race factor ( uncahnchable ) 3) Aggressions toward the current faction
(-10…..-50 depending each day by 1) 4) Successful quest made by the faction
( periodically and depending on your rank and the rank of the current faction
with hostile or not friendly faction give quest such as attack to faction army
, raze cities of high ranking of the opposite faction players , kill harvester …….
(+10…..+50 depending each day by 1) 5) Distance from the hub , the closer your towns are are to the hub the
biggest the impact of your rank % (+ % /distance for each town for all your positive
ranks ) 6) players ranking each others secretly
,
each player can rank each other player by +/- 1 each day starting from 0 by default . so ex. player A rank player B +50 and player B rank A +10 and both are
in the radius of the faction so player A has a +50 with the faction and player B
+10 toward the faction but if player A has rank player B with +90 and he attacks him he suffer
a -90 rank with the faction ( depending each day by 1 ) this rank will be secret but can be reveal by spying the capital.
Factions opt in and out 1) factions that at the radious players
are opt in by deafalt 2) factions that at the radious if the
most players are opt in they wake 3) factions that are NOT opt in by any
way
The hole
point for me is getting control of the factions by players but at a norm set by
the DEVS |
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GM Jejune
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GM Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Location: Illyriad Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: 10 Mar 2022 at 14:15 |
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Sif, thank you for your excellent post! You are correct that Faction AI will eventually include actions that factions may take for or against both players and alliances. The system launch will focus on players' rankings with the NPC factions first, and the next iteration will expand rankings and actions to include alliances as well. Players will not be required to be in an alliance to enjoy the features of Faction AI, but alliances will have access to some features that players will not have access to.
In terms of faction action and behaviors, I would say that a lot of your ideas more or less align with what we've designed thus far. Our plan is to eventually have a wide range of potential actions and behaviors that factions may engage in with players and alliances, ranging from trade and city building to diplomacy and combat. As far as ranking factors go, we've decided to keep those secret, as it will be encumbant upon the player base to experiment with the factions and determine which actions make rankings go up and down. We feel like this is going to be a big part of the fun, since we know that Illyriad players are very intellectually curious and will keep testing and experimentating until they learn the system (even better than us!) Over time, the ranking algorithm will get increasingly sophisticated and granular so that there will be an ongoing challenge to remain on the vanguard of Faction AI.
Edited by GM Jejune - 11 Mar 2022 at 00:04 |
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Tensmoor
Postmaster General
Joined: 07 Apr 2015 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 1579 |
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Posted: 10 Mar 2022 at 15:45 |
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Just as well I've stopped playing - trying to figure this all out would probably fry that last braincell
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demdigs
Postmaster
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 570 |
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Posted: 10 Mar 2022 at 22:13 |
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how will we work with the factions? will it be something like a drop down menu or a page with a list of options?
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GM Jejune
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GM Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Location: Illyriad Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: 11 Mar 2022 at 00:09 |
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Players will interact with factions just as they do with other players, cities, encampments, hubs, NC units, etc. All of the actions we take in-game on a regular basis will have an impact on a player's ranking with a particular faction where they are directed at that faction. There shouldn't be any new or additional functionality needed.
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BrianN
Greenhorn
Joined: 30 Jul 2019 Location: Wisconsin, USA Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 00:09 |
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I think I have to do the same disclaimer I did in the other thread: My communication is blunt, what I say is what I say and people often presume I say things that I do not. Im not saying that Jejune sucks or that this is a bad idea or that we shouldn't do these things. Im not saying anything but what I am saying. Please take them at face value and what they are for, not for what you think they are for. I think that this could be a great thing for Illy, a game ive spent hundreds of hours on. People often (so since its often, yes, I do deserve some of the blame for not making it clearer) assume that I am being combative, but I just think in different ways and am attuned to Unintended Consequences. It was my job for many years to see these things, its my mental makeup, and is often responsible for my blunt nature So, since my other concerns have not been addressed for 3 weeks, Ive been assured that if I use short concise questions they will be addressed. So here you go...ill take them in order brought up. "If you’ve never taken time to read up on the Factions, now is the time to do your homework." and "It is worth reviewing all of the Factions nearest you to see if your base standing with them has changed." This is also addressed by Tensmoor "Just as well I've stopped playing - trying to figure this all out would probably fry that last braincell "...what do you say to those who have spent a lot of time setting up their empires who are now at risk of having a great deal of their work wiped out by a change that will not be beta tested by a range of the playerbase? This project does not have the luxury of having a track record of the people developing it being successful in anything (and the early reviews on community engagement are bad). "The IFS indicates the rankings that Factions have with one another. Understanding the relationships between Factions is going to be critically important, since actions with or against one Faction will have reciprocal ranking effects with other Factions. " What do you mean by actions? Does this include having goods stored in their hub? Or moving goods into/out of their hub? Or simply defending yourself against the factions' attacks? "These are the actions that Factions may take on your behalf or against you based on your ranking. Look for these actions to substantially change and increase with the launch, offering all kinds of new benefits (and threats) to players and alliances. " To what extent? Will there now be massive roaming bands of NPCs that will destroy other alliances that don't properly suck up to the NPCs? Will alliance X's jumpstart on faction play cause them to have a tactical advantage (the answer to this is already yes, but by how much)? "Each Faction will have custom-sized radii around their hubs, based on their Faction characteristics. " Who will be determining these radii? People with already set loyalties to and against certain people/alliances? "Some players are already wondering if they will need to move cities because of the launch of Faction AI. The answer to that will vary from player to player." You do not see a problem where people can be forced to move cities for arbitrary reasons? "If a player is within reach of a Faction that is hostile to them, they can either exodus out of the Faction’s action radius, or work toward improving relations with the Faction just enough so that they won’t be a target of any hostilities. " And the people who are away from the game long enough that their cities are decimated before they come back? What is your response to them? So do you think that if the things that happen with NPCs in Calumnex would happen everywhere, would more people play the game or more get frustrated and quit? "Overall, NPC Factions are going to be highly active and will factor into virtually every aspect of gameplay. " So shouldn't people from virtually every aspect of gameplay be able to advise on its impacts? "Having an account on the Illy Slack Server for Faction Play is not a requirement to play with and enjoy Faction AI." However, so far, my issues that I have brought up in the game and these forums have been ignored, and im not able to use Slack so what is my option? Doing a petition ingame is obviously useless as I have multiple ones open for over a year and nothing done about them. "Rather than spending eons to design, code and test everything we have planned, we thought it best to release Faction AI in stages and get the entire gaming community into the fun and action as soon as possible." This makes SOME sense, but there should be SOME testing done before some small oversight causes irrereperable harm. Ammi said:"Don't get me wrong, maybe that is a wonderful effort in the interest of a majority of players, but up to know I just see it as an interference to PvP play. Also I think it is making the game more difficult for players whose account is more widely spread. They will have to adjust to more factions, which maybe even opposed to each other." As someone who has one PVP account and one hunting account greatly spread out, this is where a lot of these issues I see come from. Differing viewpoints are important Gilsus also brought up some points that I am interested in, and I see that neither of their concerns have been addressed. Overall, I have problems with not knowing what is going into this when there is no track record for the person implementing them. That there isn't a sufficient number/mindset to think of all the problems that one new programmer couldn't see or think of (again, im not disparaging Jejune...no one person can see all the ramifications).
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GM Jejune
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GM Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Location: Illyriad Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 01:19 |
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Many thanks for your questions, Brian! I appreciate your passion for the game and your candor. I'll address them below in turn:
First off, I will say that players don't risk "having a great deal of their work wiped out" by Faction AI. The various PvE features in the game have to this point never posed any kind of existential threat to players, and Faction AI will be no exception to that rule. There will be possible negative actions that NPC factions may take against players, but the threshold for these actions will be very low on the negative side of the action scale, meaning that players will need to behave negatively with an NPC faction in a pro-active, consistent manner to provoke such actions. The vast majority of players will sit within a range of the ranking system and action scale that won't provoke active aggressive action against them. In other words, it isn't as if the Faction AI switch will be turned on and everyone will be getting strafed by a half-dozen factions at once, all the time. Second, the system is going to be rigorously tested by a team of testers who are not part of the design or coding team and who are intimately familiar with the game. Illyriad has a strong track record of launching game expansions since 2010 that have been incredibly stable and widely embraced by the gaming community here. Faction AI will not be released until or unless our team is 100% confident that the system is ready for prime time. And to be clear: Faction AI is not a feature that I'm solely developing. I'm just one member of a larger team of designers, coders, and testers who are working on the project to bring it to fruition. Those who are coding and building the features are true professionals in their field who have had measurable success in developing similarly sophisticated gaming systems in the past.
All of the above, and more. Actions that involve specific factions and their hubs will have incremental effects on a player's ranking with them. This is why I've characterized Faction AI as touching "every aspect of the game." It won't just involve combat; traders, crafters, harvesters, and city builders will be able to use their gaming skills to affect the rankings in a number of ways.
No, I can say with confidence that there won't be "massive roaming bands of NPCs that will destroy other alliances." The "substantial changes" will occur as we roll out future expansions to Faction AI. To recap: the initial launch will be a "Player 1.0" version that will only govern players' rankings and actions with NPC factions. Later on, we'll release the alliance ranking and action system, which will have additional ranking factors and actions. After that, there will be "2.0" versions of both player and alliance ranking and action systems that will introduce even more ranking factors and behaviors.
Since the alliance portion of Faction AI will come later, it's hard to quantify that right now. I don't envision NPC factions posing any more of an existential threat to alliances than I do players, but I will say that if alliances begin thinking about how they can optimize relationships with NPC factions sooner rather than later, I think it would benefit them to some degree.
No, people with "already set loyalties to and against certain people/alliances" will not be determining these radii. They are based on several factors, including the faction's racial characteristics, the number of factions that belong to a particular race, the number of hubs that exist within those groupings, and profile characteristics as suggested by the lore. A great deal of effort has been made to use the lore and other faction content that is already in the game to color the behaviors and characteristics of the NPC factions.
I think there will be a desire among many in the player base to move cities because they want to get within certain action radii and interact with specific factions. As noted previously, the NPC factions won't be an existential threat to cities, and I wouldn't call any in-game feature that engages players to be "arbitrary."
The NPC behaviors in Calumnex are not representative of the vast majority of NPC factions throughout Illyria. If you study the faction profile pages, you'll see that most of the factions have thriving cultures and a desire to interact with other communities. Most of the Default Racial Standings (DRS) of non-monstrous factions fall within a range of +30 and -30 -- ranges that are well out of any "danger zone" for being attacked. Yes, monstrous factions are aggressive -- they tend to have DRS of -80 or lower for all races. There are only 6 of those factions worldwide, or ~6% of all factions. Furthermore, monstrous factions or otherwise do not "decimate" cities. For sure, they can decimate troops. But these are dangers that already exist in the game and players are accustomed to confronting.
The dev team is listening intently to the player community on Faction AI and will continue to engage in a dialogue as the features are rolled out. I've already heard from countless players who have offered a wide range of truly insightful ideas and concerns -- including you. I cannot tell you how valuable and appreciated that feedback is, as I know firsthand how passionate and creative this community is. Game developers are never able to keep up with the crowdscourced ingenuity of a gaming community, and Illyriad is no exception. I'm looking forward to keeping this dialogue open and evolving Faction AI into a truly immersive gaming feature for Illyriad. We can only do that with the creative input and participation of players like you who add so much to the experience.
Sorry, Brian! I didn't note questions in your previous post, which is why I didn't respond. I did, however, read your post very carefully and took your concerns seriously.
I promise you that we are taking testing very seriously. There is no way that SC will allow anything untested or sub-par to go live on the server until we know that it is going to function according to plan.
I don't take it personally at all, Brian, and I understand that the community here only knows about the team members who have in-game GM accounts. I can only stress that there are more people involved in the development of this feature than myself, and who are proven professionals in game design and development. I promise you that I am not the only person working on this -- not by a long shot. I hope this respponse answered some of your questions, as well as some other folks' questions as well. I'll do my level best to respond when I can in the forums and elsewhere on all things faction. Thanks!
Edited by GM Jejune - 18 Mar 2022 at 13:17 |
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Tucic wrote: