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Jane DarkMagic 
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Location: Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 554
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 Posted: 11 Sep 2012 at 03:31 |
 The Electrocutioner wrote:
(PS - As an aside, the "tactic" of sending vans with resources was utterly ignorable and would not be worth comment. However, a friend set up a friendly blockade on Sir Bradly's capital, and good dozen or so were sent back limping on a very long journey home. I hope they enjoy having their vans out for a couple of extra days! Please feel free to keep doing that - we found it quite entertaining.)
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Caravans can't hurt you. The reason you responded so rashly too them is that they signify that a number of people are too mature to actually want to waste time on an alliance that is throwing a temper tantrum and crying out for attention like a spoiled child. The Illy community has given you your lollipop, now settle down and take a nap.
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AdamTheGreat
Greenhorn
Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 52
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Posted: 11 Sep 2012 at 03:27 |
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Myr set up a blockade.......
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 11 Sep 2012 at 03:22 |
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awww, poor Adam, your intentions were good. It's amazing the inconvenience people will put themselves in an attempt to spite people who are turning the other cheek, so to speak.
Edited by Rill - 11 Sep 2012 at 03:22
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AdamTheGreat
Greenhorn
Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 52
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Posted: 11 Sep 2012 at 03:18 |
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i Lost like 20 vans, just sending resc to help out a bit :(
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 11 Sep 2012 at 03:15 |
I would be most interested to see documentation of any of these claims (other than the blockade thing -- it didn't affect the van I sent, so I don't much care about it). I am reachable by in-game mail or forum mail. In the absence of such documentation, I have to say I think it's fairly likely you're making most of this up in a desperate attempt to smear Gim, which is sad when there are so many grounds to legitimately criticize him. 
I don't agree with everything that Gim does or the way he does it. If you decide that disagreeing with him or not liking him is reason enough to attack his alliance mates, that is on you. I highly doubt that you have the legions of cheering fans that you have claimed, however. Most people I talk with on Illy (which is, granted, far from everyone) do not support attacking alliance members based on a personality conflict with their leader.
I do not doubt that your hearing in this matter is highly selective. Basing decisions on selective intelligence, while satisfying to the ego, can lead one to overestimate one's support.
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The Electrocutioner
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Location: Arran
Status: Offline
Points: 234
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Posted: 11 Sep 2012 at 02:28 |
There have been a number of good points raised in this thread, many of them similar. Kurdruk articulated them best, so we would like to respond to his post.
LordOfTheSwamp wrote:
The Electrocutioner wrote:
I recommend that you don't get too bent up about it. Unless you are in STEEL, it doesn't concern you. |
Yeah, it does actually. You've just launched a whole salvo of aggressive attacks because you thought it would be fun. If the mentality of the game changes to endorse this behaviour, then that absolutely concerns me, and everyone else who plays. |
Kurdruk's point is highly valid. If an alliance is attacking just to amuse themselves, it is very much a concern for all of Illy. However... we did not attack only (or even primarily) for fun. We attacked because we have a target who richly deserves it AND we enjoy it. Both conditions have to be present for us to consider an action like this. We have never attacked and will never attack anyone solely for fun. It is essential that they deserve it.
In the case of Gim, the reasons for his deserving it are plentiful. Here are a few:
- Some time ago, he tried to get a coalition of other alliances to attack us over a territory dispute that was already resolved and did not concern him. (He failed. And of course he wanted other people to do the fighting, not himself or Steel.)
- He contacted one of our members behind our backs to try to convince him to reveal private information and to disparage us. (This failed, and of course our member shared the transcript with us.)
- He has tried to poach players from our alliance. (And failed, of course.)
- He called one of our members a bigoted epithet that was way over the line and probably not acceptable to post in this forum.
- In the Aesir/TLR conflict where ~NC~ provided the majority of the military might, Gim again inserted himself into something that was none of his business. He pretended to be neutral, when in fact he worked solely for the interests of Aesir, where his alt resided.
- In the days before we began our diplo campaign, we learned from two separate alliances (with whom we do not have close ties) that Steel was trying to organize attacks on the Night Confederation, supposedly to repay us for our involvement in the Aesir/TLR mess. This was the last straw that caused us to decide to be proactive and attack first. (Gim, your alliance appears to be crawling with the moles of your many enemies. Information is coming to us unsolicited from all sorts of unexpected directions.)
We are attacking Steel because they deserve it. And, we happen to enjoy it. But we would never attack anyone simply for pleasure alone. Gim has worked hard over a long period of time to find people to attack us. (As long as it's not himself or his alliance!) Since he wanted the fight so badly, we decided to bring it to him.
LordOfTheSwamp wrote:
The Electrocutioner wrote:
And if you should decide to join forces with STEEL and attack us, well then you don't have too much respect for them, do you? They are 3 alliances with over 100 members, and we are only 10 players total. You'd think they could handle us on their own, wouldn't you? |
Ah, and I was so impressed by the honesty of the opening remarks :-( That is completely disingenuous. All players are not equal. [...] In other words, Steel are massively vulnerable. |
Kurdruk is right - our comment there was disingenuous, although deliberately so. (I'd hoped the sarcasm was obvious.) We are very much trying to make a point about how weak Gim and Steel actually are.
Gim grew Steel on the premise of being strong enough to stand up to Consone. Really? They can't even stand up for themselves! Anyone who joined Steel wanting to be a part of building something big and strong has been duped. It does not matter how many join or how many sister alliances they have - a weak leader means a weak alliance.
Kurdruk commented in a separate post that Gim is not asking for help. On this, Kurdruk is simply misinformed. Gim has sent an IGM to practically every player on the server, and had a chatzy or skype conversation with half of them. The tone of desperation is quite amusing. He has been frantic and tireless in his efforts to find others to fight the battle that he has brought on himself. Anyone from Harmless? to alliances with 3 members have been approached with pleas for them to swoop in and save poor little helpless Steel.
We are hearing from a surprising amount of players who have grievances with Gim, and they are quietly cheering us on. We didn't want or expect that, but it is highly interesting. It will be very interesting indeed to see what develops.
Regards, The Electrocutioner (on behalf of Night Crusaders)
(PS - As an aside, the "tactic" of sending vans with resources was utterly ignorable and would not be worth comment. However, a friend set up a friendly blockade on Sir Bradly's capital, and good dozen or so were sent back limping on a very long journey home. I hope they enjoy having their vans out for a couple of extra days! Please feel free to keep doing that - we found it quite entertaining.)
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 11 Sep 2012 at 00:02 |
Rasak wrote:
That seems well said, but I think they choose to have issue Steel. Right or wrong they are doing exactly as you said. They are playing the game the way they want. Who are you to tell them to change it to a different type of game cause you disagree? It seems to me they are playing the war game just as they have pictured it. |
That is fine. It is where they strive to dictate the responses of others, such as suggesting that others should let STEEL fight this on their own rather than acting as allies, that I find they overstep. They have chosen their particular course, but they don't get to decide how everyone else "should" respond to it.
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scaramouche
Forum Warrior
Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 432
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Posted: 10 Sep 2012 at 18:12 |
Hadus wrote:
[QUOTE=Salararius] STEEL doesn't seem to care if you attack them, I don't care, others here don't care. Go find a corner and play a war game if that is your wish. |
you obviously care enough to warrant a post, and I, as being " one of the others " care. even if it is just from a spectators position.
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Hadus
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 545
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Posted: 10 Sep 2012 at 14:52 |
Salararius wrote:
so, you made a bunch of anonymous attacks and then posted about it here because you were tired of all the talk, talk, talk and politics?
Wow, you guys really thought this out. You're obviously thinking circles around the rest of us. You owe Grim an apology because he could have turned this into a real political brewhaha if he had wanted to.
Here's a question though. If you 10 are so bored and are looking for a real fight, why don't you divide into two teams of 5 and fight a real war? At least then you would have a fight against worthy opponents. Why fight someone you so clearly feel is inferior and why waste the forums time by telling us about it? STEEL doesn't seem to care if you attack them, I don't care, others here don't care. Go find a corner and play a war game if that is your wish.
I do not understand why the people that want to play a war game can't stop talking about it and just do it. This "game" can be like 5 or 10 or 20 or ?? games. You can play a wargame, other people can play cityville, others can play tradeville, others can play mysteryville, others can play a large MMOG. If you want a war game, find someone else who also wants a war game like the one you want and start a war game. If you want to tromp around like a bully though, well that's different. If you want to be the self appointed Mrs. Manners of Illy, that's different too. Some people might just object to either of those decisions and you're going to wade hip deep into a lot of talk, talk, talk and politics in either situation.
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I can't speak for NC, but it be based on the reasoning of "If you tell someone not to do something, they want to do it even more." Part of the entertainment for these guys probably comes from the sincerity of the conflict, the unexpectedness and unpredictability of it, and the metagame involved in how to handle an organic conflict situation rather than a synthetic, manufactured one. Not a defense of their actions, just a speculation.
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N. Chadgod
Greenhorn
Joined: 30 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 69
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Posted: 10 Sep 2012 at 11:27 |
 I support anything that brings more conflict to this game even if Grim and co. dont seem to care.
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It's beyond fairytale, it's inconceivable!
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Night Crusaders / STEEL conflict
