new ranking leader Rupe!

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   The rankings primarily indicate one's knowledge of gaming the ranking system. I think people dislike the rank system mostly because the term "ranking" implies functional skill with the game, as opposed to the specialized (and impractical) skill of manipulating the score. Folks just need to accept that the #1 Attack player is the one with the most attack points, and not necessarily the best attacker. The latter is subjective, but over the course of many tournaments and wars, the longtime players have developed an understanding of who those players really are. The same is true of trade, diplomacy, and other categories.

I would never vote to do away with the system. Even if some people manipulate the numbers, the rank scores do tell us certain things. Speaking as an engineer, trying to construct code to detect intentional manipulation would be a fool's errand. For starters, you would never be able to detect everything, making enforcement uneven, and leading to accusations of unfairness. Such a system could never be automated without a lot of effort, which would lead to manual interpretation of the results, which is inherently subjective and effort intensive. Automation code and manual screening both cost money, and where exactly is the ROI?

Anyway, congrats to Rupe on reaching the top rank. I agree with Twilights, it does require technical knowledge of the game to attain, and knowledge is always respectable. 

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Brandmeister Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 2396	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brandmeister Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Topic: new ranking leader Rupe! Posted: 14 May 2015 at 19:52
	The rankings primarily indicate one's knowledge of gaming the ranking system. I think people dislike the rank system mostly because the term "ranking" implies functional skill with the game, as opposed to the specialized (and impractical) skill of manipulating the score. Folks just need to accept that the #1 Attack player is the one with the most attack points, and not necessarily the best attacker. The latter is subjective, but over the course of many tournaments and wars, the longtime players have developed an understanding of who those players really are. The same is true of trade, diplomacy, and other categories. I would never vote to do away with the system. Even if some people manipulate the numbers, the rank scores do tell us certain things. Speaking as an engineer, trying to construct code to detect intentional manipulation would be a fool's errand. For starters, you would never be able to detect everything, making enforcement uneven, and leading to accusations of unfairness. Such a system could never be automated without a lot of effort, which would lead to manual interpretation of the results, which is inherently subjective and effort intensive. Automation code and manual screening both cost money, and where exactly is the ROI? Anyway, congrats to Rupe on reaching the top rank. I agree with Twilights, it does require technical knowledge of the game to attain, and knowledge is always respectable.

twilights Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster Joined: 21 May 2012 Status: Offline Points: 915	Post Options Post Reply Quote twilights Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 18:13
	thus this is where the gm needs to step in and make a ruling... u can have your opinion but really what u complianting about is not against the rules, it just players not falling into what u consider a form of cheating...so where are the devs and why not make a rule and prevent that play...what players have to accept is that game is alot more deeper than simple perception...the combination of functions and the treating of prestige as a game piece is allowed, we have the alliance prestige pool and we also can buy prestige using gold which many have incorporated into our play style. many of us are also using alliance team play...maybe its time players adopt to the new tools and changes that have been added to the game instead of using dated concepts of what is right and wrong in a game that clearly allows and actually encourages experimentation and ever changing game play. in saying this i encourage players to start playing the ranking game and disreguard the old fashion naysayers whom seem to want an old style approach to the game play that is claerly outdated...congrats VCrows and congrats to Rupe! and its fun to watch quint and ditto making their challeges...just have FUN...its nothing but a silly game!

Berde Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Warrior Joined: 10 Dec 2011 Status: Offline Points: 380	Post Options Post Reply Quote Berde Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 17:49
	I will admit, Rupe is due props. So congrats there. That said, twilights, you seem to think I don't understand how the ranking system works, and so that I 'fear' it. I understand exactly how it works - which is why, for the main, I have no RESPECT for it. There are those who put in the work. They trade without spending hundreds of dollars on Prestige to sell to increase their trade rank, and they don't earn their points by trading mainly with their own accounts and/or sats. Mad props to them. They put in days, weeks, months of gathering and doing calculations on profit, and even organizing entire groups of traders to gain their points. GO THEM. But BECAUSE of people who game the system, it can be hard to tell who those people are. There are those who put in the effort of finding abandoned cities to diplo, or who risk the repercussions of diploing active accounts. As much as we all hate BEING diplo'd, bully to them. They WORKED for it. They risked something, unlike those who diplo their own cities. Gaining a diplo ranking shouldn't be just a matter of "how many times can you repeat the procedure" - that's EXACTLY my point. I have no issue with competitive play. I like competition. I just believe it should actually BE a competition, in a system where you can't game the system for cheap and easy points that make a mockery of those who actually did the work the right way.

twilights Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster Joined: 21 May 2012 Status: Offline Points: 915	Post Options Post Reply Quote twilights Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 10:19
	this is just an example of what it takes to play dip score....which type of dipgives the most points, is it scouts, is it spies, or is it one of the others...do you get more points offencesively or defensively?...how many times can you repeat the proccedure and does it have decline in the number of points if you use a higher number or if you use the dips against a higher number? does terrain or other factors effect points or results? yes alot of knowledge goes into obtaining points in ranking. then there is time management and also logistics support also they is often team play in gaining of points. i think one of reasons players dismiss ranking is that it is competitive and gosh people that often not successful in competition fear any system that they dont understand the complex nature of how it is achieved..experiment in this game and you might understand the hidden combinations of the many functions results and dont be so narrow minded accepting different game play and give it negative feedback because you dont understand it....CONGRATS Rupe and all rankers continue to play on!

Mr Damage Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster Joined: 01 Jan 2011 Status: Offline Points: 598	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mr Damage Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 08:41
	Every system has floors that can be manipulated, I couldn't care less about my own or anyone else's rank but I still think this is a significant achievement so congrats Rupe.

Kavenmetack Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Poster Joined: 19 Oct 2014 Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote Kavenmetack Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 04:52
	lets look at the numbers Rupe's Ranking Build ranked 19 (133,325) Trade ranked 8 (18,096,613,183) Technology 35 (9,853,710) Diplomacy 3 (2,447,795) Attack 22 (5,434,136) Defense 53 (1,403,721) Quests 2 {1,592,340} Magic 1 (261,594,793) ScottFitz's ranks Build ranked 12 (145,635) Trade ranked 14 (13,047,642,355) Technology 6 (10,477,315) Diplomacy 14 (554,573) Attack 1 (14,763,823) Defense 26 (1,854,983) Quests 16 (410,710) Magic 2 (235,801,619) http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/25aug11-overall-ranking-and-score_topic2314.html

Rill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 04:44
	It's been a long chase. Congratulations Rupe! Better watch out though, I heard ScottFitz has a deal brewing with GodsDestroyer for some beer ...

Berde Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Warrior Joined: 10 Dec 2011 Status: Offline Points: 380	Post Options Post Reply Quote Berde Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 03:35
	No. Diplo-attacking your own cities and trading with yourself to increase your ranking isn't "a strategy" nor does it take a lot of time and planning to work out the details. Am I saying that Rupe did this? No. I don't know Rupe. I'm not going to make that assumption. I do know that it happens, however. And until such time as this sort of loophole is closed, rankings are meaningless. There's now way of determining who actually put in the effort of earning their stripes by interacting with other people vs. just playing with themselves. That isn't being narrow minded. That's a fact. An achievement is only an achievement worth recognition if you earned it, and playing with your self and/or your alt isn't earning your stripes. It's taking the easy way out. The only reason I don't call it cheating is because it's not against the rules.

twilights Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster Joined: 21 May 2012 Status: Offline Points: 915	Post Options Post Reply Quote twilights Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 00:32
	thats is truely negative and unfair...yes thats a strategy and it take time and planning to work out details...u would be totally shock of the detail planning all these actions take and the one u mentioned is just one way of gathering these points...there is a combination of other functions that give u a much better return... i urge all to experiment with the various functions and learn these secrets and then as u gain knowledge u might understand why scottfritz was a master for so long..scottfritz is a true legend amongst us rankers...but again play as u want but never be so narrow minded to believe there is only one way to play this game!!!

Berde Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Warrior Joined: 10 Dec 2011 Status: Offline Points: 380	Post Options Post Reply Quote Berde Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 14 May 2015 at 00:24
	Why should anyone care when part of the "strategy" is, in some cases, flat out hinky? The ranking system is so easily gamed by doing things like Diplo-attacking yourself. Until such means of falsely inflating one's own scores can be prevented, there's no way of telling whose rank was truly earned and who wasn't, so ranking is meaningless.