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SunStorm
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 17:44 |
Albatross wrote:
a) How would the designer of the medals know if they were infringing a particular variation, without help from the system? b) How about "price * 2 + 500" for exclusivity of a design? | Good thoughts on an additional fee to "copyright" the design.
gameplayer wrote:
....i just think there is a wrong belief that everything
in this game should be given out free for nothing in return....
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Agreed gameplayer - but then again, this is a free-to-play game. Therefore, the non-paying members should not be greatly disadvantaged by the paying member and the paying member should not buy their way to victory. So you have a good point with the prestige system and how everyone can earn more to enhance their own game-play (even if they never spend a dime).
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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR
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twilights
Postmaster
Joined: 21 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 915
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 17:28 |
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the game gives out free prestige, u can earn it too by bringing in new players to the game, u can also buy it, the medals are suppose to be special, they should have worth, i going to bring in dozens of people so my alliance can award medals........log in everyday too not just once a week...oh i forgot, that last tournament gave out lots of prestige....i just think there is a wrong belief that everything in this game should be given out free for nothing in return....great idea devs! these medals are really going to be special and fun! please prosper from them
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Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 16:59 |
SunStorm wrote:
I foresee alliances adopting a "no copying" policy and enforcing it.
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a) How would the designer of the medals know if they were infringing a particular variation, without help from the system? b) How about "price * 2 + 500" for exclusivity of a design?
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SunStorm
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 16:51 |
Albatross, I am sorry I didnt have a chance to reply. I rushed out the door (after the last post) because I was late for work. got down there to discover there is no work today.
Albatross (condensed version) wrote:
- pay salaries/contracts
- original artwork content costs a lot to do
- this project needs to pay for itself
| Yes - these are all very real aspects behind the medals.
And I see the reason for the high cost. The developers would like to
create these medals to recognize the players who have contributed
greatly to the Illy world (whether it be through alliance tournament,
Server-wide tournament, etc.... The reality is that more players would
buy at lower costs, but the point is not for every player under the sun
to have a medal (Under the sun refers to me of course. All players
above me should have a medal, but the ones beneath me should not...
*j/k - its only an expression).
So going back to what I said in my last post. I find it discouraging that someone who has the cash could create an expensive medal and hand it out at the same cost of a cheap medal.
E.G. Someone designs a simple bronze medal to pass out to 10 players, and for only the design cost, another alliance could develop the most elaborate, gold embellished medal anyone has ever seen, and for the same cost (minus the initial design) could give it out to 10 members. The gold medal should be more expensive to give to players than the bronze one. Lets say the cost of handing the medal out is 20% of the design cost... Someone spends 50 prestige to make a simple (single picture) bronze medal and can flood their alliance at a cost of 10 prestige each. Someone else can design a 350 cost medal and give it out at 70 prestige each. (An elaborate 700 cost medal would cost 140 to hand out.) This is more practical when associating the cost of the materials with the cost of bestowing it upon a player - but then we are still left with alliances flooding the world with bronze medals... And yet, I see more players buying into this in the long run. Alliances could create a simple bronze medal for full members (not initiates, since there is no telling how long they will stick around), and silver for the elite members, and gold for their high council members. (but what happens when a player has been awarded the "gold star" in one alliance and then changes to another.... I am not sure these should be used as insignias for holding membership in the alliance)
Another thought on designs being copyrighted and unique:
e.g. What if the Worlds End alliance creates a beautiful WE shield medal and only hand it out to their top players. Now suppose some other alliance comes along and titles their alliance "Words End" (only a slight variation), and title the same medal design with the same name and mimic the WE alliance. It would be nice to see the system prevent duplicated medals. However, If someone were to mimic another alliance, you can bet the more powerful alliance would crush them. Now we have entered in-game, player-established rules and regulations. I foresee alliances adopting a "no copying" policy and enforcing it.
I know there is so much to think about here, and I hope the community offers more input in this. (^_^)
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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR
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SunStorm
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 15:38 |
dunnoob wrote:
. . . there are at least 1M combinations of design elements and their positions. They could enforce unique designs, the first alliance buying a specific design combination is its sole "owner" forever. In other words, if a design must be very expensive it should be at least unique. | Wonderful Thought Dunnoob! I agree. :)
Ander, great critique. I see what you mean about prestige being awarded to the alliance pool at the close of a tourny. This would add a huge boost. And although you disagree with a tax on prestige, keep in mind that members can opt-out of a taxing alliance and join an alliance that does not tax. Still, 1 prestige a week is minimal and three would probably be out of question unless the alliance really needed to press their members for a limited amount of time to purchase something specific.
Ander wrote:
Think of it the other way, a supercool medal made with 1000 prestige
that is given for exceptional service. There is some real 'prestige' to
it, than the 50 odd medals granted to everyone. | I suppose the biggest problem I have here is one alliance designing a 1k prestige medal to give to one special player - vs. - some richie rich player designing a 1000 prestige medal and giving it to all players for the same cost they could have given them a bronze shield... Perhaps the cost to issue the medal should be directly related to the cost of building it.
Additionally, with daily prestige and friends helping others (and the upcoming alliance pool in which the leadership can give out prestige to team-mates in need - I am not sure someone can argue that imbuing the medals with magical properties is a pay-to-win feature. I agree that it would be nice to have a selection of vanity items as well.
Keep adding thoughts to this thread - we are helping the Dev's with our thoughts and observations! (^_^) Edit: Added color
Edited by SunStorm - 17 Jun 2012 at 16:57
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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR
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Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 13:39 |
Pulling this away to a slightly different issue, which is relevant to the background of why medals exist: - Big-picture: prestige exists to pay salaries/contracts, to make ongoing development and upkeep of this game possible. Most people know this.
- Smaller picture: original artwork content costs a lot to do, especially with a game like this. e.g. each research item, unit type x race, etc, needs some content designing. Cerberus's salary needs to be covered.
- Smaller-still picture: For a project like 'medals', a lot of time and effort (which has a real-world cost) was spent on something that does not have a real impact on game mechanics; it's a 'lore/meta-game/feelgood' enhancement. As such, perhaps this project needs to pay for itself. Take a guess of how long this took, and work out the total cost a contracted rate (or whatever rate you can guess), and you'll realise that it's a stretch to make it viable if there is no payback for the devs. If this pays for itself, and then some more, then that's a success.
p.s. I'm not trying to work out devs' salary; we should respect that confidentiality.
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The Alchemist
New Poster
Joined: 28 Apr 2012
Location: Here
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 11:10 |
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How about a smiley face of whatever race you are... although the Orc face would probanly scare a lot of people...
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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 08:53 |
Rill wrote:
I wish my town had a pretty rainbow. I might be willing to spend 5 prestige a week on that. Not for newb protection. Just for a pretty rainbow. |
I'd have loved balloons for 5 P. Brings back such good memories..
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 08:51 |
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I wish my town had a pretty rainbow. I might be willing to spend 5 prestige a week on that. Not for newb protection. Just for a pretty rainbow.
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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 08:48 |
SunStorm wrote:
More importantly, I
love that these cannot simply be created and given out by the individual
players, but are given out by an alliance to those who the alliance
feels is worthy! Wonderful! EDIT: Perhaps alliances should have a system where three to five leading alliance members must approve each person receiving a medal. This would prevent the leadership from simply awarding themselves while the players get nothing
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I like it the current way. Some richie rich guy can start an alliance and award himself or the members of his alliance many costly medals. There should be something to rejoice if the son of an oil baron starts playing Illy no? 
SunStorm wrote:
Observations - Medals:
If someone in an alliance is getting an award
for the "BEST, MOST FANTASTIC, FABULOSO PLAYER" - and a medal is being
designed once at a cost of 300+ prestige and being issued for 50
prestige, this is too high a cost. The cost of individuality is TOO HIGH.
(~_~) Just because someone is your MVP and you wish to honor them, it
does not merit spending this much game money. Thats about £7.50 GBP or
close to $10.00 USD. WOAH! (0.0) For this reason, valuable players
will have to settle for generic medals handed out to multiple players at
a more affordable cost.
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I think the cost is okay (it's half prestige by 100 players in an alliance). If it were 3 prestige instead of 50, everyone in an alliance will be having multiple medals as soon as they are released. There will be no esteem in possessing a medal.
The current pricing is good, where most alliances will give badges carefully, making it a prestigious thing to have. Well, there is still the alliance of the son of the oil baron which gives out sparky medals to everyone, but then the alliance tag on the medal remains. 
SunStorm wrote:
Now imagine you want to award alliance
players a special "ASSET DURING TOURNAMENT X" medal - and you create a
generic medal for 50 prestige - but now you give it out to 25 members
who participated... Thats a whopping total of 1300 prestige!!!!! Thats
about £22.00 GBP or close to $35.00 USD. WOAH!!!!! (0.0) For this
reason, it is way too expensive to even reward the mediocre players.
(~_~)
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Think of it the other way, a supercool medal made with 1000 prestige that is given for exceptional service. There is some real 'prestige' to it, than the 50 odd medals granted to everyone.
We could also expect a prestige reward to the alliance prestige pool, when the alliance wins a tournament. They can use this to grant medals to the players or spend it in whichever ways they see fit.
SunStorm wrote:
Suggestions - Medals:
I believe many will not want to contribute to
the alliance for fear that they will never be selected for a medal.
Just think about those players in your alliance who don't get on but
once a week... you mail them and they reply 5 days later. They don't
show up in chat, etc.... (some times that is even me when real life
becomes hectic). What are the chances they will be given medals? How
much would they contribute to the alliance pool? (my guess is not a
lot) So I wonder if the alliances can set up an alliance tax on
prestige? Keep it between 1-3 per week (and if they have none, then
none is collected). When the tax collectors come to the city, they can
take with them 1 prestige for the alliance pool (if one is selected).
An alliance with 100 members could easily get 100 prestige a week (400 a
month) in addition to what key players may donate.
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What's the point in having a medal from an alliance headed by yourself or in giving out medals to members using the prestige collected from them?
I dont like the concept of a 'prestige tax'.
SunStorm wrote:
As for the medals -
Lower these prices please. I understand that this will be a feature to
bring in revenue for the Dev team, but I cannot see any reason to spend
such high amounts of money on something that does not enhance my gameplay in any way other than offering aesthetic value.
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A high price is fair, because it doesnt make a difference in gameplay between a player who can buy prestige and a player who cannot. It is a vanity item you pay for.
SunStorm wrote:
What if these medal's could be imbued with
special properties? What if during the creation process the medal was
enchanted with a "+3% speed boost to all units" or a "+3% food increase
in all towns" or there were quests that could only be done by players
with medals costing 200+ as well as others that could only be unlocked
with medals costing 600+... then you would REALLY have something going
for these medals... but as of right now, they offer very little
incentive. EDIT: This is what I would like to see more than anything else.
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It is better when people cannot buy an upperhand in the game with more prestige. (pink balloons around your town walls for 3 prestige, merry Christmas banners for 5, Christmas tree for 15)
Vanity items should not have gameplay advantages associated with it. Not everyone will be interested in vanity and such people should not be forced to buy vanity items at high prices for the gameplay advantages it bring.
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