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Topic ClosednCrow Ursor Directive

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scottfitz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 03:36
Fear not, Kumo, I am sure the conspiracy nuts will find some convoluted way of implicating you guys!
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 03:52
Originally posted by Hadus Hadus wrote:

What have these small players done to earn their land and your support of this ownership, and what has the unnamed alliance, who has put in far more time and effort into building their Illyriad presence at this point, done that they do NOT deserve it more that the new players?


Might makes right
Bonfyr Verboo
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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 04:00
Hadus raises an interesting question, but I think that it reflects a misunderstanding of our intention and our commitment.  Hadus seems to imply that we find those we are protecting to be particularly deserving and those we are opposing to be undeserving.  This is not the case.

What we seek to preserve is diversity itself -- that is, a healthy mix of newer and more established players.  We are not selecting some people and saying "we like you, you should stay" or "we don't like you, you should go."  (Although we reserve the right to act in our own direct self interest as well.)

What we are saying is, whether we like you or not, we want everyone to have a chance.  And if there are people who would artificially stunt the growth of our neighbors or seek to drive them away from our neighborhood, we will oppose that act.  Not because we like particular ones of them more than others -- but because we value the richness and diversity that is Illyriad.

In fact, those very values are part of what prevent us from acting more directly and more often against those whom we don't particularly like and who have shown themselves to be opposed to our values, ideas or our existence.  We think that diversity is a good thing -- yet we will not seek to annihilate those who believe that only they should exist in an area, although we may act to oppose that particular ambition in some areas in which we have a substantial presence.

We think that having a variety of players and a variety of playing styles in the areas in which we have cities is good for nCrow and is good for Illyriad.  We will act if necessary to preserve that diversity.

Knowing when to act and when not to act in carrying out this principle is a very difficult question, one that I struggle with, as do Harry and Le Roux and many other people.  Probably sometimes we will misjudge and overstep.  Perhaps other times we will not act when upon reflection it would be better that we had done so.

I honestly don't expect this particular philosophy to make us terribly popular in the long run.  It is complex and difficult to articulate.  We are "damned if we do and damned if we don't."  There will be people who fault us for failure to act and just as many who fault us when we do.

I can't promise we will always be right.  In fact, I can guarantee we will sometimes be wrong.  This is part of why our general predisposition is to refrain from acting rather than acting.  Hopefully when we get it wrong we will have wise friends to tell us we are being idiots -- and the humility to pay them heed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 04:41
Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:


.. irony 





Edited by Le Roux - 05 Feb 2013 at 04:42
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bansisdead View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 08:13
The GC mob is a fickle beast.

Edited by bansisdead - 05 Feb 2013 at 08:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 12:20

(Ossian looks up from his workbench, takes a swig from a nearby tankard and points his screwdriver at the Forum)

Make no mistake, EOM Harry and ncrow have won this conflict before it even starts and the other alliance could well find themselves suffering the same fate that they threatened newbes with.
 
Harry clearly has right on his side here. The tone and content of his posts deliberately send a clear message to an alliance , whom despite their best efforts to use propaganda to paint themselves otherwise, have been caught threatening new players. That is what the real issue is about here.
 
The message is "This Ends Now!"
 
 
In other conflicts, other alliances have been accused ( and to my mind clearly are guilty) of misusing the unwritten newbe protection rule for their own ends thereby undermining it's value. This has actually had the negative affect of playing into the hands of those who would prefer turning Illy into a "Travian" type game. 
 
That doesn't apply here though. It is clear that ncrow do not have designs on acquiring ownership of resources in Ursor as hinted by others in thread.  I believe them when they state that are acting on a point of principle.
 
To me this an example of how diplomacy should be used in mature way for the betterment of the game. The question of whether it ends peacefully or not will be determined by the actions of the other alliance .
 
Well played so far Harry
 
( Ossian returns to his workbench and resumes work on loosening the screws on a rusty old Lawn Lounger cackling evilly - Muhaahaa Wink)
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 14:15
Hello everyone
 
This is my first time posting in any forum but I feel that some facts about the situation might help clear some thing up.
 
1. this was a pvp fight
 
2. one side had 5 places with a rough pop of 22000 total, the other 5 places with roughly 23000.
 
So to me neither is a newbie nor is it a total mismatch
 
Very quickly one side asked for peace and a chance to move and the other side agreed and called off their attacks
 
Le Roux was not happy about the situation and has posted what she will do to prevent it in the future.
Her position is on record and quite clear.
 
As far as I know these facts are correct and if someone has misrepresented them to me this forum has my apologies in advance and I will correct them.
 
Now if people wish to continue debating this issue atleast it will be from a knowledgable postion
 
Thank-you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 16:28
I would definitely believe nCrow's story instead of the "facts" being spouted by the other side. The other side has a rather colorful history of painting the forums with propaganda and a history of threatening and attacking other players (of which I am one) for no valid reason. 

I do not believe Harry would spread lies or propaganda. On the other hand, those from the other side are, well, not very believable.

It is mightily clear that nCrow are in the right on this. Hurray for a free, diverse, and multi-alliance Ursor!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 17:26
To Hager's point,  very convenient to deflect a matter to a 1 on 1 when of course those members may be part of differing alliances ( say a 40k pop alliance versus a 1.2 million pop alliance).  I tend to take the view that an alliance is responsible for the action of its members, and to foist off responsibility " oh , we don't support what our people are doing, they can do whatever they want.. " does not hold water with me (especially when we know such actions are indeed sanctioned by leadership).  Very often the actions of one member, declared a rogue publicly, can be used to further the broader aims of the leadership. 
 
I do indeed hold an alliance responsible for the actions of their membership, its not a stretch, or a theory that is rare amongst leadership of alliances. Especially when we know that leadership had advance knowledge of such actions, and approved of it. (amazing what little tidbits of knowledge filter through Illy...)
 
I very clearly know Bonfyr's view of me, and Crowfed as well ... and that also factors into the overall equation.  Feel free to PVP "one on one" all you want,  just do realize one man's "one on one" can very well be perceived as advancing a very different agenda. . . 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 18:03
As a resident of the Ursor region I am paying particular interest to this thread and its consequences. 

The following is predicated on the previously stated assumption that "might is right"

Can I assume that the unnamed alliance in question that is trying to exert dominance over non-aligned players have an issue with a larger alliance in turn looking to take over Ursor and remove them from the equation or force them to relocate en masse to another region/s?

And given their standpoint within this thread, will the unnamed alliance make assurances that just as non-aligned players should not expect support from others, that the unnamed alliance will not go running for support from others?

As for the whole premise of "might is right" what utter nonsense. I can field an army ten times that of the average player but that does not give me the right to throw my weight around. Any fool can build an army with enough prestige. So perhaps try bringing something useful to the party, like support of new players, meaningful contributions to GC and to the game in general.

In recent months we have all seen the detrimental impact that war has on the game, how GC has become on occasion a thoroughly unpleasant place to be and that a significant number of newcomers have taken one look at the hostile environment that has been created and gone looking for other games. A further war would be unpleasant, however such bullying cannot and should not be tolerated by this community.
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