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Gragnog
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 18:52 |
Spheniscidae wrote:
Gragnog wrote:
Seems a lot of people have issues with the tiny little pitbulls. My perception is a bunch of players playing a war game and then getting complaints about them playing a war game. Perhaps some clear facts laid out here would help. As far as I recall NC only ever declared wars on equal sized or larger alliances (My memory may be a bit hazy due to working in the field so much lately). How this makes them bullies is above me. Their methods of diplomacy are also different to what others view as correct but this does not make them bad. I myself tend to resort to launch first and then talk. Now if someone has facts, and not opinions, just list them here and then everyone can make their own decisions.
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OP, colour coded for facts (which may or may not be accurate), opinions, and filler. I see more red than green... |
Read the last line a few times. I repeat, read the last line a few times.
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Kaggen is my human half
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Sir Bradly
Forum Warrior
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 228
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 14:45 |
I have no need to argue. I stated the facts. The community will interpret the facts for themselves and make their own decision.
I would rather talk through igm to those who want clarification, than get pulled into an Forum argument. Past experience tells me that accomplishes nothing.
SB
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Tamaeon
Wordsmith
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Location: Centrum
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 09:49 |
Gragnog wrote:
If you bothered to read the initial post in this thread you would actually realize that this thread is not here to argue a point but list facts. Go troll the other threads for opinions. Please folks, lets keep it to facts. |
Feel free to correct me, if I said anything that is either false or incorrect.
Also... I really don't want to argue semantics here, but if you open a thread with this...
Gragnog wrote:
"Seems a lot of people have issues with the tiny little pitbulls. My perception is..." |
you are obviously inviting an open discussion by expressing an opinion.
That said; I would love to have a factual discussion, and am eager to read your retort!
Edited by Tamaeon - 07 Nov 2013 at 11:32
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"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Spheniscidae
Wordsmith
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 117
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 09:34 |
Gragnog wrote:
Seems a lot of people have issues with the tiny little pitbulls. My perception is a bunch of players playing a war game and then getting complaints about them playing a war game. Perhaps some clear facts laid out here would help. As far as I recall NC only ever declared wars on equal sized or larger alliances (My memory may be a bit hazy due to working in the field so much lately). How this makes them bullies is above me. Their methods of diplomacy are also different to what others view as correct but this does not make them bad. I myself tend to resort to launch first and then talk. Now if someone has facts, and not opinions, just list them here and then everyone can make their own decisions.
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OP, colour coded for facts (which may or may not be accurate), opinions, and filler. I see more red than green...
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Gragnog
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 08:49 |
Tamaeon wrote:
Sir Bradly wrote:
Halcyon wrote:
"NC decalred on Bane for some made up reason." |
Hal, this is completely false. Bane was extremely aggressive claiming sov on adjacent tiles next to a trainee in The Night Squires. When said player was asked to remove the sov, he was rude and decided to claim more. Malek finally got involved and assured me the claims would be removed. The claims were level 1 and level 2 claims. 8 days later they were still there. NC declared war on Bane to protect NS from their aggression. |
Actually the BANE player had been in the area for months and had claimed sovereignty long before the NS player (Jack_Ketch) spawned there. In fact, the day NC declared on BANE... Jack_Ketch had a whopping 112 population! Which basically means he was literally weeks away from even researching sovereignty!! 
Your argument is further weakened by the fact that no established player in their right mind, would EVER cede sovereignty to a player who spawns next to his/her city. Typical procedure is to politely inform the player that he's better off moving elsewhere.
Malek was very nice in caving to your demand; and asking a member of his alliance to cede sovereignty to a noob. How many people out there would even entertain such a request?
The facts (and your words) speak for themselves. The aggressor in this case was NC.
Sir Bradly wrote:
Halcyon wrote:
NC continued their aggression against Celtic Knights. |
RE diplomats asked us for help. I have a mail from Ajeka to his alliance stating they were going to wipe out RE. RE was 240,000 vs xCKx which had over 2 million population. I have offered peace to xCKx numerous times. However they are not interested. Our goal was to stop hostilities against RE. It worked. NC has no ill will towards xCKx and would happily sign a peace deal. But, the other side appears to not be interested. |
Interesting that you would mention the mail Ajeka sent to his alliance. A message which you acquired either directly or indirectly, through shady means. This is especially ironic if you consider that the main reason xCKx declared on RE, was outrage over the fact that RE was spying on them!
If your goal really was end hostilities... why didn't you negotiate an end to the conflict, instead of declaring war on xCKx and involving your alliance in the war? I'm sure the threat of force alone, would have been enough to get xCKx to accept peace.
Once again, the facts speak for themselves.
Sir Bradly wrote:
Halcyon wrote:
It was clear that NC was never going to stop without someone stopping them. |
You are right, NC will not stop defending NS or other small alliances |
LMFAO!! 
Sir Bradly wrote:
If anyone in the community has questions, feel free to send me an igm.
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Why not continue to argue your case right here?
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If you bothered to read the initial post in this thread you would actually realize that this thread is not here to argue a point but list facts. Go troll the other threads for opinions. Please folks, lets keep it to facts.
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Kaggen is my human half
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Tamaeon
Wordsmith
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Location: Centrum
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 07:09 |
Sir Bradly wrote:
Halcyon wrote:
"NC decalred on Bane for some made up reason." |
Hal, this is completely false. Bane was extremely aggressive claiming sov on adjacent tiles next to a trainee in The Night Squires. When said player was asked to remove the sov, he was rude and decided to claim more. Malek finally got involved and assured me the claims would be removed. The claims were level 1 and level 2 claims. 8 days later they were still there. NC declared war on Bane to protect NS from their aggression. |
Actually the BANE player had been in the area for months and had claimed sovereignty long before the NS player (Jack_Ketch) spawned there. In fact, the day NC declared on BANE... Jack_Ketch had a whopping 112 population! Which basically means he was literally weeks away from even researching sovereignty!! 
Your argument is further weakened by the fact that no established player in their right mind, would EVER cede sovereignty to a player who spawns next to his/her city. Typical procedure is to politely inform the player that he's better off moving elsewhere.
Malek was very nice in caving to your demand; and asking a member of his alliance to cede sovereignty to a noob. How many people out there would even entertain such a request?
The facts (and your words) speak for themselves. The aggressor in this case was NC.
Sir Bradly wrote:
Halcyon wrote:
NC continued their aggression against Celtic Knights. |
RE diplomats asked us for help. I have a mail from Ajeka to his alliance stating they were going to wipe out RE. RE was 240,000 vs xCKx which had over 2 million population. I have offered peace to xCKx numerous times. However they are not interested. Our goal was to stop hostilities against RE. It worked. NC has no ill will towards xCKx and would happily sign a peace deal. But, the other side appears to not be interested. |
Interesting that you would mention the mail Ajeka sent to his alliance. A message which you acquired either directly or indirectly, through shady means. This is especially ironic if you consider that the main reason xCKx declared on RE, was outrage over the fact that RE was spying on them!
If your goal really was end hostilities... why didn't you negotiate an end to the conflict, instead of declaring war on xCKx and involving your alliance in the war? I'm sure the threat of force alone, would have been enough to get xCKx to accept peace.
Once again, the facts speak for themselves.
Sir Bradly wrote:
Halcyon wrote:
It was clear that NC was never going to stop without someone stopping them. |
You are right, NC will not stop defending NS or other small alliances |
LMFAO!! 
Sir Bradly wrote:
If anyone in the community has questions, feel free to send me an igm.
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Why not continue to argue your case right here?
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"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 06:18 |
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That's a very fair point, Vanerin...
The really huge point is that Consone had a combined population that was server controlling and absolutely massive (larger than the Crowalition or the H? Coalition) and NC has a tiny population in relation...
So... it's kind of like the difference between watching your 2 year old clear their play table of blocks and a megalition potentially smash hundreds of cities... (bad analogy, I know, but I have a 2 year old, so I see the violence of the blocks regularly!)
But I would highly recommend you get to know them more, as they are really nice, good folks!
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Vanerin
Forum Warrior
Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 418
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 04:29 |
Thank you for the post Kumo. I think I understand a little better now. Though there is still in my mind the contradiction of "Consone not policing itself well enough" and your confederation being excluded from that principle.
I would encourage everyone to get to know Sir Bradly and the folks in NC... Not only do they have a very strong sense of honor, they are also really nice people! |
While I have no doubt that the people in NC are nice, the majority of my experience with the characters that they play has been verbal hostility and diplomatic coldness.*  Though I would be glad to be proven wrong here.
~Vanerin
*To be fair, Sir Bradly does at times share helpful info in gc.
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 02:42 |
Halcyon wrote:
H? could have let that war play out between the two warring alliances, as they were adamant NC's wars play out without intervention. they chose to declare on EE.
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So firstly, after Hath's famous forum post was made public you're really trying to claim that the EE war dec was about only two warring alliances? Hahahaha - nice try. Secondly, as discussed elsewhere, EE reneged on a peace agreement and declared despite there being no new issues between their alliances since that peace agreement was "signed". "We have a cast of thousands behind us and we're going to get some revenge" This is the bullying behavior you are defending and yet you cannot see how it's as bad if not worse than that of which you accuse NC (wrongly as we've seen in the last couple of pages). Seems you have forgotten all your supposed high morals and ideals.
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Daefis
Wordsmith
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 128
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Posted: 07 Nov 2013 at 02:05 |
Kumomoto wrote:
Daefis wrote:
Kumo This is a personal response and has nothing to do with VIC's neutral stance. Claiming NC's a 'small alliance' is simply odd as it's clearly a military vehicle for several alliances to wage wars whilst not actually having to declare themselves..... I'd understand your hands off approach if this wasn't so clearly understood by so many now. Saying things like 'small' and only '19 members' would be fair if it was the same 19 members? not several times that number who move in and out dependent on troop levels.... Don't get me wrong NC have proven themselves to be incredibly good at war and they should be as it appears to be their sole function in the game. I think, but I genuinely don't know having had no contact with any of the alliances currently opposing H? at the moment that the feeling is that NC are sanctioned and defended by H? and hence leaves truly smaller alliances open to attack with little chance of ever being able to defend themselves. These as I say are just my thoughts and observations. |
Daefis-- I appreciate your response, because I think a lot of people in the game share your perception. What I can definitively tell you is that NC has never ever initiated a war on behalf of H?. In fact, in the Bane war, when both Bane and NC accepted members from other alliances to bolster their war effort, absolutely no H? members joined them to fight. We had no interest in the Bane war. We actually had no interest in any of their wars. They were their wars. We, quite frankly, to be honest, would have rather not had to deal with the diplo blowback that occurred with them fighting others, but we respect their sovereignty and respect their choices. Most importantly, ask yourself if you don't believe me, how could H? have possibly benefited from them fighting these wars? There really isn't a single scenario where it helps H? as an alliance. But we're not going to judge their choices. What we will do is not interfere with them and we don't think that there should be a "global police" who stomp on them because they enjoy the war aspects of the game by landing on them with huge alliances for having wars with other small alliances (which, in every case historically are considerably larger than they are). I believe that the game should be open to all sorts of game play by small alliances. And, if you look at history, the only wars we ever get involved in are with huge alliances.
So this concept of NC being the vanguard for H? attacks couldn't be farther from the truth. I wanted to hire Bane in the next tourney!!! I personally (this was never discussed or approved by the H? Directors) wanted to outbid Ditto this time to do so! Why would we want them to be attacked?
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Kumo I never suggested that NC act as a vanguard of H? just that they seem to be supported by them implicitly.
Edited by Daefis - 07 Nov 2013 at 02:06
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