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Topic ClosedNC crusade vs. STEEL

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Myr View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 18:50
Originally posted by Taron Taron wrote:

 As I see there is no Illyriad wide law (like worldwide but Illy ways) about war. There is No UN in Illyriad, no branch of justice, there is nothing. Yet during the Aesir vs TLR war (not a crusade, there was no religion or defense/advancement of an idea behind it, unless you count wanting A person to be punished) had been criticized, falsified and threaten to be destroyed because we did not announce why we went to war to the ENTIRE world of Illyriad so sense I was not informed then this forum had to be made.

 
 
Just to clarify, in Aesir vs. TLR I personally chose to join in mainly because a member of Aesir sent a letter to members of TLR informing them that if they stayed in the alliance they would be wiped out along with the alliance. Later, after I became involved, Aesir claimed that the person who sent that statement worked on their own, but by the time they made that clarification it didn't seem genuine, just a reaction to public outcry. I have never before gotten militarily involved in a TLR conflict and they have had quite a few, but that statement threatening to wipe out an entire alliance certainly got my attention.
 
 
 
Had it been an alliance other than TLR my reaction would have been exactly the same.
 
Edited to put in spaces, I hoped it worked.


Edited by Myr - 12 Sep 2012 at 19:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 17:41

(EOM) Harry I understand exactly what you are saying which is why in the previous forum i thought sense the community stated in assorts that Aesir somehow became a police of Illyriad, and the post I made stating that if an aggressive action is done without MY knowledge that they therefore have to be criticized, falsified and threaten to be destroyed. Sense their actions were not told to ME, I am doing what I said. There are talkers and doers in the world RL and Illyriad. I do what I say, as everyone is seeing. Majority of Illyriad are just talkers, like when H? Took out the two alliances, all there was was talk, did anyone do anything? Let me see..... They Talked.... I have nothing against H?, they did what they want and they got what they wanted. I respect them because they made a choice and went with it. Power to them.

 As I see there is no Illyriad wide law (like worldwide but Illy ways) about war. There is No UN in Illyriad, no branch of justice, there is nothing. Yet during the Aesir vs TLR war (not a crusade, there was no religion or defense/advancement of an idea behind it, unless you count wanting A person to be punished) had been criticized, falsified and threaten to be destroyed because we did not announce why we went to war to the ENTIRE world of Illyriad so sense I was not informed then this forum had to be made.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 17:41

Abstractdream, When TLR changed their alliance page saying that they have “Struck fear into the hearts of her enemies.” The spy that infiltrated Aesir and got the wide message to Aesir members must not be able to read, for we decided to continue our fight until we were wiped off the map (As G0dsDestroyer stated earlier in a different post…..). So we really didn’t fear TLR in that war, we knew we could die when they called for friends, yet we stood our ground. Saying they ‘struck’ fear in us is kind of insulting if you consider it a draw anyways. That’s like saying TLR Stood its ground when every alliance that joined backed out, leaving TLR alone, I was suddenly getting a message about peace….

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(EOM) Harry View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 17:25
I know Gods it was just an example/idea. I just feel that we need some more outlines rather than "Hey, you're not allowed to help player x thats mean on alliance y"

And you've expressed my feelings of hypocrisy and swaying agendas in your earlier quote reference :D
Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 17:18
Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:


... perhaps bringing your friends in from the beginning things would have ended better for you...

Uh..yeah, of course it would, and we didn't want to gang up on you, and kill you all, which has been said by me already no need to say this other than to remind you. Seems this comment is telling me that you would want a bigger alliance to gang up with a bunch of larger ones to kill a small one, to be smart. 

lolololololololol

Originally posted by (EOM) Harry (EOM) Harry wrote:

We cannot just have a common law ruling on each individual case and point. In my mind there needs to be clear rules of combat and justifications for war (maybe even set in statutes) so that not only do alliances know how the community will act (even though opinions may disagree it may not overwhelmingly stop the war) whilst also allowing an alliance/alliances to check the "war constitution" to digress whether they are in the right to declare war/support a player/alliance and to what extent. 
Come now Harry, war is messy and rules are not binding in war, anything can happen and will happen, no matter what people think.
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(EOM) Harry View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 16:30
Right guys, i'm going to say something really controversial here and it most likely will flag up a lot of hate toward nCrow. Lets just keep the hate (if any) directed at me and not the alliance.

I personally (amongst others) would love to break the sieges inbound on GIM, he is a great friend of mine here and a former member, nCrow also have a "no siege in our backyard" policy where those sieges we deem unnecessary and arbitrary, we break. (Point of reference: any breaking of sieges by nCrow as a sole act will never be a declaration of war!) 

Unfortunately, it has come to the point in illyriad where any action as such by nCrow (mostly due to our size and the crow confederacy) we will be deemed as aggressive and "warmongering" and will promptly be scolded by the community for some reason or another. This leaves me frustrated as i have to watch as GIM is attacked by NC and will thus suffer damage at the hands of something which i believe to be unjust. 

Please don't excuse this as words and cowardice. I as well as much of nCrow are just fed up with trying to help out friends or give support to an alliance and then time and time again battered down by words and falsities. If i'm honest guys we really have to get a grip of this. 

We cannot just have a common law ruling on each individual case and point. In my mind there needs to be clear rules of combat and justifications for war (maybe even set in statutes) so that not only do alliances know how the community will act (even though opinions may disagree it may not overwhelmingly stop the war) whilst also allowing an alliance/alliances to check the "war constitution" to digress whether they are in the right to declare war/support a player/alliance and to what extent. 

Thanks guys!
Harry
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Edited by (EOM) Harry - 12 Sep 2012 at 16:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 05:12
Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

TLR got help because they had friends willing to stick their necks out for them against a numerically superior alliance.  STEEL it seems does not.  Someone should get cotters in here because there are a lot of sour grapes in that OP. 

Kind of ironic given the 400 confederations they have...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 04:29

Originally posted by Taron Taron wrote:

I know almost absolutely NOTHING about this situation but I'm going to throw my two sense in there and let ya all know what I guess should be done.

 

According to what I know NC has been sending diplo attacks against STEEL. First problem is that I WAS NOT informed so therefor NC has to be destroyed, according to the Aesir crusade vs. TLR forum. According to that forum, if someone is to declare an act of war (attacks, diplos, ext.), whom ever declared it is supposed to be destroyed. The reason is because according to the Illyriad community any hostile actions mean the complete ANNIHILATION of the alliance being attacked in any ways.

 

Even if later there is an explanation to the reason behind the hostile actions, the community NOT involved still get to create a reason (which being part of the community I believe that NC is trying to annihilate STEEL) just like in the Aesir crusade vs. TLR. So according to Illyriad LAW NC should be annihilated or everyone should come to reason sense they have declared such actions FOR NO REASON except the ones I'm making up cause I can, that is if I am making them up but HEY! We should listen to a guy who knows nothing about what’s going on! I thought if that works in the Aesir crusade vs TLR forum, why not try it again with you know... No support at all but using slander, misleading information, completely bias and completely spammed with nonsense. Because well… Nice word Taron….. poo, that’s how Illyriad politics work! In the Aeisr crusade vs TLR (which TLR thought they won for some odd reasons unknown) that’s all that happened so have at it Illyriad! Someone who knows nothing fueling a pointless fire that no one should be involved in but the people who are involved.



TLR is an alliance. As an alliance, we do not "think" we won the "crusade" vs. us. Maybe some individuals, within or without the alliance made some statement or other but that is not the "official view."

Here is what I think, not official but pretty darn close: TLR was insulted and harangued by the leader of TRO in GC for all to see. He then proceeded to declare war and send attacks. We responded, defended and then we went on the offence. TRO asked for terms. The next thing I know, Aesir is declaring and attacking. Within a short time our allies stood up for us and with that the attacks ended.

The first series of events was a clear win. The second set of events was at best a draw.

Taron, you are clearly bitter about the reaction you got from the community in your endeavor. I guess that is understandable but I don't see it as the community's failure. I would hazard to guess that if you had played your hand differently, perhaps bringing your friends in from the beginning things would have ended better for you. Acting unilaterally rarely ends well, in Illy and in RL.

Most of the community have no warm feelings for TLR but turned on you anyway. I bet you never saw that coming. Honestly, neither did I.

Edited by abstractdream - 12 Sep 2012 at 04:32
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Gemley View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 03:43
I just hope no new players read the threads concerning STEEL vs NC and think this immature behavior is acceptable.
�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 03:34
This is fun. Why would anyone interfere?

Edited by Kumomoto - 12 Sep 2012 at 03:58
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