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Aurordan View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Military Unit stats questions
    Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 06:59
Originally posted by Olek Olek wrote:

Chop off the end of the pikes with big swords? lol, I know this is a fantasy game, but really, come on.

...
That wasn't something I made up, it was a weapon that historically existed.  Thanks for that definition I guess. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 04:04
Chop off the end of the pikes with big swords? lol, I know this is a fantasy game, but really, come on.
 
A bit of reading if your interested. (C&P)
 
 

Description of Pike
The weapons used during the Middle Ages include the Pike. The description of the Pike which provides basic facts and information about the weapon is as follows:

  • Pike - This weapon consisted of a sharp spike blade mounted on a wooden shaft, or pole - referred to as a pikestaff

  • This weapon had a wooden shaft, or staff, between 10 and 14 feet (3 and 4 meters) long, mounted with a steel head resembling a spear

  • Used as a versatile weapon against knights on horseback. The weapon was constantly developed and refined to include metal rims over the shaft making it even more effective against cavalry starting with knights on horseback . The pole, or staff, increased in length to become more effective fighting weapon

  • The weapon was used as a means to combat enemies on horseback. The spear end could apply significant injury to a knight in armor, or a knights horse. Horse armor was developed to counteract such injuries but the sheer force applied from a long pole, or pike, was extremely effective against horses. The Medieval horse, called a Destrier was the favored horses of knights in the Middle Ages

  • Pikemen were also armed with a dagger and a sword to enable them to battle enemies who had been unhorsed. The pike was far too unwieldy to use in close combat

  • Type or group of weapons - Polearm - A group of pole-mounted weapons. Were all variations of poles measuring between 4 and 14 feet long with different 'heads' - spikes, hammers, spears, axe etc

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 17:16
In real life cavalry actually will not charge through a solid wall of people unless that wall breaks in fear before the charge.  Trouble is, only the most experienced and courageous soldiers will hold steady to the last moment when horses pull up short.

Note this only applies to horses, not necessarily all cavalry-classed units (like elephants or Orcs mounted on wolves).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 08:19
Originally posted by Olek Olek wrote:

 
Crossbow armed peasants could kill a knight who had trained all his life, which is why they were outlawed in many nations during the medieval period.

Including apparently Illyriad, because only shady races like dwarves use them.  Ironically the superior longbows are a dime a dozen apparently.  

Originally posted by Olek Olek wrote:

Don't make the mistake of thinking knights were the princess saving heroes of the age, they were the rich and Noble, usually the one's who would benefit from the wars.

Cause they were good at it.

Originally posted by Olek Olek wrote:

And don't write off the Spear or pike units of the period, the Swiss pikemen, the German Landsknechts, the Scotts, these are trained and drilled Pikemen, not spear armed rabble.
 
 
Well in game it's up to your commander to determine just how well trained and drill your pikemen are.  But there are measures you can take that even the best pikemen will be susceptible to (like using a giant sword to take the end off their pikes).  Though now I believe we are drifting into an era later than this game is meant to recreate.  It seems likely that during this time most of your soldiers are not going to be professionals. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 07:01
Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

Another thing to remember is that you're sending 1000 heavily armored men who have been trained for battle from a very young age and spend all their time fighting or preparing to fight against 1000 guys who are pretty decent with a polearm.  They don't need to be mounted to be more than twice as effective.   
 
Crossbow armed peasants could kill a knight who had trained all his life, which is why they were outlawed in many nations during the medieval period.
Don't make the mistake of thinking knights were the princess saving heroes of the age, they were the rich and Noble, usually the one's who would benefit from the wars.
And don't write off the Spear or pike units of the period, the Swiss pikemen, the German Landsknechts, the Scotts, these are trained and drilled Pikemen, not spear armed rabble.
 
And you are right Aurordan, many knights did end up fighting on foot, as they would be more effective against the Pike/spear than mounted, but then all they had to worry about were the longbows and crossbows.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 06:43
Not a chance, you picture this as if your controlling the Cavalry while the spear units just stand there facing north, never heard of a Circular schiltrons? or a Rectilinear schiltrons, these pikemen where well drilled to manoever on the battlefield, they were all but immune to Cavalry, there is also a great difference between a spear unit and a Pike unit, and momentum will not help trying to charge through 5-6 ranks of layered pike points.
Terrain gives an advantage to a commander who knows how to use it, so it is not the terrain, but the ability of the commander to deploy his forces effectively in various types of terrain. 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 06:10
Another thing to remember is that you're sending 1000 heavily armored men who have been trained for battle from a very young age and spend all their time fighting or preparing to fight against 1000 guys who are pretty decent with a polearm.  They don't need to be mounted to be more than twice as effective.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 06:01
Olek: the very idea of cavalry is to attack on plains, where flanking is a VERY viable strategy. Also, spear units tend to be unable to find strategic areas(hills) on plains. Sending cavalry charging up a hill to attack a well prepared division of pikemen IS suicide, sending the cavalry to attack suddenly on the flank of the same pikes on plains isn't. Terrain is the defining factor. Also, we have to remember that even when the spearmen are well situated, cavalry simply inflict damage through momentum.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 05:23
If I understand this correctly, if 1000 of my knights attack 1000 of my pikemen, we are looking at;
 
65000 attack for the knights Vs 29000 defense for the pikemen, open ground, both nub commanders.
 
If this is the way it's calculated, then somebody needs to do a bit of reading, as sending Cav into pikemen is suicidal, I don't want to hear any stories about the Cavalry "Could" ride around to the flank, as "could" is every single engagement by this method.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 04:38
Keep in mind also that T2 units often provide better stats per unit of production time.  Even with all other things being equal or slightly worse, it can be an important strategic factor.
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