Meta Discussion

twilights wrote: yes its a game, the forum is part of it. no the game is not that important...too bad u dont play it like that cause it will always bother you or you will make it more than a game...seems you already have????? winks...gosh i hate to play monopoly with you.....

The forum is NOT part of the game.  If it were you would be required to do SOMETHING in the forum, and since you are not, it's completely separate.  The game can be played without the forum, the forum is not integrated into the game other than a call to it, and, technically, it's probably in a different part of the hard drive and may be even on a different server.  In fact, if I come to the forum as my alt, I sign in as my main.   I even wondering if you left the game you couldn't continue in the forum.

Underneath this whole discussion is the question of boundaries.  What are the boundaries for behavior between the game and the forum?  Are there any?  If everything devolves into force (which many seem to think the appropriate venue for all questions) then you may be right.  But since Illy is a sandbox it would be nice if some of us could "play" the forums based upon our powers of persuasion (or at least argument) rather than devolving into the force of armies (imaginary to be sure). 

In civil discussion it is generally accepted that personal attacks are illogical and show bad faith.  How much more so attacks on the hard work the player has put into his or her cities?  Thus, the question, as you seem to indicate is: "Is the forum an extension of the game?"  I've put some of my reasons for believing that it is not in the preceding paragraph.  I will now add some thoughts about why it should not be treated as an extension of the game even if it technically may be so.

First, the forum is a place of discussion.  Which do you prefer, an open and honest debate of ideas, or a constricted one in which challenging ideas are kept at a minimum out of fear of reprisal?

Second, the forum is a place of civility in discussion.  The general rules put up by the owners of the forum allow for debate but include a lot about uncivil behaviors and rules to combat such behaviors as "bullying."  They wouldn't have those rules if they did not wish there to be a bit of civility in the forums.

Third, and finally, which do you think should be the proper response to a non-threatening and appropriate post: the opponent to the post should just go out and drive the player from the game, or the opponent should put forth his or her reasons and reasoning about the question at hand?  Which do you think pushes the discussion toward discovery and understanding more?  If you attack my cities for what I say in the forums, would you consider that a better type of "debate" and more civil?  I think not.

Thus, ideally speaking, a place for open, good and civil discussion and debate enhances the game if you consider it a part of the game, and enhances the game even if it's not part of the game.  Whether technically part or not, the threat and intimidation implied if you make it too much a part of the game destroys the civility of the discussion and thus lessens the quality of the Illy experience for those who wish to discuss things in a open, good and civil manner.  I would humbly suggest that those who do not wish to discuss things in such a manner should start their own threads and title them "Discussion Brawl" so we know the level of intellectual honesty and civility to expect should we wander in.

AJ

abstractdream wrote: ...and like baseball, if you lose in Illy, you play again. I understand the interest in posting in a forum discussion but it gets to a point where redundant becomes the nicest thing to say about it; eventually one is posting just to read what one wrote. Maybe evolve the discussion a bit? Try this one: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/elgea-and-bl_topic6440.html#87292

"if you lose in Illy, you play again?"  Let's see now....you are painting a wonderful painting and after six months of work I run over it with a truck..."but hey, if you lose it you can just repaint it!" right?

It's always easy to tell a person to start over when it's not you who is doing the restarting.  Baseball has 9 innings (usually) and ends with one or the other teams is ahead.  Illy is an open ended thing that really doesn't end and so it is one ongoing game which, the longer you play, the more you have invested in time, energy, creativity --- and thus the more you stand to lose if you are driven out of the game.  And people have been driven out of the game.

So let's evolve the discussion by admitting what many seem to want to minimize...the harm of having people destroy what you've spent months and years building, even if it's "just a game."  A painting, after all, is "just a painting."  Nobody who is a builder wants their buildings, real or imaginary, needlessly destroyed.  And at the same time some of us want to have a free discussion without risking more than our intellectual pride.

I looked at the post and wasn't sure why it was relevant.  Perhaps I missed something.  I'll look again and let you know.

AJ

ajqtrz wrote: In the world of debate and discussion it has never been considered the "proof" of a point to reach over and slap your opponent silly.   I don't think it should be allowed here either. AJ

I think the important question here is: how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

...and like baseball, if you lose in Illy, you play again.