Mercenaries

Make each hub have a certain number of mercs.

DanSavin wrote: [EDITED] Hello my name is DanSavin and I'm from Paradox[Aggro]. tl;dr in the end if you are too lazy to read Today in GC people were talking about mercenaries and how it may or may not work. So here is my structure version for you to judge. Why developpers should care. 1. Easy to make. Mercenaries are just another type of units for hire (just like spearmen, bowmen, etc). They are also on 'Hire Units' list having their resource cost and 0 seconds training time. 2. Can be profitable. We got skins for cities, skins for players so why not skins for mercs (and potentially normal units)? Also due to the unit mechanic prestige can be used to augment mercs limit (later in limitations). 3. Interesting for new players. When we just started we were ovewhelmed by Illyriad (still overwhelmed here). But one thing that is very unavailable for new players is fighting. Yes you can hunt some (small) npc armies. When it comes to serious stuff or defending yourself, armies are too expensive to sustain (long term) and to build. 4. Interesting for old players. So you send your army from capital to hunt animals. Your neighbour saw that. Now his army hunts your city. Mercenaries can be effective when you need and urgent defending force. 5. Consistent with Illyriad. Mercenaries are a type of unit that is consistent with Illyriad universe and its vast and complicated mechanics. I think that they wont change the way we play but will enrich the game and make it more dynamic. Concept. 1. Unit. Mercenary is a short-term unit that is available to all races and comes in four categories: Spearmen, Bowmen, Infantry and Horsemen. It has an icon and works just like any other military unit under your control; you can add them to an army and you can disband them just as send them far far away to fight. It is a situational unit with low stats but high speed and zero training time. You can use it to protect a defenceless city, or to farm some animals around you. 2. Statistics. Since mercs are not professional soldiers and dont learn how to fight side by side with others theirstats are lower that normal. Thus their fighting capabilities (Attack) are lower than weakest T1 (first tier unit, ex.: dwarven yeoman) counterpart. They arent rich; their equipment is worn out and their defence is also lower than their weakest T1 counterpart. Their plundering abilities being the same, mercenaries wander alot in the land of Illyria thus their movement speed is slightly higher than their counterparts (technically fastest military units). However they are hired and thats a big plus of mercs. 2. Cost + Limitations. Mercs value their life thus they demand a high price for their swords. Hiring costs a heavy amount of gold. The duration of training however is zero seconds since you dont need to train these people. They also got their own equipment so you dont need to get armors or swords. Here lies one huge problem. Some people will say that 1000 gold is alot for one merc (those whostarted) others (like myself) will say that, citing: 'If a merc costs 1000 gold, i can hire army bigger than this server right now'. So should it be 1k or more?If its too expensive, new players wont be able to hire mercs. If its too cheap, normal army will become obsolete. So there should be limits and those limits do exist (note that limits may be combined in any way). Easiest method One idea is to augment the price by adding beer to it. A price of 1 or 2 beers plus 1k gold is morelogic and even more consistent with the universe (because people have to be drunk to be working with you!). It doesnt severely limit new players but limits older players from going wild. Need more limits? No problem! Raise the upkeep to crazy heights (that truly makes a short term merc unit - which is the most logic way to limit this unit). Surest method Another idea consists in giving limits to the amount of mercs you can have. For example: you cannot hire more mercs than the population of the city. It is harder to implement because mercenaries will require more coding than other military units. Contract method YOPO. You only pay once. Thats right, you pay one huge price once to hire mercs. Use them like you want. However when you pay you decide the contract length - it can be 1 day or it can even be a month! After, the units disappear. Cap Adding a cooldown after you get an army of mercs. No matter how big an army you get, after purchase in any city there is a global cooldown of X week(s)/month(s)/etc. 3. Requirements. Just like any other unit mercs will require some research. I suggest putting it in the 'Quest' tab. Mercenary reearch will require Tavern level 1-5 (even if you hire them in the barracks). Additional Ideas. 1. Mercenary armies Intead of hiring a unit, you have an option (in 'Armies' tab) to hire an army. This mercenary army cant be modified (though the option of commander is open for discussion) but otherwise has thelimitations of time/price/upkeep I proposed before. 2. Special units mercenaries. Previously I discussed military units but same can work just as well with non military units. Why not have scouts that are not very qualified but are instantly available to you? 3. Players' army for hire. Hard to implement, but some people suggested to give their armies for hire. May work just like trading in the market, but you have to choose armies tab. tl;dr: I suggest implementing an expensive, weak unit with zero training time. --------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT -  READ THIS PLEASE Many considered this idea bad and overpowered since they found it easy to make armies of mercs. As an engineer student i would love to throw some numbers :D Lets say the merc amount is limited by your population. You as a pro player decide to hire 30000 mercs and send them to fight. Lets see what happens. 1. If base price is 1k gold (without beer) then you have to pay 30 000 000 right away. Also include the upkeep: it can range from 10 to 50 gph (gold/hour), thus making the hourly cost range from 300 000 to 1 500 000 gold PER HOUR. 2. If you think that you will vanquish all your enemies YOU ARE WRONG. Mercenary force of 30k tropps WONT save your city from a 40k assault of horseman just because the merc unit is the weakest unit from all available to hire. However it can be useful to help main army or to do sneak attacks on defenceless cities. 3. Rich people will kill all of us.Nope nope and nope. They will most probably fight each other. That will add dynamic to the game as well as new tactical options (like enemy can see army coming to his city but he cant know its composition). 4. Also it provides a nice gold sink. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink IMPORTANT -  READ THIS PLEASE --------------------------------------------- Thanks for reading. [Edit 17/12/2015 - added cooldown in limitations] [Edit 16/12/2015 - Important section with numbers]

Was it not mentioned that troops might be a tradable commodity at some point by the devs?

I think mercenaries would best be tied to factions, rather than as purchasable from your own cities.

Pay rates and stock might be determined by the troop's quality, the amount of trade at that faction's hubs, how many active armies the faction has in the field, and your standing with said faction. Perhaps even seasons - hungry northmen willing to fight for a coin are easier to find in winter when supplies are scarce, while the more luxurious mercenary outfits would rather spend them tucked up somewhere warm with a nice glass of wine.

You would pay a lump sum for the troops, but might also have to pay for their (presumably high) upkeep while they journey from the faction hub to your city, where they join your standing army as commandable troops.

Geographical limits would also help mitigate the 'I instantly bought an enormous army and now have it in my city ready to go' problem. Even if you're a wealthy trader looking to hire a large mercenary army, you might need your traders to search far and wide to accommodate your needs, and take into account travel times as one might consider build times.

Certain hubs would offer almost no goods trading (as they currently do), but they might market mercenaries from several different factions, or belong to a warlike faction who consistently puts out high numbers of troops for purchase. Perhaps mercenaries themselves could be a commodity, with players making profits by selling them between hubs with low/high demand, or even to other players.

By tying the mercenary pool to some factors that are within player control like trade hub wealth, and whether to suppress faction numbers by actively attacking their armies, it might avoid the problems of having an endless supply of instantly available mercenaries to purchase.

I'd argue that this should go hand in hand with a revision of Faction Hubs being currently impregnable. Assassins should be able to target traders, thieves to steal resources, and obviously, more military actions should affect them.

Now, the trading of player units might operate by the same token with trade of units being tied to hubs, but I feel like player army trading would need to be subject to some stricter regulations to avoid potential abuses. Things like an army morale system, or reduction in troop effectiveness/increases in cost/upkeep for buyers, or maybe that one has to sell troops directly to the NPC factions who can then release them into the market as they see fit.

Perhaps player troops could be sold on loan, so weeks-long missions would be not only disastrously wasteful in terms of gold, but also infeasible as contracts end and your mercs now happily turn tail and walk home.

Like others who've outlined the problems with the OP's suggestion, I don't believe it would be fair to have sufficient means in game for alliances to overpower strategy with sheer weight of numbers & gold, which is why I think the player merc market need such restrictions. But if they really want to win one key battle while their merc army - cobbled together from hubs up and down Illyria over the course of a few weeks - burns a disproportionately huge hole in their coffers, more power to them.

It would be an exciting change with far-reaching - and maybe disastrous, if poorly implemented - consequences for the Illyrian wargame. Nothing says 'you're finished' more than an army of.. er.. these lot..?


Edited by Shûl-nak - 18 Dec 2015 at 01:21

Im considering rewriting the post having all the weak points you guys showed me.
For now tho im reading the comments and trying to make the idea more interesting and viable :)
So please if possible comment on things you dont like or like.
Thanks

I understand what a gold sink is.  That said, I don't see why Illy needs a gold sink.  I played during the great gold exploit, and tbh in some ways I think the game was more fun with more gold flowing around.  Note that I am NOT advocating exploits, just saying that I don't see a compelling reason to try to pull gold out of the economy; this has actually happened and I didn't notice a bunch of people talking about how much better the game was afterward when there was less gold.