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Malpherion View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Sep 2011
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Points: 41 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: MARKET - TRADERS
    Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 16:30
With the Introduction of the Market and Factions Traders are too expensive.
Why not remove the need for a barrel of wine for new traders. Get rid of it all together. I'm talking about keeping Trader 2+ the same cost as Trader 1.
1 Barrel of wine costs 3960 grapes to make and harvesting is tedious and time consuming.
Harvesting 100 grapes takes 17 hours which is far too long.
I'd fire my entire staff if they could only pick 100 grapes in 2 days (at 8 hours a day).
But at 17 hours per 100 grapes thats going to take 28 days to make 1 barrel of wine.
I can eat 100 grapes in 15 mins!!
Thats just ridiculous.
 
Surely the idea of this change/upgrade? is to encourage trading, not discourage it, and the only way I can see this being done is by removing the need for the wine. It is simply too expensive.
Maybe you could increase the gold cost of each additional trader if you are wanting to limit the number of traders players have, but take away the unduly expensive wine.
I have over 1 billion gold and cant buy a barrel of wine, even champagne isnt that expensive!!
 
New players could barely afford 1 trader and players with 8-10 towns are being severly limited by having only 1 trader because no one is going to be stupid enough to put traders in many markets when wine producing costs so much. No one will be able to afford it in any case, its just not feasable.
 
Also the visual range of markets in hubs is just silly.
It needs to be the same as the Worldwide market.
Why has this been done at all?
Its certainly not based on anything in Real Life.
Importation and Exportation of goods is worldwide.
Many countries would be stuffed if they could only sell to their neighbour.
 
As an example of this, I've had 80k stone on Tempus hub for 5 days and today someone, who decided to put a trader in there finally bought it. The stone would have normally gone within a few hours had I placed it on the Worldwide market.
 
Everyone should just stick to the normal market if they want to sell or buy something in the meantime, the trader costs for the hubs just aren't worth it.
Its a shame, cause there could be real potential if you made traders more affordable for everyone.
 
Malph
 
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Malpherion View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Sep 2011
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Points: 41 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 17:11
Talking in chat just now - Price varies from 1.26 million per barrel to 10 miilion per barrel.
In any case, a lot of players wont be able to afford that.
 
[16:00]<Malpherion> The system is more complex than it needed to be
[16:01]<NightFury> +1 Malph
[16:01]<TomBombadil> whoa
[16:01]<Malpherion> Do you have that price Mr TomBombadil
[16:01]<Malpherion> Ty Nightfury
[16:02]<TomBombadil> n x 1.26 Million per barrel
[16:04]<Sir Bradly> one barrel is worth about 10 million currently
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Raatalagk View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Dec 2011
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Points: 154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 17:25
I think it's too soon to assess this. The fact is, grapes were just recently introduced into circulation, so it makes sense that their value might be inflated. They are a novelty right now, and more importantly, demand is significantly higher than supply. While this is partly due to the high time cost of harvesting them, it's also a function of the fact that not enough time has passed for people to develop surplus stores.

Once that happens and the grape market reaches some kind of equilibrium, we can return to evaluate whether they should work the way they do. But at the moment, there's just not enough information to make that kind of judgement.
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Bonaparta View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 18:17
1.26M is really not a lot of money and the prices will fall. This is where smaller players can make their first million...

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Arakamis View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Points: 97 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 21:35
Originally posted by Malpherion Malpherion wrote:

Also the visual range of markets in hubs is just silly.
It needs to be the same as the Worldwide market.
Why has this been done at all?
Its certainly not based on anything in Real Life.
Importation and Exportation of goods is worldwide.
Many countries would be stuffed if they could only sell to their neighbour.

Well, that's true for today but illyriad setting is based on medieval fantasy theme, in which the only meaningful trade that can be done is with neighbours or lets say within a certain distance from a city.

I mostly agree with the other points though.
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Faenix View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Oct 2011
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Points: 283 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 22:34
Quote Harvesting 100 grapes takes 17 hours which is far too long.
.....
I can eat 100 grapes in 15 mins!!

A "grape" in the game is a bunch of grapes.  A bunch of grapes contains roughly 75 - 100 grapes.  So while you can eat 100 grapes in an hour, you might find it challenging to eat 7,500 - 10,000 grapes in an hour.  (Maybe Joey Chestnut could, perhaps we should organize something ala Coney Island).

And along the same line, it is ~3600 bunches of grapes to make a barrel of wine in real life (depending on the varietal, and the growing season).  Granted, as mentioned here before, in the absence of vineyards which produce grapes by the acre, nobody would be making barrels of wine, so this whole "realism" thing only goes so far.
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Torn Sky View Drop Down
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Points: 402 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 13:43
Since they were released I've harvested a little over 21000 grapes off 2 squares with one town. Grapes are not that hard to get really,its just they're new and everyone wants them now give it time. Instead of hoarding a grape square with 1-2 cotters get a small player nearby to collect em for you with 9-10 cotters.
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nitin2011 View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Sep 2011
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Points: 29 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 14:46
Building trader is not a problem as everyone assumes.
1st trader is free 
2nd cost 1 wine
3rd cost 1 wine - yes 1 wine for me as my 3rd trader is in queue :) 
4th cost 2 wine

so you need only 2 wine to get 3 traders and 4 to get 6 if you use alt (wine is not needed for upkeep, only gold is required)

I have been trading in Centrum for few days now and let me tell its going to be tough managing 6 traders actively  (at-least for me :) )

Once you have 6 traders who will buy grapes i wonder Ouch
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dunnoob View Drop Down
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Points: 800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 15:00
Originally posted by Torn Sky Torn Sky wrote:

I've harvested a little over 21000 grapes off 2 squares with one town.
Good, are you selling or interested to rent a brewery?  I expect falling prices, 10M per barrel is madness.
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JimJams View Drop Down
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Points: 496 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 15:31
I see many players saying grapes are easy to get, at hand, and abundant.

Is it just a sign on how badly the grapes are distributed over the map ?

I have still to find one in east tallimar...
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