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Rill

Postmaster General

Player Council - Geographer

Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 04:32

Whilst we might all have different preferences about what we enjoy reading on the forums, I don't see any reason that people shouldn't post whatever they see fit, as long as it's in accordance with the code of conduct. No one is making people read or respond to this thread.

Sisren

Forum Warrior

Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 446

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 04:33

Aurordan wrote:

Manannan wrote:

Kilotov V2.0 wrote:

those that fight monsters shall be careful to not turn into monsters themselves.

Wise words my old friend. Hopefully I won't turn into that I most despise and if I look like turning to the 'dark side' I would hope my friends would quickly drag me back to the light

Well, that's the funny thing about turning to the dark side, you're always certain you haven't.

As an aside, I hate when people use that quote or some variation thereof, it's never relevant.

Hey! What's wrong with DARK Question

Being in Dark is always relevant to me... /me chortles

“I am a forest, and a night of dark trees: but he who is not afraid of my darkness, will find banks full of roses under my cypresses.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Since we like to dredge up quotes, this one makes darkness not so bad :)

For this matter, I think Manannan is only showing he is truthful in waging his fight, and is only wondering if others are in want of it as well, seeing what we are seeing. As for his troops, they were likely there because of the lengthy time of the undeclared war ~NC~ seemed to be waging via diplomats. Y'all are asking where are STEELs friends, it looks like they are helping 'em out after all.

I am trying to figure out if this is amusing or repugnant at this point...

SunStorm

Postmaster

Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 07:08

Kilotov V2.0 wrote:

those that fight monsters shall be careful to not turn into monsters themselves.

Good quote - its actually been up on my player profile for some time now (one of my favorites). Here is another quote from my profile: "I am an average good Christian, when you don't push my Christianity too far." ~Wilkie Collins, The Moonstone~

I would agree that people can only be pushed too far, and I support Manannan for taking a stand for what he believes in. From what I can discern, he believes that an individual player should not be targeted by an entire alliance solely because the alliance has taken a dislike to the individual player. The word in Manannan's post was "eliminate." He will not stand to see Gim "eliminated" solely because he is disliked.

However, there are a few problems I am seeing here. It was brought up by Myr.

Myr wrote:

I am reading back on the forums and nowhere can I find a statement that says Gim will be removed from the game.

I too have gone back looking, and there is nothing regarding this.

In fact, what I found was an announcement 10 days ago stating that troops had been sent:

Faenix wrote:

geofrey wrote:

If possible, could someone with first hand experience answer the following questions. Please don't voice your opinion about what the answers should be, I am just asking for a status update.

What is the current military status of this conflict?

NC and STEEL in full on warfare?

Have any further declarations been made?

Any other alliances sent forces to intervene?

NC has declared war on STEEL.

No other alliances have made any declarations.

Military attacks are incoming to Gim.

Nothing further to report at this time.

As much as I try, I cannot always read everything in the forums or keep up with all the politics. I have a pretty good memory and can usually recall if I have read something, but perhaps this was missed by Manannan. Regardless, public notice was given that troops were on the way. Therefore I wholeheartedly agree with Faenix and Beecks:

Faenix wrote:

The great thing about the game is that you're allowed to stand up for what you believe is right. We believe that what we're doing is right and justified, and you obviously believe what you are doing is right and justified. And that's cool, but don't try and play the victim by claiming these troop losses had anything to do with your decision.

Beecks wrote:

I think it's certainly your prerogative to join the conflict if you feel strongly about the outcome . . . I see no moral problem with you entering the conflict because you feel the reasons given for the war were insufficient but your claims regarding your rights as a neutral third party confuse me.

Regardless of the opening post and the claim of neutrality during a time of war, Manannan has chosen to involve himself to ensure nobody is "eliminated." Perhaps NC could expound upon their intentions regarding their war with Gim. Obviously, and as Meagh pointed out, there is not a lack of aid:

Meagh wrote:

STEEL has 13 confederates. Surely if they are having problems with NC they'd call in their allies? Then it'd be 13 against 1...I'm not sure how you get bullying of the 13 out of that equation. - M.

However, was Manannan the only one reinforcing Gim? Is this perhaps where his frustration is coming from - that he has personally suffered much loss while few others are willing to back their own Confederations? Here again is another great example where I commend Consone for solidifying the Confederation and offering mutual defense during times of war. How many Confederations are actually backing Gim?

Ultimately, Manannan, I feel, is calling for Confederates to do more than offer lip service and actually back their allies. If this is accurate, then lets try to move forward rather than writing any further shameful posts telling players to go die. After all:

Faenix wrote:

I have to live with snuggling. Snugglers have to live with war. These are the sacrifices that we make to share a community.

Let both sides have their fun...and if someone is truly being eliminated then we can begin rallying the mob.

"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

Llyorn Of Jaensch View Drop Down

Postmaster

Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 924

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 08:39

Rill wrote:

I will stand with Mana.

Jane DarkMagic wrote:

I'll join you Mannanan.

Are Rill and JDM actually supporting Mananan or is it acceptable to stand on principle on the sidelines only?

For if you do adhere to your words, then stopping at that makes you both little better than the champagne socialists whom bereave the plight of the poor whilst sleeping in french linen. Do you believe such, or was this more to ease your conscience in order for a good nights sleep?

If its the latter then know your future opinions will be held with little weight.

"ouch...best of luck."
HonoredMule

bansisdead View Drop Down

Postmaster

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Location: UK
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Points: 609

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 09:14

The community doesn't like alleged bullies ganging up on weaker players, so what does it do gangs up on weaker players, nice one. I love the hypocrisy of it all.

Babbens

Wordsmith

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 165

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 10:34

It can be hypocritical, it has been in some instances, but most of the time it is a necessity:
how else would you bring the bully(ies) down?

bansisdead View Drop Down

Postmaster

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Location: UK
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Points: 609

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 11:08

This all hinges on the use of the term bully. The term bully implies a stronger party coercing or intimidating an weaker group, usually to force them to submit to their will. NC are the weaker party. Stating you don't like someone then attacking them is not bullying, especially when its the weaker party doing the attacking, imho.

Sisren

Forum Warrior

Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 446

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 11:17

Hi Banisdead,

in which way was it that the weaker player is attacking? Last I checked the populations of the attackers from ~NC~ is a little higher than the population of Gim... Maybe it's something with Orc Maths?

/shrugs

And it is called bullying when a one population attempts to goad another population into doing something they do not wish to do via either violence, or the threat of violence. Definition [expanded]. :)

bansisdead View Drop Down

Postmaster

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
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Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 11:24

Hello Sisren, first off lets not start throwing around personal insults, my maths is fine. I was basing my evidence on the illyriad alliance list which places one at 38 and the other 45.

Llyorn Of Jaensch View Drop Down

Postmaster

Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 924

Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 11:33

Bullying is simply this folks:

Using superior force on a weaker body, because you can.

A discrepancy in conflict is not bullying. The above is so. Im not judging this situation, merely clarifying terms used in this discussion.

"ouch...best of luck."
HonoredMule

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