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Topic ClosedLet the Orcs be Orcs
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Prometheuz View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 Nov 2011
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Points: 230 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 10:53
This is an old arguement that has been revisited  a number of times. I think the problem stems from the sandbox concept. Personally I would prefer it if roleplay had a stronger role in Elegea/Illyriad. I would also prefer it if the game had a W1N objectives centred around the 4 races in an Evil v Good contest.

What worries me is that the sandbox concept has aloud the game to drift towards a social networking culture whose main activity is to build cities and dispense knowledge of the mechancis to newbies. Thats ok as far as it goes but it wastes so much of the mechanical and narrational features.

To have a driving purpose or victory condition in the game would reduce a lot of the contention that occurs on the forum or at least keep it contained within the  parameters of the game.


ps I might start up a "Let 'oomiez be 'oomiez thread LOL
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Southern Dwarf View Drop Down
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Points: 281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 10:47
I see you are unable to get other positions than your own, RB. And your stereotypes are boring since there are many orc players who engage in trade, peaceful settlement and diplomacy all over illy.

Thus your ranting will fail here.
Also known as Afaslizo ingame.
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Ridgeback View Drop Down
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Points: 49 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 10:34
Ok, Im gonna go back on the words of my last post (because Im an Orc) in order to make a point. You should be a politician Rill, because you allude to different viewpoints, then quote the one that allows you to argue when you get caught at it. All of your suggesting that 'this game is about' or 'maybe you should find a different game' suggets that you have a clearly defined opinion about what types of players are 'allowed' in your 'sandbox', which underlies your real opinion that this is your sandbox only. That is the problem with the people who have played the game too long and have an unjustified sense of propriety over the culture of it. I assure you there is no 'running' or 'pouting' going on, but the attempted insult isnt lost on me. I wont sink to the level of trying to volley subtle insults with you. You look good down there. I have decided that struggle suits me.
By the way, you also misquoted yourself in the midst of your politicing. Your original post implied embracing or struggling again the complexities of Illyriad. In your latest post you twisted your own quote to 'struggling against prevailing opinion'.
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Points: 258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 10:29
May I point out that Ridgeback have very limited view how orcs should be.  

You have vision and interest in playing this aggressive orc simulator= simming and you wish to developers make it possible for you and stop others playing their simming games by adding limitations? 

Now if you claim enough power and allies who share your vision you can do just that. But with hard coded limitations all players visions and choices would be limited.  
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Points: 89 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 10:26
My two cents, as an Orc player:

Orcs aren't always about fighting, and war and pillaging. 
That MAY be an Orc, and tends to be the most stereotypical type. 

I won't repeat what other have said - namely that you CAN attack any other player; there will be consequences, large and small - it's up to you to mitigate your own risk. This is politics and diplomacy - you get to choose your opponents, not your opponents' allies. So choose carefully.

Now, back to Orcs. There's the pillaging kind, the mindless warriors. 

But Orcs can be cunning, they can be cruel - they can be treacherous, and they can be opportunistic. Perhaps being a warrior player means not broadcasting your intentions as loudly, perhaps it means actually roleplaying an interaction with another player so that you get the experience. Being in Illyriad definitely means developing multiple styles of play.

I would say that attacks are not 'frowned' on in general. Only blind attacks, on unwilling AND unequal counterparts, are. You want the freedom to play the game your way; but your desire doesn't trump the desire of other players to play in peace, in their way.

I  have never witnessed the Illyriad community stopping two mutually willing players who chose to fight each other. 

I would bet that if you posted a request for a sparring partner here on the boards, you'd find one quickly.

I don't feel my player options are limited simply because I can't pick a fight with my neighbors on a whim. It challenges me, yes, but  as I've started to work out 
here (and apologies for blowing my own horn): 

http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/lashka_topic2756.html

there can be more to being an Orc than just fighting...

Again, my two cents.
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 10:19
I want to add that I have only exchanged a couple of e-mails with Ridgeback in the game, on this topic.  I have no idea how he has or hasn't managed his relationships with his Orc brethren and therefore have no opinion on how he has done so.

I do respect Ridgeback for voicing an opinion, although I don't agree that changes need to be hard-coded into the game to reflect his preferences.


Edited by Rill - 16 Dec 2011 at 10:22
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 10:16
You completely ignored the part where I said "you can either choose to embrace the, to struggle against them ..."

If you want to struggle with the prevailing opinion, you are free to do so.  In other posts I encouraged you to pursue that goal.  Don't run off and pout because I don't think game mechanics should be changed to suit your specifications.  Stay and play.  Maybe people will agree with you and it will be a tremendous success.

Or choose another game if you decide that such a struggle doesn't suit you.

It's your sandbox too.
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Points: 49 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 10:10
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

This is a game where relationships matter, and managing relationships matter.  If you don't want to play a game where managing the complexity of relationships and alliances is a requirement for pursuing an aggressive action, then this might not be the right game for you.  I don't make any apologies for the complexities of Illyriad; I embrace them.  They may not be to your taste -- and that's just fine.  You can either choose to embrace them, to struggle against them, or to move on.  I don't believe it's necessary to change the game mechanics to accommodate your preference.


Ahhh, there it is...If you want to be an Orc, this isnt the game for you. Thank you Rill, you have defined the prejudice of the community at large succinctly. I respect your right to 'manage your relationships'. I object to your feeling that that if I 'manage' mine otherwise, that this is not the game for me. I feel that I have 'managed' my relationship among my Orc brethren just fine, thank you. You made my point for me, I will no longer refer to this post or reply herein. The devs can have it at this point.
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 09:59
Originally posted by Southern Dwarf Southern Dwarf wrote:

And if that player does not wish to be attacked?

Perhaps you should get away from orc stereotypes.

+2

The thing about a sandbox is that not everyone has the same goals or wants the same thing.  So the key is to figure out who might also enjoy this gaming style.  Then interact with them.  Because that way it's more fun for everyone.

And give some credit for bloodthirstiness to us hoomans as well!
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Points: 281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 09:54
And if that player does not wish to be attacked?

Perhaps you should get away from orc stereotypes.
Also known as Afaslizo ingame.
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