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Ryuuku
Greenhorn
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 72
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Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 04:51 |
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In other words, keep the std deviation large on small attacks and narrow it to nearly the average for large, costly attacks. I agree, seems more fair that way, especially if the dice roll is just once per attack. Perhaps, a dice roll/each 10 beasts in the group or each 10 attackers so that the chances of a large attack yielding nothing would diminish to nearly zero while still providing surprises for those only able to attack a small group. This gives more motivation to the large players who are playing for tournament wins, and not merely commander xp, more motivation to clear out the Legions so that the smaller players can get more playable spawns.
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 03:32 |
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To put what SC said into, well, shorter terms: the problem is with standard deviation. The likelihood of an attack bearing average fruits (as opposed to dramatically above or below average) are really quite poor.
Every attack is essentially a gamble. Knowing that the average should be reasonably favorable, however, means that the safe bet is in spreading your attacks over the largest number of small attacks possible...grinding on the small fish. (That's a colloquialism but NOT a euphemism.)
Hitting big targets is a strategy best left to players who want to gamble for much higher than average results, as opposed to those with sufficient forces to compete on volumes. I do somewhat agree with the underlying thrust of Bow's complaint--in my opinion the standard deviation in the statistical model of attack rewards ought to be substantially smaller. Right now those big costly attacks are way too much like a craps shoot and I haven't seen much evidence that there's even a 50% chance of getting much higher volume or rarity in drops.
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
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Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 03:20 |
Hi Bow, Um. I could equally pull an example out of the db of someone receiving more than 300 items from a Horde.... Can I ask you to ask someone in your alliance (I'd suggest someone good with numbers... HM perhaps?) to explain the utter irrational futility in pulling a couple of sample numbers out of a hat containing a large number of randomly generated samples and comparing these two sample numbers in order to try and ascertain the probability distribution of what other numbers remain in the hat. For sure, the risk/reward ratio may (or may not) be fair for the larger vs smaller spawns - but this will *only* be apparent (or not) when you look at all attacks on Legions vs Handfuls as a whole on the entire weighted probability distribution outcome curve. Drop rates and propensities may (or may not) be adjusted by us, depending on what we find when we look at the data. To be clear, we know what the maths says the outcome will be over a statistically significant sample size - the only thing we might alter the maths for are gameplay factors such as the frequency of what *we* want to drop (ie the common vs rare drops), and under what circumstances they drop. Yours, putting the 'ballistic' into probaballisticly  , SC
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 22 Apr 2011 at 23:42 |
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I have not kept records...but my gut says my experience is like Bow Locks. It seems like there is a much better payoff with Packs over Legions.
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bow locks
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: 22 Apr 2011 at 23:14 |
Just to balance my earier whinge; | Attackers: |
Unit: |
Quantity: |
Casualties: |
Survivors: |
| Commander: hoodietwo |
Longbowman |
1 |
Damaged for 0, 600 health remains. |
| Troops: |
Knights |
130 |
0 |
130 |
| Defenders: |
Unit: |
Quantity: |
Casualties: |
Survivors: |
| Troops: |
Small Salamanders |
2 |
2 |
0 |
Your victorious troops retrieved:
24 
2 Salamander Claws
from the slain foes.
Right. This is cool. Clearly balanced. Clearly just statistical anomalies.
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Selissa
Wordsmith
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 169
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Posted: 22 Apr 2011 at 17:06 |
Createure wrote:
yep, number 1 rule: stay away from legions.
@SC: would it be possible for us to get some stats during or after the tourny that breaks down how each Race performs in the tourny? It'd be nice to get some inter-species rivalry going I think. :P
Now... anyone want to bet against me when I say...
Biggest collection: #1 Human, #2 Elf, #3 Orc, #4 Dwarf Unique collection: #1 Elf, #2 Human, #3 Orc, #4 Dwarf
...? 
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Don't think much of dwarves, do you? ;)
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Selissa
Proud member of Curse of the Wolves
I'm an angel, honest! The horns are just there to keep the halo straight!
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Createure
Postmaster General
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: 22 Apr 2011 at 16:55 |
yep, number 1 rule: stay away from legions. @SC: would it be possible for us to get some stats during or after the tourny that breaks down how each Race performs in the tourny? It'd be nice to get some inter-species rivalry going I think. :P Now... anyone want to bet against me when I say... Biggest collection: #1 Human, #2 Elf, #3 Orc, #4 Dwarf Unique collection: #1 Elf, #2 Human, #3 Orc, #4 Dwarf...?
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bow locks
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: 20 Apr 2011 at 15:33 |
The more dangerous / larger the NPC spawn, the more chance you have of
getting both more different types of drop as well as more of each item
that drops. ffs i took out a legion or whatever, well over 5000 of the boogers and got; NOTHING. | Defenders: |
Unit: |
Quantity: |
Casualties: |
Survivors: |
| Troops: |
Scaled Chargers |
2248 |
2248 |
0 |
| Troops: |
Armoured Chargers |
1941 |
1941 |
0 |
| Troops: |
Heavy Chargers |
808 |
808 |
0 |
| Troops: |
Lightning Chargers |
657 |
657 |
0 |
Your victorious troops retrieved:
101138 
from the slain foes.
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Fateful Ending
Greenhorn
Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 68
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Posted: 17 Apr 2011 at 02:32 |
Brids17 wrote:
Is it me or is larger not equalling more? I know it's suppose to be random but I'm finding killing groups of 10 work out to have better odds than killing groups of 300. I killed ten spiders today and got one leg from them. That's ten kills per item. I also killed 66 dogs and got 4 items, that's 16.5 per item. 175 brown bears and 7 items, 25 per item. 374 spiders and 12 items, 31 kills per item. Not only that, 31 kills per item for a horde is the highest I've ever received. Doesn't sound very random to me.
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I win Brids 1733 kills per part. I took out a legion, and was particularly unlucky
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 16 Apr 2011 at 14:12 |
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It's ok, Llyorn, I understand that some must evolve more slowly than others.
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