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bansisdead 
Postmaster
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 609
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 Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 13:49 |
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consensus = mob rule led by demagogues
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 15:53 |
What Rill talked about is reality, not opinion. The actions (or non-actions) of the overwhelmingly largest group of people always lays down the rules of what is "right" and "wrong". If you want to lay down such rules, then you can either try with a smaller group and risk getting violently slapped down or go ahead and form that large group (consensus) first to make sure you avoid getting violently slapped down.
No matter what, you need that larger group "on your side". The only distinction is whether you need them on your side passively or actively. Those arguing against "consensus" are really arguing for a global "passive consensus" to not involve ourselves in "others affairs" (I imagine you'll argue for a long time over that phrase). It's a passive consensus to not support or oppose any action taken by any subgroup (of course, what about confeds, friendships, morality, etc...). In some way shape or form it still must be a consensus or it won't work...
Keep in mind that the dev's made the game an open sandbox but they did include alliances. In a very real sense, an alliance is a consensus among a subgroup so the idea of consensus is very much part of the game already.
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glorfindel
Wordsmith
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 129
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 16:44 |
 Quackers wrote:
There are alot of people that wanted to side with Aesir but felt it was not the right time. Once there is real reason for TLR to be attacked you will see huge support of this from many alliances. Even alliances that sided with TLR at this time. Just the mess it would have brought at this time out weighed reward.
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I agree with this quote, and it speaks to my original post in the other thread wherein I speculated that there was a conspiracy to take down TLR among other alliances other than Aesir (as yet identified) who stayed out of the fight because they "felt it was not the right time," aka, once NC, N, Skorn, and KV jumped in on TLR's side, they weren't willing to stick their necks out. Not all conspiracy theories are "vast mumble-wing conspiracy" theories with no basis; TLR and EF's controversial nature make them a target for such a conspiracy. I don't even think EF or TLR would contest that.
But I fundamentally believe that this ain't over, and that we'll see further military action in August. Act 1 was the TRO/TLR war, act 2 was the Aesir/TLR war. What will act 3 be? And will this play turn out to be a comedy or tragedy?
(Thus far, I'd say it has elements of both.)
Edited by glorfindel - 31 Jul 2012 at 16:45
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 16:59 |
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I think August is a bit optimistic, but I believe that within 6 months all interested parties will be tested.
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Bonfyr Verboo
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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 17:36 |
abstractdream wrote:
I think August is a bit optimistic, but I believe that within 6 months all interested parties will be tested. |
6 months is a long time. "Interested parties" may strike early if they see that their rivals have a chance to gather power.
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glorfindel
Wordsmith
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 129
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 17:42 |
abstractdream wrote:
I think August is a bit optimistic. |
LOL -- "optimistic." Just so you know, I'm dispassionate about it either way. I'd just say "probable."
Isn't TLR located in Ursor? And isn't Ursor rich in the rare mineral stuff? If so, trade v2 could present a new conflict over turf wars that could lead to "Act 3."
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 18:05 |
glorfindel wrote:
abstractdream wrote:
I think August is a bit optimistic. |
LOL -- "optimistic." Just so you know, I'm dispassionate about it either way. I'd just say "probable."
Isn't TLR located in Ursor? And isn't Ursor rich in the rare mineral stuff? If so, trade v2 could present a new conflict over turf wars that could lead to "Act 3." |
All true. Ander, I mean within 6 months, between now and then...sometime, just not that soon. I could be wrong. It happens daily.
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Bonfyr Verboo
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Gemley
Postmaster
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Location: Ralidor
Status: Offline
Points: 586
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 18:09 |
glorfindel wrote:
abstractdream wrote:
I think August is a bit optimistic. |
LOL -- "optimistic." Just so you know, I'm dispassionate about it either way. I'd just say "probable."
Isn't TLR located in Ursor? And isn't Ursor rich in the rare mineral stuff? If so, trade v2 could present a new conflict over turf wars that could lead to "Act 3." |
TLR will most likely have one of the largest supplies of rare minerals and so TLR's armies will be better equiped then other alliances making TLR harder to defeat. Prediction: TLR will win "Act 3."
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�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien
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Endrok
Wordsmith
Joined: 12 May 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 104
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 18:14 |
Wolfgangvondi wrote:
Like some old wise Orcs say.. if you want to know if you have friends.. need them! them u will see what friends you realy have. The rest is talk.
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Very true .... I friend willing to act is worth 100 willing to talk.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 18:16 |
I challenge anyone here to name a single time I called for anyone to be swatted without mercy. Indeed, over multiple forum posts, in global chat, in alliance chat, in private mails and in my general actions, I call for and demonstrate restraint, mercy and a belief in redemption and transformation -- even when doing so made me a lonely voice against a large power or the majority opinion -- or, what was most difficult, my close friends or alliance mates.
I speak for what I believe; when I see something that I think is wrong, I condemn it; when I see something that I think is right, I praise it. I do not do so with perfect consistency, and perhaps sometimes I speak too quickly, too loudly or too often, but I do my best.
I have no expectation that I will be universally liked or admired, but if you are going to denigrate or despise me (or others), then do so for something I (or they) actually say or do, not as some sort of symbol of something you don't like.
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