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Ander 
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
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 Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 17:36 |
 abstractdream wrote:
I think August is a bit optimistic, but I believe that within 6 months all interested parties will be tested. |
6 months is a long time. "Interested parties" may strike early if they see that their rivals have a chance to gather power.
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 16:59 |
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I think August is a bit optimistic, but I believe that within 6 months all interested parties will be tested.
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Bonfyr Verboo
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glorfindel
Wordsmith
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 129
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 16:44 |
Quackers wrote:
There are alot of people that wanted to side with Aesir but felt it was not the right time. Once there is real reason for TLR to be attacked you will see huge support of this from many alliances. Even alliances that sided with TLR at this time. Just the mess it would have brought at this time out weighed reward.
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I agree with this quote, and it speaks to my original post in the other thread wherein I speculated that there was a conspiracy to take down TLR among other alliances other than Aesir (as yet identified) who stayed out of the fight because they "felt it was not the right time," aka, once NC, N, Skorn, and KV jumped in on TLR's side, they weren't willing to stick their necks out. Not all conspiracy theories are "vast mumble-wing conspiracy" theories with no basis; TLR and EF's controversial nature make them a target for such a conspiracy. I don't even think EF or TLR would contest that.
But I fundamentally believe that this ain't over, and that we'll see further military action in August. Act 1 was the TRO/TLR war, act 2 was the Aesir/TLR war. What will act 3 be? And will this play turn out to be a comedy or tragedy?
(Thus far, I'd say it has elements of both.)
Edited by glorfindel - 31 Jul 2012 at 16:45
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 15:53 |
What Rill talked about is reality, not opinion. The actions (or non-actions) of the overwhelmingly largest group of people always lays down the rules of what is "right" and "wrong". If you want to lay down such rules, then you can either try with a smaller group and risk getting violently slapped down or go ahead and form that large group (consensus) first to make sure you avoid getting violently slapped down.
No matter what, you need that larger group "on your side". The only distinction is whether you need them on your side passively or actively. Those arguing against "consensus" are really arguing for a global "passive consensus" to not involve ourselves in "others affairs" (I imagine you'll argue for a long time over that phrase). It's a passive consensus to not support or oppose any action taken by any subgroup (of course, what about confeds, friendships, morality, etc...). In some way shape or form it still must be a consensus or it won't work...
Keep in mind that the dev's made the game an open sandbox but they did include alliances. In a very real sense, an alliance is a consensus among a subgroup so the idea of consensus is very much part of the game already.
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bansisdead
Postmaster
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 609
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 13:49 |
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consensus = mob rule led by demagogues
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 13:04 |
agree with noki, and yes, i play illyiriad. i play it and i enjoy it. i may sound a bit jerkish at times, and i have to put up a troll mask, but that's a necessity, sadly.
i brought up H? cause to my experiences, those guys are the true neutrals of illy.
Edited by SugarFree - 31 Jul 2012 at 13:07
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Nokigon
Postmaster General
Player Council - Historian
Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1452
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 09:14 |
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In some ways, though not about the Harmless stuff, I agree with Sugarfree. What you are talking about, Rill, is a large group of people laying down rules of what is right and wrong, and any who disobey said rules will be swatted without mercy. A slight exaggeration, perhaps, but I'm not too sure this is too far from the truth. You said that a large group of people need to develop consensus and solve the conflict with words. I disagree. I think that if soeone thinks a certain way about something then they should do something about it. This is not a debating society. It is a war game, and if the Devs hadn't intended for us to fight each other then they would not have incorporated armies. And anyway, who would be this large group of people? You? Me? It seems that you're trying both to create world peace, which isn't necessarily down to you, but you attempt to do it by having a large group of 'police' over the rest of the Illy population. So you're trying to stop war by replacing it with discussion, but you're backing up your 'comittee' with a large group of people strong enough to dictate to everyone else what they should do. How is this very different to what Aesir did?
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Sisren
Forum Warrior
Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 04:12 |
Concensus would have been AEsir approaching their allies, and gaining support for their works. I'm kind of surprised that you 2 don't really understand the concept.
As far as it being about just/ unjust - justice is giving to each what they deserve tempered by mercy. But i guess you may not know that either...
And I am unfamiliar with you SugarFree, do you actually play Illy? or just trowl the forums? I am not sure why you feel the need to bring up H? near as I can tell they commented on the original post and are out of it. /me shrugs
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 02:43 |
masses are ignorant and easily fooled. majority rule is not always the rule of the "right" i despise that. i despise people that manipulate the ignorant masses to their own profit. consensus is an other word for making unjust just and bleach personal opinions and individual freedom into a blank monotone of gray. Yucks!
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 02:21 |
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Consensus is a general consent of all (or in a non-technical sense a large number of) a group of people. Those can be members of an alliance, a group of confederated alliances, a group of allies, or a group of people with disparate interests and agendas. The larger and arguably more varied the group, the more compelling their agreement will be.
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Is the war over Æsir? Surely not?
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