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EvilKatia 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 210
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 Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 19:36 |
+1 deranzin I find it sad and somehow disturbing....so H? (evil or not) are restricted access.
Fine its Eaque, the creator of Illytool decision, its his program. But then all their data shouldnt be seen and use by others too. they should be wholly and totally excluded out of this. after all if they cant use it why should others be able to see them get info on them ? Also I remember H? players saying they didnt doubt Eaque integrity on Gc in the past.....
So blaming them for that....why just not block all those who made those comments instead ? each time they make them from whatever alliance block them.....
RIP Illytool I guess I better get un-lazy. sad days. |
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Kat
'They have to always turn a forum post into a badly written book that gives a headache and takes your iq points' - AO
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 19:27 |
 Daufer wrote:
So far the price for using IllyTools is : don't declare war on an ally of the guy who wrote it. Seems like an amazingly small price to pay. |
Small or not it IS a price to PAY and its significance will be assessed by each INDIVIDUAL playing the game and not by you or me (and on that regard I was very carefully with my expressions on the matter ).
Of what I understand, said price was not written in the ToS of the tool, btw ... :p
| Aside from the H? members who have a stake in demonizing anything their opponent does, I can't see why anyone else finds this unreasonable. |
Really .?. Is this matter only viewed as sad only by H? members .?. Could be, I haven't checked if all those comments belong to H? members, but your statement sounds a bit implausible ...
| If you have a friend who regularly borrows your car, and you catch him banging your girlfriend one day, do you still let him borrow the car? If you decide not to, should other people think less of you for it? |
Sorry, but this example is utterly wrong.
First of all we do not have a car borrowed with a friend, but a car SHARED with MANY friends. Second of all, noone broke ANY promises (that banging of girlfriend implies that) since noone knew of that price you mentioned before. Third point is that you just keep ONE person out of the many away from the shared vehicle. Forth point is that I am not thinking anything less of the creator of said tool (not thinking anything more either, btw). I just said that other people might think twice about the wisdom of using such a shared vehicle, to stick with your example, or if it was wise to use it in the first place.
Other minor point pending clarification is what happened with the driving licence and registration that the banned person left in the glove compartment when you changed the vehicle keys ... hey, after all it wasn't such a bad example ... :p
| As far as I can tell the data-mining potential of IllyTools is limited to voluntarily sending your combat reports to a compilation site |
Well, sorry, but I'd like the programmer himself to clarify that point instead of wading into programming speculations ...
| Other obvious sources of military value include redbirds, population history table to tell you if a player is offline every thursday, and empire gives you a quick overview of what you have and are producing in your own cities at a glance, which saves time. None of this is stuff you couldn't do for yourself or write a simple script to do for you if you have a programming background. |
Point being .?.
Edited by Deranzin - 14 Oct 2012 at 19:29
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Daufer
Forum Warrior
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 19:04 |
Deranzin wrote:
When something is exclusive then a price has to be paid for it, even if it is a seemingly small one like staying in a particular alliance, for instance ...
... it is however a very significant move and when a free commodity suddenly aquires a price, then people do tend to think twice of using it again and whether they were wise to use it in the first place.
All in all, bad PR move ... and if indeed they could get data out of it that could aid them to the war, then giving notice that something is wrong was a bad strategic move as well ... :p |
So far the price for using IllyTools is : don't declare war on an ally of the guy who wrote it. Seems like an amazingly small price to pay. Aside from the H? members who have a stake in demonizing anything their opponent does, I can't see why anyone else finds this unreasonable. If you have a friend who regularly borrows your car, and you catch him banging your girlfriend one day, do you still let him borrow the car? If you decide not to, should other people think less of you for it?
As far as I can tell the data-mining potential of IllyTools is limited to voluntarily sending your combat reports to a compilation site, which might show a pattern of the kind of troops you use and how many you have or how fast you replace them. If you think sharing your combat reports with the public is a bad idea you probably shouldn't click the big button that says "share my combat report"
Other obvious sources of military value include redbirds, population history table to tell you if a player is offline every thursday, and empire gives you a quick overview of what you have and are producing in your own cities at a glance, which saves time. None of this is stuff you couldn't do for yourself or write a simple script to do for you if you have a programming background.
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Starry
Postmaster
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 612
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 19:04 |
tansiraine wrote:
if you have illytools installed ( and it works ) you can get information about anyone in illy it takes the information from the server. you can see how long ago it was since someone had activity on their account, city locations and populations also the redbird tacking is great to catch thieves. That is only some of the great options of illytools.
I am disappointed in EEK for making such a great tool for the better enjoyment of the game to disable it over politics.
There are many things EEK can find out from illytools since he does have the server so he can tell when someone used the program last and i believe even get ip addresses for those whom have installed it if i remember correctly.
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IP addresses, account name and other data are personal information, as I read the terms of third party tools, it's forbidden to collect data.
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CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?
"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule
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Pellinell
Forum Warrior
Joined: 08 Apr 2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 298
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 18:55 |
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Poor form by Eaque.
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 18:42 |
Gragnog wrote:
Look at the people who say they are helping you. |
Heh, I have never used that tool - thus no idea what it did - but this is a very valid point ...
Something is either made to be "free for all" or it is made to be exclusive to those that pay the price for it ....
When something is "free for all" then it goes without saying that there is no price and no strings attached to it ...
When something is exclusive then a price has to be paid for it, even if it is a seemingly small one like staying in a particular alliance, for instance ...
These things are not against the rules, as far as I know and not immoral either (basic tavern marketing actually : "come to our restaurant, we have the best steaks" ) ... it is however a very significant move and when a free commodity suddenly aquires a price, then people do tend to think twice of using it again and whether they were wise to use it in the first place.
All in all, bad PR move ... and if indeed they could get data out of it that could aid them to the war, then giving notice that something is wrong was a bad strategic move as well ... :p
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Daufer
Forum Warrior
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 18:32 |
IceDragon wrote:
Eaque wrote:
FYI, the decision to block H? and Dlord from Illytools has been taken by me, not EE leadership nor Consone. |
Well sorry but that means it should NOT be available to Consone alliance as well .Only fair is fair |
Any alliance with a competent programmer should be able to develop something like this. No doubt many have, and didn't release the tool for the public to use. I'm sure H? has something that gives them all the military tools they need and the loss of IllyTools isn't going to negatively affect them. Why should Eaque punish everyone not at war with his confederation by denying them the use of the app? Why should his own alliance not be allowed to benefit from his work and creativity just because he won't let his enemies use it?
And what on earth does fair have to do with war anyway? That's just silly. You keep advantages for yourself and you deny them to the enemy if possible. Doing it the other way around is moronic.
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Daufer
Forum Warrior
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 18:27 |
Starry wrote:
Granek wrote:
PirateKing wrote:
Harmless should shut down the Illy Wiki and Butler to be equally spiteful.  |
God, I hope Butler isn't shut down! I think I'd cry if I had to go back to the defaults chat windows, with their non-standard emoticons and *shudders* medals.
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No worries and no plans to do so, these sites were released for the use and enjoyment for all players by HonoredMule. He has too much integrity to play games with tools that have been released to the public.
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Plus, other players using Butler and the wiki can't use it to gain any military advantage over H?, so why would he bother?
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DeathDealer89
Postmaster
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 944
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 18:15 |
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Such a noble player turned evil and corrupt by consone. Consone must be stopped before they corrupt more noble players.
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Dieneces
New Poster
Joined: 06 May 2012
Location: virginia USA
Status: Offline
Points: 39
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Posted: 14 Oct 2012 at 18:10 |
Eaque wrote:
FYI, the decision to block H? and Dlord from Illytools has been taken by me, not EE leadership nor Consone. |
Well sorry but that means it should NOT be available to Consone alliance as well .Only fair is fair
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