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Gragnog 
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598
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 Posted: 17 May 2013 at 15:11 |
 Salararius wrote:
There's a mathematical flaw with the belief that everyone can settle as close as 10 squares from another's city and that everyone can own 10 squares around their city. If everyone has the right to own 10 squares around their city then no one can settle closer than 20 squares of another's city. But that's really beside the main point.
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I have no problem with my neighbors harvesting if they are also within 10 squares. My problem comes in when people travel distances to harvest. And I also realize that there are no rules in Illy. That being said, harvest away near my cities. If I am in a good mood you may get some items. If I am not, you will lose your gatherers.
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Kaggen is my human half
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519
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Posted: 17 May 2013 at 14:25 |
Gragnog wrote:
It all comes down to personal opinions and actions. My opinion is if you go into a farmers lands and steal his cows you are a thief, and as such you cannot moan if you get caught and punished. Illyriad is much the same in that I am a peaceful farmer who protects his lands. Now the boundies of those lands can be disputed but if you look at many alliances, they all have the "do not settle within 10 squares" and as such I consider 10 squares arounds my cites as my grazing lands. If you come from further out than that to STEAL items you know you did spend any energy in obtaining expect punishment. If you have any inclination to make an issue and try and retaliate on my "grazing lands" or park an army there expect to be visited by many more farmers with pitchforks and ploughs. |
I like the analogy but it's incomplete at best. There are no clear boundaries in this game. The skins and animal parts that fall from slaughtered animals look exactly like the skins and animal parts that fall from animals fighting each other. A better analogy is if you are an apple "farmer" who has a dozen apple trees within an arbitrary distance of your home. At some random interval you put forth an effort to knock the apples off your trees and leave them laying on the ground with the intention of picking them up later. You thus feel that no one should collect any apples within that arbitrary distance from anyone's house because of the effort you've expended. As a result of this universally applied belief, you feel you don't have to mark "your" apple trees and you can automatically kill anyone who grabs an apple from the ground around "your" trees. Using the farmer paradigm, that's a closer analogy and I'm pretty sure most people would not consider a farmer like that very "peaceful".
There's a mathematical flaw with the belief that everyone can settle as close as 10 squares from another's city and that everyone can own 10 squares around their city. If everyone has the right to own 10 squares around their city then no one can settle closer than 20 squares of another's city. But that's really beside the main point.
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Gragnog
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598
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Posted: 17 May 2013 at 12:20 |
Auraya wrote:
My alliance rule is not to harvest within 3 squares of an active player.. but I have, more than once, killed/harvested parts 1-2 squares from a player and dropped them an IGM asking if they are active and want the parts. I'm prepared to give the parts up and recognise their claim but I'd have a VERY big problem if someone wiped my army/harvesters after I mailed them about it.
If someone was harvesting parts I had killed too close to my city, I'd mail them to request the parts back rather than kill their skinners. If they continued to harvest too close despite being warned about it, then I'd consider taking military action.. but even then, I'd be more likely to simply bump them and mail their leadership.
As with everything, try to treat people as you would like to be treated. How would you feel if your skinners were repeatedly being killed by players 7+ squares away who didn't bother to mark their kills? Compare that to how you would feel if your skinners were merely bumped and you got a mail saying 'Sorry but I killed these so I consider the parts to be mine' |
Everyone has their own way of dealing with things. I do not have a problem with people mailing me and asking if they can harvest, but without any form of communication and taking stuff you did not kill in the hope that it is a NPC killing another close to my cities always will get the same response. My farmers will go forth at speed to kill the offenders. If you are a new player then best start slow and develop instead of getting everything for free. If you are an older player you should know better. If I harvest close to other people I mail them and wait for a response before sending my harvesters. It is just polite. You do not go onto someone elses property in real life expecting to be given stuff you did not earn, unless you are a beggar and then the response will be go get a job, so why do you think it is ok to do so in Illy?
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Kaggen is my human half
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Auraya
Postmaster
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 523
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Posted: 17 May 2013 at 11:37 |
If I spot a legion of rats, I'll kill them and leave the hides/parts because I'm only interested in the exp. People can harvest those if they want them.. I deliberately don't leave an army on those. If I kill something with parts I want, I leave my army there. To expect people not to gather animal parts of hides within 10 squares of a city is unrealistic. If NPCs didn't attack each other then what you're asking would seem much more reasonable.. but they do and no-one knows who killed what. Smaller players can't afford to kill a lot of NPCs and getting the hides to build their skinners is tough - NPC battles are very useful for them and killing the skinners they have worked very hard to build is counterproductive.
My alliance rule is not to harvest within 3 squares of an active player.. but I have, more than once, killed/harvested parts 1-2 squares from a player and dropped them an IGM asking if they are active and want the parts. I'm prepared to give the parts up and recognise their claim but I'd have a VERY big problem if someone wiped my army/harvesters after I mailed them about it.
If someone was harvesting parts I had killed too close to my city, I'd mail them to request the parts back rather than kill their skinners. If they continued to harvest too close despite being warned about it, then I'd consider taking military action.. but even then, I'd be more likely to simply bump them and mail their leadership.
As with everything, try to treat people as you would like to be treated. How would you feel if your skinners were repeatedly being killed by players 7+ squares away who didn't bother to mark their kills? Compare that to how you would feel if your skinners were merely bumped and you got a mail saying 'Sorry but I killed these so I consider the parts to be mine'
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Gragnog
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598
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Posted: 17 May 2013 at 10:33 |
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It all comes down to personal opinions and actions. My opinion is if you go into a farmers lands and steal his cows you are a thief, and as such you cannot moan if you get caught and punished. Illyriad is much the same in that I am a peaceful farmer who protects his lands. Now the boundies of those lands can be disputed but if you look at many alliances, they all have the "do not settle within 10 squares" and as such I consider 10 squares arounds my cites as my grazing lands. If you come from further out than that to STEAL items you know you did spend any energy in obtaining expect punishment. If you have any inclination to make an issue and try and retaliate on my "grazing lands" or park an army there expect to be visited by many more farmers with pitchforks and ploughs.
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Kaggen is my human half
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Meagh
Forum Warrior
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 224
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Posted: 17 May 2013 at 05:16 |
Salararius wrote:
If you don't like what others do, you have no moral prerogative to "correct" the situation with force or by destroying their units. |
It is a moral imperative that I kill any poachers on my sov squares, whether or not I made the kill.
Otherwise, it is my view that if you kill it, you harvest it. If you did not kill it, then you risk putting yourself in a bad spot by harvesting it. - M.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 17 May 2013 at 00:55 |
As with most things, those with more power can make their own rules or flout conventions proposed by others. Those with less power would be wise to pay attention to such conventions and to the wishes of their neighbors.
This is of course so obvious that one may question whether it needs to be stated, but I thought I'd say it in case we have a person who has not learned this lesson irl or thinks that in a fantasy world this does not apply.
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DeathDealer89
Postmaster
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 944
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Posted: 16 May 2013 at 23:06 |
You can state whatever rules you want. Doesn't mean others have to play by them.
Don't be surprised if other people kill your harvesters because you killed theirs.
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519
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Posted: 16 May 2013 at 21:52 |
If there are hides or animal parts and there are no skinners, harvesters or troops on them or traveling to them then they are available.
A player may have killed them (or maybe not, how can anyone tell) but if they are important then the player should send a unit to collect or guard them. If a player leaves goods laying around, then as in real life they can expect someone else will pick it up.
If you don't like what others do, you have no moral prerogative to "correct" the situation with force or by destroying their units. You may be able to do so, but don't expect everyone to bless you and say you have that right and if you do find yourself in the weaker position then you can expect to reap what you sow.
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Brandmeister
Postmaster General
Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Location: Laoshin
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 16 May 2013 at 20:22 |
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@Machete: +1
I always leave the army on the kill, but that's just me. It eliminates all ownership questions and possible conflicts. I've also been burned by NPC spawn points delivering animals to a square after my harvesters are on the way (but inconveniently, I never see that with enough time to send cavalry to save them).
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Harvesting hides and animal parts
