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Topic ClosedHarmless? [H?] declares war on Absaroke [Absa]

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 14:02
Originally posted by LordOfTheSwamp LordOfTheSwamp wrote:

Originally posted by Angrim Angrim wrote:

Originally posted by LordOfTheSwamp LordOfTheSwamp wrote:

There is a disagreement playing out between those who believe that morality and justice are important in Illy, and those who think it's fun to kick people around.

Those who say that morality and justice are important in Illy but won't put themselves on the line to defend that, and will then bleat like (in Grego's phrase) sheep when Illy isn't the friendly, welcoming, supportive place that they thought it was.

as a neutral in the conflict, i thought i might register that neither peace nor any side is helped by a blanket insult issued to everyone who is not fighting for the side you favour.

I am fighting in favour of morality and justice being important in Illy. H? have made it clear that they believe they have the right to attack people when it suits them - see KP's "the game gives me a catapult so I have the right to use it" argument, for one of many examples.

If you believe morality and justice being important in Illy, then you are not neutral - you are on my side. But if that is the case then it is reasonable that I ask why you aren't actually acting in this to defend the victims in this aggression - Absa and VIC.

If you have no opinion on whether morality and justice are important, then you are, as you say, a neutral party, and so I am not insulting you or calling you names, as you are not in any of the 3 groups I describe above.

But if you want morality and justice being important in Illy, and you do nothing to defend that, and then you whine in future, then it is absolutely fair that I call you out for that.

Up to you whether, as the saying goes, "the boot fits."

The logical fallacy here is that you assume there are only 3 sides...
Also, your definition of justice may or may not align with how others would view it.
As for morality, the only moral thing to do in a game such as this is 'what keeps me alive'.  That is the only right and proper thing to do after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 14:07
That post was for consone players to understand your question.

using point 2 from that manual:

You say: VIC is attacking RHY during tournament.
I say: VIC is helping Absa to break RHY siege camps...

And to answer your question:
Yes of course in my opinion it is absolutely correct that VIC is helping Absa to defend.
I believe that is most important point in Consone agreement - defend each other against aggression.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 14:25
Originally posted by Mogul Mogul wrote:

That post was for consone players to understand your question.

using point 2 from that manual:

You say: VIC is attacking RHY during tournament.
I say: VIC is helping Absa to break RHY siege camps...

And to answer your question:
Yes of course in my opinion it is absolutely correct that VIC is helping Absa to defend.
I believe that is most important point in Consone agreement - defend each other against aggression.



From my understanding of it being that it hasn't been fought a great deal is that there had been a deal more or less completed and pretty sure that Absa ended up being the aggressor after the fact.

Which hasn't really been argued but rather people complain more so about the reaction to said aggression. Start a fight... start to get your towns siege'd... cry foul and ask a larger alliance to help then cry foul again when another alliance steps in larger than your friend. Remember it all was fine upto the point H? and was not considered unfair (Absa/ShB/VIC vs RHY) but after RHY had help now RHY and H? are the bad guys.

I fully understand the main purpose you have here is propaganda with your pics being proof of it. Problem is that its kind of a poor attempt at it :/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 14:58
It does seem at this point that a war of some sort is inevitable. However , I personally feel that , to prosecute an exaggerated conflict, starting from a minor "friction" over the resources on two mines, is a sad refelction on the inability of some players in H?/Dlord to fail to accept the changes that Tv2 brought to the game of Illy.
 
No matter how H? leaders twist and turn to justify their irrational aggression   to the community , they cannot,  by any stretch of the imagination compare  Absa  with "White" or the "Tubana faction of MK" and those who insist on removing Absa cities from Keppen are only doing so because they are stuck in the past of the "old Illyriad".
 
The game has moved on from the old "Siege, Grabbit and LOL" mentality that we have seen in the forums over the last two days. Those who want to prosecute this war simply because they want to stay "top dog" or  just want to "siege cos its fun" are doing the community a diservice because it is plain that community doesn't want this. Many also accept that Absa don't deserve  this.
 
Elsewhere Angrim of mCrow, wrote, that if you want peace "you have to work for it".  H? are now indicating that their armies may attack and siege irregardless of whether RHY and Absa settle this or not.  So it seems that if the community wants peace now it is going to have to fight for it!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 15:07
Originally posted by hellion19 hellion19 wrote:

 From my understanding of it being that it hasn't been fought a great deal is that there had been a deal more or less completed and pretty sure that Absa ended up being the aggressor after the fact.
Discussions who was the first aggressor are on 35 pages in that other thread... you can find there many people that are pretty sure it was RHY and many pretty sure it was Absa.

Originally posted by hellion19 hellion19 wrote:

Remember it all was fine upto the point H? and was not considered unfair (Absa/ShB/VIC vs RHY) but after RHY had help now RHY and H? are the bad guys.

No I don't remember that. Nothing was fine.
For me and I guess everyone in Consone, RHY are the bad guys since beginning of this conflict.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 15:11
Originally posted by Ossian Ossian wrote:


*****
 
No matter how H? leaders twist and turn to justify their irrational aggression   to the community , they cannot,  by any stretch of the imagination compare  Absa  with "White" or the "Tubana faction of MK" and those who insist on removing Absa cities from Keppen are only doing so because they are stuck in the past of the "old Illyriad".
 
*****

OK, Bringing up Tubana and MK involves ME.  There was never a "Tubana faction of MK."  There was MK and there was Tubana.   Tubana was the ONLY MK player that lost cities in the MK - H?/Dlords & Coalition conflict.  

Them's the facts, Jax.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 15:41
Originally posted by Ossian Ossian wrote:

It does seem at this point that a war of some sort is inevitable.
You forgot to post this message in more related threads. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 18:27
Originally posted by Ossian Ossian wrote:

It does seem at this point that a war of some sort is inevitable. However , I personally feel that , to prosecute an exaggerated conflict, starting from a minor "friction" over the resources on two mines, is a sad refelction on the inability of some players in H?/Dlord to fail to accept the changes that Tv2 brought to the game of Illy.
Ignorance can be a fine thing, just please don't go trying to hand out buckets of it to the rest of us. Keep it to yourself.

Please show in your vast knowledge of information where Dlord has entered this conflict at all.
None you say? - ignorance confirmed.

Additionally, the game isn't going to go changing into Castleville or Farmville as some desire, It will always be, in part, a war game and T2 has helped to establish this point, and is in fact the one of the very reasons the Devs wanted it in place (increased friction). Seems others need to move with where the game trying to get back to, and what the Devs are, in part, looking for. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 18:37
Suggesting that the devs want us to play in their sandbox in one way or another way is a fairly common occurrence.  I have heard the devs repeatedly say that they don't have any preconceptions about how we should interact with the sandbox and that they are charmed and delighted by the "castles" we create here.

If people have ideas about what should or shouldn't be or how things should or shouldn't be done, advocate for them vigorously!  But using "the devs want it" as a crutch for one's ideas is not particularly convincing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2012 at 18:42
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

Those of us who live as free men in real life do not come to Illy to have a submissive life in a fantasy world.

See, when you put it that way, it actually sounds pretty good. 
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