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HAN B|B STARK Peace

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Han Dynasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 21:48
Originally posted by Bimoda Bimoda wrote:

Twilights, this game is built upon relationships, politics, alliances, confederations and so on.  I don't think that you will ever see (we never have in the past) a time where players outside of an alliance won't come to the aid of others.   I am a true sandbox player.  I have nothing against an aggressive style of play.  But the smaller, newer alliances will need to learn what the established ones have long ago.  You can't judge an alliance/player by their current size.  You need to consider who else might become involved.  You need to politic, you need to have intelligence on the other side, their friends, their friends friends.  You need to know who you can count on.  You need to know who may flake on you.   And that is part of what makes Illy so intriguing.

Originally posted by twilights twilights wrote:

I question larger accounts from outside alliances getting involved...make certain you don't try this tactic in my backyard and it might be time for broken land alliances to start uniting to take protective measures land claim or not...harsh terms..leave the old lands out dated play up north....we got faction play down here..we don't need corrupt play down here! go play amongst yourselves!

So where were you half a year ago? You're right, you need to know politics. You didn't care about the Han HS conflict that was started by Phoenixfire then because it didn't aid your political agenda. 

This isn't someone interfering to protect some poor, down in the dirt alliance. This is a group of players  alliances expanding their political influence. It is as simple as that.


Edited by Han Dynasty - 01 Aug 2015 at 21:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bimoda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 21:23
Twilights, this game is built upon relationships, politics, alliances, confederations and so on.  I don't think that you will ever see (we never have in the past) a time where players outside of an alliance won't come to the aid of others.   I am a true sandbox player.  I have nothing against an aggressive style of play.  But the smaller, newer alliances will need to learn what the established ones have long ago.  You can't judge an alliance/player by their current size.  You need to consider who else might become involved.  You need to politic, you need to have intelligence on the other side, their friends, their friends friends.  You need to know who you can count on.  You need to know who may flake on you.   And that is part of what makes Illy so intriguing.

Originally posted by twilights twilights wrote:

I question larger accounts from outside alliances getting involved...make certain you don't try this tactic in my backyard and it might be time for broken land alliances to start uniting to take protective measures land claim or not...harsh terms..leave the old lands out dated play up north....we got faction play down here..we don't need corrupt play down here! go play amongst yourselves!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bimoda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 21:15
Jejune, you are entitled to your opinion, but HAN, as the aggressor in this conflict is paying the price for that aggression.  It is immaterial as to whom joined in.   They thought they were going to take care of a weak target, took a calculated risk and failed.  There are penalties to pay when this happens.   If there were not repercussions,  every alliance would have incentive to attack another alliance and if they failed say "Hey, my bad" and skip out without penalty.

As for not settling in STARKs DoH, it was a consequence of their own actions.  STARK abandoned their LC stance and publicly stated that they would not impede alliances from settling outside of 10 squares.  HAN, showing that they were going to be aggressive,  was required to forfeit that option.  HAN didn't have to ask for peace, they didn't have to accept the terms once they did.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote mjc2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 21:12
first off this is my personal opinion and has not been aproved by T-SC.  

i have to agree with jejune on this one, i think it should have been a white peace as well, personally i was about to jump out of T-SC to help Han regardless of what others said when i saw what those terms were looking like but when i finally had time to catch up on all the news on the war the treaty was already signed.  as for the counter offer from AJ with the high/BB peace, what is he thinking?  BB offered him great terms, sign the treaty, end the war and rebuild for later, dont force grudges and have some fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote twilights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 20:28
I question larger accounts from outside alliances getting involved...make certain you don't try this tactic in my backyard and it might be time for broken land alliances to start uniting to take protective measures land claim or not...harsh terms..leave the old lands out dated play up north....we got faction play down here..we don't need corrupt play down here! go play amongst yourselves!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Jejune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 19:14
The idea that the peace terms were "light" is a matter of opinion. 

I think the terms were harsh, given the circumstances. This should have been a "white peace" where the alliances agreed to just stop fighting. The reason being is that this war was clearly stopped because of WoT's involvement. Any "damage" that Han caused (which is difficult to even calculate since they were on the losing end of all of the battles from what I can see) should have been balanced out by WoT's few but key additions to Stark, which played a major impact in the outcome of the war (didn't one of its members break Han's last siege?)

Also, putting limits on Han to settle in Stark's DoH, which by definition is meant to not enforce limitation of settling and exodusing players apart from the 10-square rule, is only going to cause more potential animosity.

I don't know who came up with these terms for Stark, but I can't imagine they will bring more peace to Almenly. Seems like it will set the stage for more  animosity.

Again, this was clearly a case for white peace. In my opinion, negotiators made a big mistake demanding any gold and the DoH limitations.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 16:52
Originally posted by The Borg The Borg wrote:

So if I understand this correctly Bimoda. Han cannot move cities into Stark's DoH. Doesn't that make it a land claim then? 
Certainly Not!...lol

The squabble you see here is what has been going on for months between the two leaders (it can be found in previous Illyriad Forum threads). Phoenixfire was indeed the initial aggressor and has, for just as many months been trolling Han, both militarily and diplomatically. I do not particularly care for Constantine's tack in response to the 24 hour a day baiting but it is understandable. I do, however, enjoy watching the likes of ex-Stomps members coming up against it,. Bicker on!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Borg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 15:42
So if I understand this correctly Bimoda. Han cannot move cities into Stark's DoH. Doesn't that make it a land claim then? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bimoda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 15:02
Please, we just settled this war, why stir up a new one in the forums.   If there were issues in the past, leave them in the  past.   If you can't work together, then at least work silently.

Remember, at the time, both of your alliances were land claims.  That by default will mean a higher level of aggression is likely.  This is a game and that is fine if you want it to be part of your experience.  It does not mean that you have to be disrespectful of each other in public forums.

When dealing with the peace between Stark/Stomp and between Han/B|B/Stark I had good, constructive & polite conversations with all parties involved.   So, I know you all can do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phoenixfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 06:22
Ok Constantine. I get it you dont like me. However repeatedly calling me just plain mean isn't the greatest thing you could do at this very moment as you already know.

Also why would we demand your cities? You have taken months to build those and it would be rather cruel of us to demand more from you when we have already destroyed one.

Third, why would we ask for tenfold the gold we did when all we want is for those who lost troops fighting you to be compensated enough to rebuild. The amount we asked wasn't even actually enough to do that as the real number didn't seem fair to me.
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