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Ossian 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 456
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 Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 10:38 |
 hellion19 wrote:
So here I am going to just put a guess out there. In roughly a week the supplies moved to the city will actually be a conspiracy made up by H? in order to extort 250 mil which will go to the 'club a baby seal' foundation. This should work like a charm as long as none of those meddling kids show up  |
Don't bother trying to guess.... Don't bother trying laugh it off ....by comparing it to campaigns to prevent seal culling and don't bother trying introduce anti conspiracy theory techniques to distract from the outright thoughtless aggressive act that it was.
Derazin wrote:
...desputing... |
This word spelt d-i-s-p-u-t-i-n-g. When you get that right then maybe I'll pay more attention to your theories on logic and arguement. Unitl then you are not a qualified H? spin doctor. Go to the botoom of the class and sit next to Lawnie 
Edited by Ossian - 24 Nov 2012 at 10:45
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 10:37 |
Ossian wrote:
I must admit even I didn't forsee this type of action coming from H? and when reading some of the attempts to explain or justify by H? players and supporters, in this thread, I think that some of them will have to admit that they had to tie themselves in verbal knots to do so. |
No, we won't ... personally the only thing I have tied recently is my shoelaces  ...
Seriously though, you have to understand that just because you say something, that doesn't make it so and you have to use something called LOGIC and form an ARGUMENT in order to make what you say actually convincing.
Start by desputing this logic based on the game mechanics and costs :
KillerPoodle wrote:
Darmon - you should also think about the H? troops lost and their gold equiv due to CE prolonging the siege by supplying EE.
Let's say (for example) that H? had an extra 50K crossbowmen (which are cheaper than true shots IIRC) destroyed because CE helped prolong that siege until more Soup Cavalry arrived.
Based on just the market value of the equipment (100K bows and 100K leather armor) the cost to H? was 130million gold.
Then figure in the fact that you cannot buy troops (something Chicken is very keen on pointing out) and the opportunity cost of 50K spears is around 3 months of a heavily bonused barracks production.
still think 250mill is unreasonable?
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And then, maybe, you might make some sense in that proclamation about verbal knots you made ... 
Edited by Deranzin - 24 Nov 2012 at 10:41
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hellion19
Forum Warrior
Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 310
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 10:27 |
So here I am going to just put a guess out there. In roughly a week the supplies moved to the city will actually be a conspiracy made up by H? in order to extort 250 mil which will go to the 'club a baby seal' foundation. This should work like a charm as long as none of those meddling kids show up
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Ossian
Forum Warrior
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 456
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 10:19 |
Poopnug wrote:
H? has demanded the following, lest CE be declared on:
A) Pay 250 million gold to H?
or B) Boot all players in CE, who hold another account in a Consone alliance |
I must admit even I didn't forsee this type of action coming from H? and when reading some of the attempts to explain or justify by H? players and supporters, in this thread, I think that some of them will have to admit that they had to tie themselves in verbal knots to do so.
I understand the strategy that might lie behind this, of course, ie starve your enemy of resources and increase your own - but to do it in such a ham fisted and ugly way will only bring negative consequences..
If power and successful diplomacy are the true measure of success in the eyes of the community then sending mails demanding 2.5 mill on pain of destruction to alliances not directly involved in the war is ... a big fail! Whatever happended to finesse?
- no general notice of delclaration was made to to neutral alliances beforehand;
- no attempt was made to set up alternative markets that might compensate/entice neutrals from trading Consone alliances....
It was clumsy , brutish and undermines any attempt by H? to remove the label of the "Bully Alliance " that others seek to apply to it.
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Southern Dwarf
Forum Warrior
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 281
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 09:11 |
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I traded a load of clay with beer for fun with twilights. According to H? this beer might help me in the war (I shipped it to newbies instead since I do not push the dogma that this is a wargame which is the ultimate goal of H? in my eyes) so the logical conclusion would be a dissolving of their alliance with Dark Empire and a threatening for war against them because I potentially could have build troops with the beer which would account for possible thousands of gold lost. I am waiting . . .
. . . for H? to stop acting silly.
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Also known as Afaslizo ingame.
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Poopnug
New Poster
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 37
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 05:20 |
Update: CE has offered H? 10mil gold in recompense for the van that was intercepted, and 20mil gold for every player that sent res to EE after Nov. 7th, with proper reports of course.
KP has declined the offer, asking that we tally a list of every single person in CE who has sent anything at all to EE since the beginning of the war, and pay 20mil for every single one.
It really is hard to know policies when they are not properly posted. And saying that we "should" know only implies that you know, and we dont. So I dont think that is an adequate argument. There is nothing "official" about this H? policy that I can tell. It is not CEs responsibility to contact H? and ask questions regarding their policies and punishments. I do feel however, that it is H? responsibility to let the Illy community know EXACTLY what their rules of engagement are. Discussions are being handled out of forum at KPs request. Maybe he doesnt want to tack on more fines in gold for CE using a public forum (something I have never seen in my time in Illy,), which is very considerate. Though I wonder why its ok for KP and other H? members to continue posting here, and CE is threatened with action when we respond, twice now. We will contact KP soon for further discussion. Thank you.
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Darmon
Forum Warrior
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 315
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 04:40 |
KillerPoodle wrote:
Darmon - you should also think about the H? troops lost and their gold equiv due to CE prolonging the siege by supplying EE.
Let's say (for example) that H? had an extra 50K crossbowmen (which are cheaper than true shots IIRC) destroyed because CE helped prolong that siege until more Soup Cavalry arrived.
Based on just the market value of the equipment (100K bows and 100K leather armor) the cost to H? was 130million gold.
Then figure in the fact that you cannot buy troops (something Chicken is very keen on pointing out) and the opportunity cost of 50K spears is around 3 months of a heavily bonused barracks production.
still think 250mill is unreasonable?
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I guess that makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to detail it out for me. I consider it a real treat, since it's probably not particularly beneficial to explain things for every neutral/nobody (of which I am both) that comes along. Hopefully it's insightful for other forum-readers baffled by some of the details of this war business (or newer players, or whatever).
Does that mean that the 250 million value that was initially quoted had some basis in the length of particular sieges, as well as the H? (or allied) losses at said sieges? Sometimes when people bring up specific numbers without all the context, they seem like they're out of thin air (though maybe after playing the game long enough, it becomes easier to make rough estimates).
Also, wouldn't that imply that even if CE was on their best behavior (not posting this here) that the number would go up during the course of negotiations (if they dragged on)? Let's imagine that until they made a decision and/or adequate assurances of neutrality were made, there was still the possibility that they could be assisting parties involved in the war.
Or am I missing something by mentally simplifying the number as (X million gold per hour) as a rough approximation of the costs incurred by H? (and allies) to extend the length of sieges? Maybe it's not a good way to think about it, in the particular scenario where *maybe* reinforcements still don't arrive in time to cause extra casualties. But as you point out, there are still opportunity costs, one of which might be having armies tied up in one siege longer than they need to be, which means they aren't somewhere else doing something else (which I suppose could extend the duration of the entire war).
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 04:00 |
Poopnug wrote:
offering us the choice between total destruction or a payment of 250 million gold |
If losing a city or three totally destroys your alliance then it probably wasn't worth much to start.
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 03:59 |
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Darmon - you should also think about the H? troops lost and their gold equiv due to CE prolonging the siege by supplying EE.
Let's say (for example) that H? had an extra 50K crossbowmen (which are cheaper than true shots IIRC) destroyed because CE helped prolong that siege until more Soup Cavalry arrived.
Based on just the market value of the equipment (100K bows and 100K leather armor) the cost to H? was 130million gold.
Then figure in the fact that you cannot buy troops (something Chicken is very keen on pointing out) and the opportunity cost of 50K spears is around 3 months of a heavily bonused barracks production.
still think 250mill is unreasonable?
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Darmon
Forum Warrior
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 315
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Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 01:10 |
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Out of curiosity, if CE gave H? the 250 million gold - in this example, because they do want to stay out of the war - couldn't that money be used for war-related purposes? Seems like financially backing the enemies of your friends is a bad way to stay neutral (but a good way to lose friends).
Edited by Darmon - 24 Nov 2012 at 03:34
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H? Threaten War On CE, Attempt To Extort 250mil
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