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22JUL24 - Military Unit Speed Increases
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Mr. Ubiquitous Feral View Drop Down
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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Points: 425 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mr. Ubiquitous Feral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 11:18
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However, I would like to make these points...

...the lyrics to Ram Jam's song are different to those quoted in GC. Knowing the banned player as someone who often twisted facts to his benefit, I believe the lyrics were changed purposefully in order to bring a reaction.

...having played Illy since June 2010, I've seen the Devs release updates that have radically improved my player experience. Remember the old town map? The introduction of trade hubs and npc's? What about the old dorf stats? I seriously doubt these updates will be game killers.

...concerning the Devs: I see it as if my daughter's friends are over and they're playing in the yard. My daughter may say 'the my little ponies can now run as fast as my cat.' Her friends could be upset but its not their yard. The biggest difference here is that my daughter will and has knocked out a best friend's tooth. Yes, she got in trouble but only because it was her best friend.

I will not miss brian. I'm saddened by the ones who have abandoned but I know they have other games to play. I saw questionable things but not from the Devs.

Respectfully,
Skarr / Ubiquitous Feral
I am a Machine.
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Dungshoveleux View Drop Down
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Points: 1054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Dungshoveleux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2024 at 22:11
Now almost all military units with +50% forced march are equal to or more than the speed of skinners, herbalists, and miners. It means you set the military off to kill or occupy some square and then let the harvesters go in the sure knowledge that unless something spawns/moves that is large enough to kill your military units, then the harvesters are completely safe.  No more hanging about to set our harvesters off in order to prevent them arriving first (and maybe getting slaughtered by 1 npc).
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Solid Techno View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Smopecakes Smopecakes wrote:

Let's say an Orc has 2/3rds kobolds dedicated to defence, mostly for sieges. An Elf has 2/3rds sents but they can be used freely on attack and defence. A Human has 2/3rds cav for attack

For plains the Orc has an average def of 10.1 per upkeep vs my previous mix of attackers. On a 2 month cycle the weapons and upkeep cost with two upkeep buildings is 1000g. The kobolds retrain 180 def on plains vs the mix per hour

The Human has an average atk of 21 per upkeep vs 10.6 def vs cav per upkeep of the 1/3rds kobold/sents/t2 spears mix. Ratio of 2. Costs 1700g per one upkeep with weapons over 2 months. Retrains 381 atk per hour on plains

The Elf has both. You can't credit full value for attack and defence because you're using your units twice then. Maybe since on average you have 50% of the units trained we'll say the Elf is plains siege stacks like the Orc but also has a 50% attack value. You can only use the unit once but the availability of the unit for attack as well has to have a significant value. 10 def per upkeep vs attacker mix. Costs 1,100g per two month cycle per upkeep. Retrains 187 def per hour vs the attacker mix on plains

Well, unexpectedly this is already the same as the kobold for 10% more cost. 10 attack per upkeep vs 11 def vs bows per upkeep for the defensive mix for a .9 ratio. So their attack value is 50% of 50% with half the ratio of the knights. This gives me a "knight value" of 425g (1700g x .25) deducted from their cost per defence for a 675g cost per upkeep for def/atk value. Attack retrains at 96 atk per hour relative to the knights with 2x the ratio

Much better cost and better retraining value vs the kobold if you credit the 50% attack value, and essentially equal on defence grounds on plains if you credit the 50% cav, 30% inf, 20% bow attackers mix. Kobolds are a lot more valuable for def in forest though the sents can attack in forest. I suspect the "one true number" would give sents a reasonable edge across terrains

This is some beautiful math right there. Ends a discussion of balanced sentinel once and for all. How did I not know about this post?

Cav is still quite strong indeed, but the line between it being too weak and too strong is very fine. Little more buff to infantry and cav will become obsolete. In comparison to elven bows it already is obsolete (not counting for elven cav of course). Best idea I have is, to just make cav more expensive to hold and/or produce. This way cav still remains stronger, but production and upkeep costs will start to get tougher and tougher to maintain, what should incentives looking for offensive support in other units.

On top of that a simple nerf speed of elves across the board, including diplos, so they don't make everyone else look weak should solve the problem of imbalance once and for all. Speed advantage of this sort should come at the price of unit strength and production speeds, which is not even remotely the case. Probably only their spears and infantry are the only units that are balanced in terms of speed : strength.

Edited by Solid Techno - 28 Jan 2026 at 17:23
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