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Dakota Strider
Greenhorn
Joined: 03 May 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 62
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 17:18 |
karpintero wrote:
Very well said DS. Very well said.
On the other hand, has Viktor really stopped playing? A part of his profile states that:
"Congratulations H?, You have ruined a good game named Illyriad. as for me I stopped playing, and I have no regrets, apart from the fact that they no longer see the friends of the Valar!"
If this is true, then its sad that such a big player was forced out of the game. |
I will neither confirm or deny if he is still playing, just because there is no need to give the enemy information. However, IF Viktor chooses to leave, I can totally understand his sentiment. I have a feeling Viktor is not the only one that feels the way he so elegantly stated it on his profile. People may want to go read that in game.
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<Squill>
Forum Warrior
Joined: 26 Jun 2011
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 218
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 17:10 |
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Many players will be forced out of the game Karpintero, it's this blatant disregard for the foundation that Illy has adopted that there is such a outcry.
Edited by <Squill> - 28 Sep 2011 at 17:11
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karpintero
Greenhorn
Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 50
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 17:08 |
Very well said DS. Very well said.
On the other hand, has Viktor really stopped playing? A part of his profile states that:
"Congratulations H?, You have ruined a good game named Illyriad. as for me I stopped playing, and I have no regrets, apart from the fact that they no longer see the friends of the Valar!"
If this is true, then its sad that such a big player was forced out of the game.
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<Squill>
Forum Warrior
Joined: 26 Jun 2011
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 218
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 17:06 |
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"nor do I see an outpouring in GC of similar rhetoric." It's not GC who has a grudge vs Valar, it's certain individuals who are always on GC slandering Valar. You don't see me having anything bad to say about Valar. So lets get that straight.
Edited by <Squill> - 28 Sep 2011 at 17:07
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Dakota Strider
Greenhorn
Joined: 03 May 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 62
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 16:44 |
Faya wrote:
* CURSE HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS FOR OVER 6 WEEKS NOW. We didn't JUST get
involved. However, our focus has been the same then AS IT IS NOW! Our
primary objective has, and will remain the removal of Spirit/Roller from
the areas around Curse Cities. Its as simple as that. We
haven't attacked any other VALAR city (ok, maybe we had one person
attack one by accident, etc). But our forces have had one goal,
Spirit/Roller removed from Curse areas. * I will say, we've (Curse
and Valar) had some good battles on that line. They have defended well
on some and others we attacked better. Its been good (so, believe it or
not, there's a compliment to VALAR).
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I cannot disagree with a single thing you said there. Curse and Valar
both fought a war that seemed to be focused on the objective. Curse to
remove a player they believed had wronged them, and Valar protecting a
member they believed was being persecuted for his actions against
people, who also have made it clear for almost 6 months they consider
Valar their enemies as well.
It was a fair fight. Curse had the advantage of distance, and knowing
where they would strike, and relative security knowing that Valar was
not attacking their own cities. Valar's main advantage was that we
seemed to have more players willing to get involved in defending
roller/Spirit than Curse had players willing to attack. Also, many of
roller/Spirit's cities were in good defensive position, making it easier
for us to break sieges, even at a considerable distance. As you said,
compliments to both sides for a well fought campaign.
Faya wrote:
*
I can't speak for the other alliances as to their involvement and their
reasons for declaring.. but I will say this... Curse highly respects
its confederations. We have had confederations with only a few
alliances, one of them being DLords, for a VERY long time. We consider
them very very close allies. So yes, we were officially requested BY
DLords to declare war to show unity on our side. After receiving
that request, the Curse Council discussed it. And it was decided that we
WOULD declare but our focus would remain Spirit/Roller. Sure, we will defend Dlords or another ally of they get attacked. But until we feel Spirit/Roller is no longer within our areas, you WONT see us attacking other VALAR cities unless attacked.. * So we didn't just "JOIN" this war... we just made it official (little easier now that we are "red" to each other as well). But again, Spirit/Roller IS OUR TARGET... we have never hid that nor will we now.
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It is good to know that Curse will not be attacking Valar cities. If
this is the case, there would be no reasons for us to attack Curse
cities. There is still the matter of roller/Spirit, but I will
elaborate more on that later in this response.
Faya wrote:
OTHER POINTS:WAR
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You made some good
points. Some I may have slight disagreement with, but nothing I think
worth mentioning here, they have been discussed enough elsewhere. Just
want you to know I read it, and not taking anything else you say out of
context.
Faya wrote:
DESTRUCTION of VALAR: Does Curse want to see VALAR destroyed? NO! Our
primary goal, again, is Spirit/Roller. We want him COMPLETELY out of
our areas.. no where near ANY of our cities. Pretty simple. Once we are done with Spirit/Roller, will we help destroy all of VALAR? NO
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First of all, we are all glad Curse is maintaining the same focus on the
disagreement that they had with Valar before the war. Of the 5 parties
aligned against us, you have made your position the most clear, and the
most reasonable.
My only point of contention, is the same thing that I have been trying
to make in recent negotiations with your leaders. I will make it public
here, for the first time, since you have stated Curse's position so
well. I have learned some things in these negotiations from a Curse
perspective that I have not heard before, regarding events that led up
to this. And I can see how Curse may believe they were wronged. And
while I will neither absolve roller/Spirit of all guilt in these
matters, I also will not throw him under the bus and say all blame lies
with him.
Whether the community likes it or not, roller/Spirit has now become a
Valar. Which means he is our responsibility. For whatever crimes you
believe he has committed, I think the loss of 4 decent sized cities, and
the reduction in population in many others, should be a high enough
price to pay for these crimes.
You say you want his cities gone from Curse lands. Valar's position is
in total agreement with you in this regard. We all thought we could
start the process more than a month ago. The speed that this game
mechanic becomes available, is out of our control however. As soon as
it is implemented, that process shall begin.
I know Curse wants some assurances that their cities are secure from
roller/Spirit's presence. This is the same thing I have written to your
leaders. If roller/Spirit should attack Curse, or attempt to take
reprisals against Curse, I will make sure that he is thrown out of Valar
and we will attack him ourselves. We have no reason for revenge
against Curse, just as I hope Curse has no reason for revenge against
Valar as a whole. As I said, roller/Spirit is our responsibility now,
and I believe he will follow our directions in this regard. He knows he
is on probation. ((edit This of course holds true if Curse is not at war with us, and not attacking Valar)) But, we do believe people deserve chances to redeem
themselves. And punishment has already been dealt to him in a severe
manner.
Faya wrote:
IF
the war is still going on when we are done with our primary objective,
we WILL help DLords and the others that are against VALAR as long as
there is a need. But I dont think ANYONE wants to see EVERY VALAR city
razed and it to cease being an alliance and the players stop playing.
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I would hope, that if we could resolve our current dispute with you
peacefully, there would be no reason for you to help your confederates
any further. Why they felt the need to call in Curse when they had us
outnumbered 4 to 1 already, is a sign that this is not about fun, as is
one of their prime reasons they supposedly have made as an excuse to
going to war. If I were in Curse's shoes, I would be pragmatic and sit
it out, and let two of the top three alliances go at it with each
other. Your confederate DLords has never been attacked by Valar, and
the only reason they have for being in the war, is because they were
called in by their confederate Harmless? who also was not attacked by
Valar. Curse remaining at war with Valar, if we resolve the
roller/Spirit issue, would make it look like they are at the beck and
call of Harmless? We have not reached that point yet, so I am not
saying that is the accusation.
Faya wrote:
HARMLESS vs VALAR:
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Once again, many good points, nothing serious that I wish to dispute with you in this message.
Faya wrote:
IT'S JUST A GAME PEOPLE!!! ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!! SO, HAVE FUN!!!!
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Trust me, I would like to. Much like yourself, I rarely posted on the
forums, before war was declared on Valar. But feeling the need to be a
voice against the continuous onslaught of slander and misconceptions,
has really drained me. I hope it makes a difference.
((edited for clarity))
Edited by Dakota Strider - 28 Sep 2011 at 17:23
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Sovereign
Greenhorn
Joined: 20 May 2011
Location: TEXAS
Status: Offline
Points: 43
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 15:45 |
Celebcalen wrote:
I found the above post from Faya really amusing because the talk from people in the know seems to center around one question " Who will the H? propaganda machine turn on once they have got the second most powerful alliance out of the way?" and the answer is the next most powerful alliance "Curse" whose reputation is far more contentious than Valar!  |
Well as seems to be the pattern, can I ask the specifics of how our reputation is more contentious? I have not seen pages and pages of accusations or slander in regards to Curse nor do I see an outpouring in GC of similar rhetoric. But if you have more specific examples and especially current ones, I would love to hear them. Or is this more hot air and you simply wanting to create personal animosity as is par for the course it seems? I have supported the stance that their are Valar members for whom I respect. But I have also always stuck by, and you can ask certain Valar members this if you like, that a small minority of their members and also sympathizers are one of the key factors to their bad public relations image. You being one of those. It would not matter how right someone was if you have a handful of people spewing arrogance and causing antagonism at every opportunity. These special few are indeed the diplomatic monkey wrench of Valar. Which is why I have asked myself the following and maybe others have to, why doesn't Valar leadership rein in those who cause their reputation so much damage? Is it poor management or simply that these people, having no self control, simply cannot be reasoned with. If you truly want to help your friends; learn to show a bit more respect to others. It isn't always what you say, but how you say it. Now, I await your flaming and cutting and pasting to take pieces out of context. Thank you for your time,
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~~Sovereign~~
"Dreams are the inspiration for the creation of man-made miracles"
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Wtower
New Poster
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 6
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 12:27 |
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Sorry to jump in the conversation, but indeed sometimes you just can't hold anymore. I find this conversation very amusing, especially when you realise that there have been so many arguments to no specific conclusion.
In my understanding, H? have made a very specific and clear announcement. Valar on the other hand try desperatly to influence the community positively towards their side, relying heavily on negative characterisations against H?. If they had been more discrete and true in their relationships then not only could they attract more allies but most possibly they would also have avoided the war anyway.
The last statement from Celebcalen is the epitome of Valar's conceitedness, the summary of all previous arguments against H?. This person claims that H? are against any immediately smaller alliance that could possibly pose a threat. Had this statement been correct, then H? wouldn't have had to wait 18 months just to go against valar. They would have done so already with other alliances earlier on, which is what valar seem to be doing anyway to climb up the ladder.
Now as Faya says, I probably won't bother replying to this. This is my way I see things. As far as I am concerned, H? never claimed to be perfect or right; I can personally assure you though that, having been in this alliance for quite some time, and knowing their directors a bit, they are people that value justice and long-term relationships, as I believe I am. And they never appreciated the "dark politics" that another alliance earlier on the game have brought into play.
So, with all respect to my fellow valar gamers, stop blaming others. Game on.
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Corwin
Forum Warrior
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Location: Farshards
Status: Offline
Points: 310
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 11:45 |
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thanx faya. Makes things clear. and I totally agree with your last words.
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nightfury
Greenhorn
Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 86
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 11:41 |
Celebcalen wrote:
I found the above post from Faya really amusing because the talk from people in the know seems to centre around one question " Who will the H? propaganda machine turn on once they have got the second most powerful alliance out of the way?" and the answer is the next most powerful alliance "Curse" whose reputation is far more contentious than Valar!  |
H? propaganda machine? where is it? I haven't seen H? players spreading any rumors or making baseless accusations on VALAR. They did gave a statement as why they are at WAR with VALAR and that should not be called propaganda. You may not agree with those reasons but it's a different topic you seems to draw a wrong inference from FAYA's post.
Edited by nightfury - 28 Sep 2011 at 11:53
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Celebcalen
Forum Warrior
Joined: 18 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 288
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 11:23 |
I found the above post from Faya really amusing because the talk from people in the know seems to centre around one question " Who will the H? propaganda machine turn on once they have got the second most powerful alliance out of the way?" and the answer is the next most powerful alliance "Curse" whose reputation is far more contentious than Valar!
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