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Dakota Strider View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 17:18
Originally posted by karpintero karpintero wrote:

Very well said DS. Very well said.

On the other hand, has Viktor really stopped playing? A part of his profile states that:

"Congratulations H?, You have ruined a good game named Illyriad. as for me I stopped playing, and I have no regrets, apart from the fact that they no longer see the friends of the Valar!"

If this is true, then its sad that such a big player was forced out of the game.


I will neither confirm or deny if he is still playing, just because there is no need to give the enemy information.  However, IF Viktor chooses to leave, I can totally understand his sentiment.  I have a feeling Viktor is not the only one that feels the way he so elegantly stated it on his profile.  People may want to go read that in game.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 17:10
  Many players will be forced out of the game Karpintero, it's this blatant disregard for the foundation that Illy has adopted that there is such a outcry.  

Edited by <Squill> - 28 Sep 2011 at 17:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 17:08
Very well said DS. Very well said.

On the other hand, has Viktor really stopped playing? A part of his profile states that:

"Congratulations H?, You have ruined a good game named Illyriad. as for me I stopped playing, and I have no regrets, apart from the fact that they no longer see the friends of the Valar!"

If this is true, then its sad that such a big player was forced out of the game.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 17:06
  "nor do I see an outpouring in GC of similar rhetoric." It's not GC who has a grudge vs Valar, it's certain individuals who are always on GC slandering Valar. You don't see me having anything bad to say about Valar. So lets get that straight.  

Edited by <Squill> - 28 Sep 2011 at 17:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 16:44

Originally posted by Faya Faya wrote:


* CURSE HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS FOR OVER 6 WEEKS NOW.  We didn't JUST get involved.  However, our focus has been the same then AS IT IS NOW! Our primary objective has, and will remain the removal of Spirit/Roller from the areas around Curse Cities. Its as simple as that. We haven't attacked any other VALAR city (ok, maybe we had one person attack one by accident, etc). But our forces have had one goal, Spirit/Roller removed from Curse areas. 
* I will say, we've (Curse and Valar) had some good battles on that line. They have defended well on some  and others we attacked better. Its been good (so, believe it or not, there's a compliment to VALAR).



I cannot disagree with a single thing you said there.  Curse and Valar both fought a war that seemed to be focused on the objective.  Curse to remove a player they believed had wronged them, and Valar protecting a member they believed was being persecuted for his actions against people, who also have made it clear for almost 6 months they consider Valar their enemies as well.

It was a fair fight.  Curse had the advantage of distance, and knowing where they would strike, and  relative security knowing that Valar was not attacking their own cities.  Valar's main advantage was that we seemed to have more players willing to get involved in defending roller/Spirit than Curse had players willing to attack.  Also, many of roller/Spirit's cities were in good defensive position, making it easier for us to break sieges, even at a considerable distance.  As you said, compliments to both sides for a well fought campaign.

Originally posted by Faya Faya wrote:


* I can't speak for the other alliances as to their involvement and their reasons for declaring.. but I will say this... Curse highly respects its confederations. We have had confederations with only a few alliances, one of them being DLords, for a VERY long time. We consider them very very close allies. So yes, we were officially requested BY DLords to declare war to show unity on our side. After receiving that request, the Curse Council discussed it. And it was decided that we WOULD declare but our focus would remain Spirit/Roller. Sure, we will defend Dlords or another ally of they get attacked. But until we feel Spirit/Roller is no longer within our areas, you WONT see us attacking other VALAR cities unless attacked..  
* So we didn't just "JOIN" this war... we just made it official (little easier now that we are "red" to each other as well). But again, Spirit/Roller IS OUR TARGET... we have never hid that nor will we now.


It is good to know that Curse will not be attacking Valar cities.  If this is the case, there would be no reasons for us to attack Curse cities.   There is still the matter of roller/Spirit, but I will elaborate more on that later in this response.

Originally posted by Faya Faya wrote:


OTHER POINTS:
WAR


You made some good points.  Some I may have slight disagreement with, but nothing I think worth mentioning here, they have been discussed enough elsewhere.  Just want you to know I read it, and not taking anything else you say out of context.

Originally posted by Faya Faya wrote:


DESTRUCTION of VALAR:
Does Curse want to see VALAR destroyed?  NO! 
Our primary goal, again, is Spirit/Roller. We want him COMPLETELY out of our areas.. no where near ANY of our cities. Pretty simple. 
Once we are done with Spirit/Roller, will we help destroy all of VALAR?  NO


First of all, we are all glad Curse is maintaining the same focus on the disagreement that they had with Valar before the war.  Of the 5 parties aligned against us, you have made your position the most clear, and the most reasonable. 

My only point of contention, is the same thing that I have been trying to make in recent negotiations with your leaders.  I will make it public here, for the first time, since you have stated Curse's position so well.    I have learned some things in these negotiations from a Curse perspective that I have not heard before, regarding events that led up to this.  And I can see how Curse may believe they were wronged.  And while I will neither absolve roller/Spirit of all guilt in these matters, I also will not throw him under the bus and say all blame lies with him.

Whether the community likes it or not, roller/Spirit has now become a Valar.  Which means he is our responsibility.  For whatever crimes you believe he has committed, I think the loss of 4 decent sized cities, and the reduction in population in many others, should be a high enough price to pay for these crimes.  

You say you want his cities gone from Curse lands.  Valar's position is in total agreement with you in this regard.  We all thought we could start the process more than a month ago.   The speed that this game mechanic becomes available, is out of our control however.  As soon as it is implemented, that process shall begin.

I know Curse wants some assurances that their cities are secure from roller/Spirit's presence.  This is the same thing I have written to your leaders.   If roller/Spirit should attack Curse, or attempt to take reprisals against Curse, I will make sure that he is thrown out of Valar and we will attack him ourselves.  We have no reason for revenge against Curse, just as I hope Curse has no reason for revenge against Valar as a whole.  As I said, roller/Spirit is our responsibility now, and I believe he will follow our directions in this regard.  He knows he is on probation. ((edit  This of course holds true if Curse is not at war with us, and not attacking Valar))    But, we do believe people deserve chances to redeem themselves.  And punishment has already been dealt to him in a severe manner.  

Originally posted by Faya Faya wrote:


IF the war is still going on when we are done with our primary objective, we WILL help DLords and the others that are against VALAR as long as there is a need. But I dont think ANYONE wants to see EVERY VALAR city razed and it to cease being an alliance and the players stop playing.


I would hope, that if we could resolve our current dispute with you peacefully, there would be no reason for you to help your confederates any further.  Why they felt the need to call in Curse when they had us outnumbered 4 to 1 already, is a sign that this is not about fun, as is one of their prime reasons they supposedly have made as an excuse to going to war.  If I were in Curse's shoes, I would be pragmatic and sit it out, and let two of the top three alliances go at it with each other.   Your confederate DLords has never been attacked by Valar, and the only reason they have for being in the war, is because they were called in by their confederate Harmless? who also was not attacked by Valar.  Curse remaining at war with Valar, if we resolve the roller/Spirit issue, would  make it look like they are at the beck and call of Harmless?   We have not reached that point yet, so I am not saying that is the accusation.

Originally posted by Faya Faya wrote:


HARMLESS vs VALAR:


Once again, many good points, nothing serious that I wish to dispute with you in this message.

Originally posted by Faya Faya wrote:


IT'S JUST A GAME PEOPLE!!! ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!! SO, HAVE FUN!!!!
[/QUOTE]

Trust me, I would like to.  Much like yourself, I rarely posted on the forums, before war was declared on Valar.   But feeling the need to be a voice against the continuous onslaught of slander and misconceptions, has really drained me.   I hope it makes a difference.

((edited for clarity))


Edited by Dakota Strider - 28 Sep 2011 at 17:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 15:45
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:



I found the above post from Faya really amusing because the talk from people in the know seems to center around one question " Who will the H? propaganda machine turn on once they have got the second most powerful alliance out of the way?" and the answer is the next most powerful alliance "Curse" whose reputation is far more contentious than Valar!   

Well as seems to be the pattern, can I ask the specifics of how our reputation is more contentious?  I have not seen pages and pages of accusations or slander in regards to Curse nor do I see an outpouring in GC of similar rhetoric.  But if you have more specific examples and especially current ones, I would love to hear them.  Or is this more hot air and you simply wanting to create personal animosity as is par for the course it seems?

I have supported the stance that their are Valar members for whom I respect.  But I have also always stuck by, and you can ask certain Valar members this if you like, that a small minority of their members and also sympathizers are one of the key factors to their bad public relations image.  You being one of those.  It would not matter how right someone was if you have a handful of people spewing arrogance and causing antagonism at every opportunity.  These special few are indeed the diplomatic monkey wrench of Valar. 

Which is why I have asked myself the following and maybe others have to, why doesn't Valar leadership rein in those who cause their reputation so much damage?  Is it poor management or  simply that these people, having no self control, simply cannot be reasoned with.  If you truly want to help your friends; learn to show a bit more respect to others.  It isn't always what you say, but how you say it.

Now, I await your flaming and cutting and pasting to take pieces out of context. 

Thank you for your time,

~~Sovereign~~

"Dreams are the inspiration for the creation of man-made miracles"





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 12:27
Sorry to jump in the conversation, but indeed sometimes you just can't hold anymore. I find this conversation very amusing, especially when you realise that there have been so many arguments to no specific conclusion.

In my understanding, H? have made a very specific and clear announcement. Valar on the other hand try desperatly to influence the community positively towards their side, relying heavily on negative characterisations against H?. If they had been more discrete and true in their relationships then not only could they attract more allies but most possibly they would also have avoided the war anyway.

The last statement from Celebcalen is the epitome of Valar's conceitedness, the summary of all previous arguments against H?. This person claims that H? are against any immediately smaller alliance that could possibly pose a threat. Had this statement been correct, then H? wouldn't have had to wait 18 months just to go against valar. They would have done so already with other alliances earlier on, which is what valar seem to be doing anyway to climb up the ladder.

Now as Faya says, I probably won't bother replying to this. This is my way I see things. As far as I am concerned, H? never claimed to be perfect or right; I can personally assure you though that, having been in this alliance for quite some time, and knowing their directors a bit, they are people that value justice and long-term relationships, as I believe I am. And they never appreciated the "dark politics" that another alliance earlier on the game have brought into play.

So, with all respect to my fellow valar gamers, stop blaming others. Game on.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 11:45
thanx faya. Makes things clear. and I totally agree with your last words.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 11:41
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:





I found the above post from Faya really amusing because the talk from people in the know seems to centre around one question " Who will the H? propaganda machine turn on once they have got the second most powerful alliance out of the way?" and the answer is the next most powerful alliance "Curse" whose reputation is far more contentious than Valar!   


H? propaganda machine? where is it?
I haven't seen H? players spreading any rumors or making baseless accusations on VALAR.
They did gave a statement as why they are at WAR with VALAR and that should not be called propaganda. You may not agree with those reasons but it's a different topic


you seems to draw a wrong inference from FAYA's post.


Edited by nightfury - 28 Sep 2011 at 11:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 11:23




I found the above post from Faya really amusing because the talk from people in the know seems to centre around one question " Who will the H? propaganda machine turn on once they have got the second most powerful alliance out of the way?" and the answer is the next most powerful alliance "Curse" whose reputation is far more contentious than Valar!   
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