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HonoredMule 
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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 Topic: Game Balance: Diplomatic Units
Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 12:42 |
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I object! Because, um...
Hm, I can't think of anything. You know, it's awfully difficult to be contrary when you agree with me. Do you know how hard it is to form a coherent argument against my own reasoning without forming a contradiction?
Jesting aside, that looks perfect.
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
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Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 09:17 |
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Yes, agreeing with HM here.
I don't think the victorious player's specific troop counts should be reported back to the losing side during:
a) a completely failed military engagement,
b) an engagement where only commanders survive,
c) an engagement where the Raid stratagem is used by the attacker
Which should suffice - and actually cuts both ways.
Any objections?
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 03:19 |
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It's a small matter to simply not level up a commander...or to put all upgrade points into defy death. Bottom line is that there are various scenarios where tiny military assaults can thwart even the strongest of efforts into keeping one's activity or status a mystery.
Most other games will not show the enemy's unit counts in when no one comes home and/or when the attacker's forces are a tiny fraction of the defender's. Now that encampments can be scouted, there's no need to allow city defenses/privacy to be overcome in this vaguely "exploity" way.
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GM ThunderCat
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 2157
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Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 00:33 |
 GM ThunderClap wrote:
KillerPoodle wrote:
Also - given that it's reasonably easy to judge from trajectory where a scout is coming from and that by sending one military unit in attack mode I can get a full report on the makeup of an army, what's the point of scouts (aside from cannon fodder against runes)?
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There are up coming changes that should make them more hidden on the map; and sending an army in is clearly a hositle action
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Also Commanders cost (100 + 1000 * level) gold to resurrect - so it could be an expensive way of going about things...
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GM ThunderCat
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 2157
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Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 20:15 |
KillerPoodle wrote:
Also - given that it's reasonably easy to judge from trajectory where a scout is coming from and that by sending one military unit in attack mode I can get a full report on the makeup of an army, what's the point of scouts (aside from cannon fodder against runes)?
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There are up coming changes that should make them more hidden on the map; and sending an army in is clearly a hositle action
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
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Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 19:29 |
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Also - given that it's reasonably easy to judge from trajectory where a scout is coming from and that by sending one military unit in attack mode I can get a full report on the makeup of an army, what's the point of scouts (aside from cannon fodder against runes)?
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 21:29 |
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I think "training manuals" is a poor choice of label. Everyone needs training. How about "notebooks" or "report books?" Scouts and spies need to take careful notes on everything they observe, and the latter must also memorize those details to better blend with their new environment.
And thieves have to...cook the books? Perform tax evasion?
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Tracy Scoggins
New Poster
Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 17:33 |
GM Stormcrow wrote:
BASIC THIEF
- Upkeep increase to 2 Gold Per hour
- Build requirement will increase to 1 Horse and a training manual (1 Book)
- Reduction in Carrying Capacity to 20 Units of Basic Resource and 2 Units of Advanced Resource
ADVANCED THIEVES
- Upkeep increase to 4 Gold Per hour
- Unit Build requirements will now include a saddle and 2 training manuals (2 Books)
- Carrying Capacity will remain the same (50 units) for basic resources, and reduce to 5 Units of Advanced Resources
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! BOOOOOOO! BOOOOOOOOOO! *throws eggs* Next we'll need training manuals to wipe our damned asses too.. BOO! From +something to -62 gold thanks to this -_- -Arb- p.s. BOO! ::edit:: Added some more BOO!
Edited by Tracy Scoggins - 28 Mar 2010 at 17:40
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
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Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 17:13 |
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Item 1 of the Changes to Diplomatic Units has gone through, with one exception.
Saboteur units currently cost no Gold Upkeep whatsoever, until they are turned back "on" and can be used for missions.
We're testing the diplomatic combat algorithm changes at the moment, but don't want to rush this - and want to make sure it provides what we expect it to provide in a wide variety of scenarios.
So, it is unlikely that Saboteurs will be back online today - and to this end we do not believe that paying the increased upkeep is fair or necessary until they become productive units once again.
Once saboteur missions are renabled then the upkeep will start again.
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 00:56 |
GM Stormcrow wrote:
On the magic front, and referencing your earlier post regarding this - combat magic is not based around projected "unit slaying" effects, it is a set of Buffs and Debuffs that can be applied to units in motion and/or static armies that affect their combat abilities.
We're hopeful that - in the same way that Geomancy and Blights are "balanced" schools, providing equal and opposite effects but with other methods of achieving the same corrective effect (such as upgrading a Carpentry) - we can achieve the same with combat magic. Corrective measures are based around either the opposite school applying an inverse action; or an alternative non-magic-based benefit such as a commander skill can balance out the adverse conditions.
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I was actually referring to such spells as "Plague of Locusts" (Destroys a portion of food, livestock and horses at this city) which I have and could use now. If I did, what could anyone do to protect themselves against that, and does the vault protect against such magic effects? If I chose to use it as often as possible on a single target, would the target be required to endure the effects without any counter besides asymmetric pressure? Would they be unable to protect their resources long enough to save the amounts needed for certain building upgrades or other progress?
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Game Balance: Diplomatic Units