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Greenhorn
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: racial characteristics
    Posted: 27 May 2012 at 10:50
Where do our concept of racial traits come from. why for instance are dwarfs antimagic beer guzzlers. Why are elves thought of as blond magic loving tree hugers. And why are orcs war bent, cannibalistic and uneducated. i was wondering if our entire concept of racial traits comes from solely(or almost exclusively) from Tolkien. 

and in your opinion is this stereotyping a good thing? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2012 at 11:53
Such concepts are surely steeped in part in the ancient annals of western civilisation, where myths and fantasies were created to explain away their perceptions of good and evil, and the workings of the natural world inhabited by creatures created in the mind of tribal peoples. These concepts were then perpetuated in medieval times when religion continued to be steeped in the fables and legends of olden times.
Personally, I enjoy the fantasy world of beautiful and gentle elves, war-bent orcs, and all the rest - with the proviso that it is only fantasy, and doesn't spill over into rl. Try as we might, we will always find it nigh impossible to avoid stereotypes, for it helps us to make some sort of order out of the chaos of life.
"Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2012 at 14:38
i find it odd that with the myriad of mythological sources available to western civilization our community seems to have a basic agreed upon persona for each racial class. if we choose the brothers Grim we see that there was little distinction between dwarves and elves, however dwarves were very distinct creatures in Norse mythology such as that from Snorri Sturluson who's poetry formed the basis for many of the germanic middle high German poetry such as the nibelungenlied. and can be seen fairly intact through Richard Wagner's Ring cycles written between 1842 and 1874. these mythological examples have little in common with the English Arthurian  legends which involve more fey and druid like creatures. and of course none of these share the tong and cheek expressions of Shakespeare's depictions. yet it seems that the J.R.R. Tolkien Lord of the Rings characterization is almost unanimous in fantasy circles even over other contemporary authors such as C.S. Lewis.
my basic question is why has the fantasy community latched on to Tolkien mythology and is this a good thing. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2012 at 19:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2012 at 19:49
i dont know much of tolkiens stuff, i place all mine after the Warhammer universe
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2012 at 13:15
Im a tree hugging, beer guzzling, vegetarian ork...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2012 at 23:35
Originally posted by bansisdead bansisdead wrote:

Im a tree hugging, beer guzzling, vegetarian ork...

see that's the kind of diversity i am looking for in my cannon fodder... er friends Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2012 at 13:02
Originally posted by Dew Dew wrote:

i find it odd that with the myriad of mythological sources available to western civilization our community seems to have a basic agreed upon persona for each racial class. ... yet it seems that the J.R.R. Tolkien Lord of the Rings characterization is almost unanimous in fantasy circles even over other contemporary authors such as C.S. Lewis.
my basic question is why has the fantasy community latched on to Tolkien mythology and is this a good thing. 



I don't think that the fantasy community has latched onto "Tolkien mythology" and certainly the Illyriad community has not. Whilst the main playing character's in this game bare similarlity the dwarf;orc;elf;human variations common to many games;books and videos Illyriad culture contains a whole host of diverse beings and species within its own factions. Moreover you will see that origins of the four  "player" species are very difefrent to those of Tolkien or for that matter Warhammer and others.

There are some alliances in this game and quite a few players who have utilised Tolkien's work and influence   out of choice. I am one of them as is the alliance to which I currently belong. I do not see that Tolkien's work  lend itself to racial stereotyping and I refer you to this in support of my view

http://www.uclan.ac.uk/information/services/ldu/research/Tolkien.php

In her  paper Zarkaya Anwar comes to the conclusion that "For Tolkien, on a personal level at least, a perfect world would be one in which all are equal, regardless of Race. Aragorn’s rule (Kocher 1972, 128-129), tells us this, if nothing else."

Edited by Gilthoniel - 31 May 2012 at 10:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2012 at 10:25
My own interpretation of Tolkien is that it is very much based on white chritianity.  There is a god, lluvator, who is the creator, he has a host of angels called ainur (forgive my spelling) who aid him in creating middle earth, some of these ainur (the Valar) go to middle earth and create life (the children of lluvator humans and elves.  Dwarves were adopted kids created by one of the valar and given life by lluvator)) and guide it, one of these Valar named Melkor thinks he should rule this domain, he is a bit bad, corrupts the Valars work, spreads hatred, creates orks and gobos, corrupts maiar (lesser ainur) into balrogs and other evil spirits, hires sauron blah blah.  Minus the sauron, orks and balrogs it sound very much like some of the stories in the bible.
  Tolkiens ideas seem to be based on his own devout religious ideas, I believe.  I would even go as far as to say his concepts are racist, as all the goodies are white, whilst he himself describes the baddie humans as swarthy (of dark complexion)  and then theres the women...I think tolkiens ideas are a reflexion of societies own ingnorance.  Tolkien lovers, pls dont be offended as this is only my opinion, based on his works.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2012 at 21:18
Just three words, Tolkien is Amazing.
�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien
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