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Larry 
Wordsmith
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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 Topic: Personal API Keys
Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 04:58 |
 KillerPoodle wrote:
Larry wrote:
HonoredMule wrote:
Ok, I see.
I wouldn't think anyone would want to advertise battle reports outside their alliance, unless their own losses/survivors were not shown, but rather only the damage they caused. Otherwise, why not just hold an open house for scouts while you're at it? 
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That same argument applies to eve, and yet you see it all of the time. Eve is more time dependent, so the degree / timing of information released would be different. Still its a useful application.
Whether or not there are alliance keys (which make sense) personal ones are still necessary because otherwise you're artificially handicapping the abilities of non-alliance players. And unless you're willing to have every member in your alliance have full access to the key, then only the alliance leader gets any fancy tech toys, which is lame. |
Knowing that someone has just had their entire army smoked is a large intel point which does not have an equivalent in the Eve limited (or full) API - which is why battle reports are much less likely to be widely posted here.
The other browser game I (and many of the Harmless crew) play actually has a gentleman's agreement that posted battle reports are edited to remove location coordinates before posting. Unfortunately even that's not going to work here because the number of cities a player owns is much smaller.
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Fair enough, but Killboards are honestly a pretty insignificant use of API keys anyway, that KB may or may not show up in this game doesn't particularly address the API question.
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
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Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 04:14 |
Larry wrote:
HonoredMule wrote:
Ok, I see.
I wouldn't think anyone would want to advertise battle reports outside their alliance, unless their own losses/survivors were not shown, but rather only the damage they caused. Otherwise, why not just hold an open house for scouts while you're at it?
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That same argument applies to eve, and yet you see it all of the time. Eve is more time dependent, so the degree / timing of information released would be different. Still its a useful application.
Whether or not there are alliance keys (which make sense) personal ones are still necessary because otherwise you're artificially handicapping the abilities of non-alliance players. And unless you're willing to have every member in your alliance have full access to the key, then only the alliance leader gets any fancy tech toys, which is lame. |
Knowing that someone has just had their entire army smoked is a large intel point which does not have an equivalent in the Eve limited (or full) API - which is why battle reports are much less likely to be widely posted here. The other browser game I (and many of the Harmless crew) play actually has a gentleman's agreement that posted battle reports are edited to remove location coordinates before posting. Unfortunately even that's not going to work here because the number of cities a player owns is much smaller.
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Larry
Wordsmith
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 03:50 |
HonoredMule wrote:
Ok, I see.
I wouldn't think anyone would want to advertise battle reports outside their alliance, unless their own losses/survivors were not shown, but rather only the damage they caused. Otherwise, why not just hold an open house for scouts while you're at it?
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That same argument applies to eve, and yet you see it all of the time. Eve is more time dependent, so the degree / timing of information released would be different. Still its a useful application.
Whether or not there are alliance keys (which make sense) personal ones are still necessary because otherwise you're artificially handicapping the abilities of non-alliance players. And unless you're willing to have every member in your alliance have full access to the key, then only the alliance leader gets any fancy tech toys, which is lame.
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 17:55 |
Ok, I see. I wouldn't think anyone would want to advertise battle reports outside their alliance, unless their own losses/survivors were not shown, but rather only the damage they caused. Otherwise, why not just hold an open house for scouts while you're at it?
Edited by HonoredMule - 30 Mar 2010 at 17:55
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3926
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Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 16:04 |
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Well, I think town data is one thing - as it's something you could already get in its entirety from the game interface - but something like combat reports should/would be an opt-in thing.
I think the limited key comes into usefulness if it's something that can't be gained (by a third-party) from the general game interface, but *might* be something you want to publish (in a standalone app / closed-user group / intranet application / public website context).
Edited by GM Stormcrow - 30 Mar 2010 at 16:05
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 15:15 |
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Would the limited public stuff need to be behind a key at all? Or would it be appropriate to broadcast indiscriminately, like the towns data?
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3926
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Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 12:21 |
HonoredMule wrote:
Arrival time would be derivable from unit types and departure time anyway. With regard to information provided to leadership, that could just be a separate report that aggregates the alliance's accounts, made available to specified leadership positions using those individual's personal keys but with a different API call. There's no need for everyone to have their own personal duality of authentication tokens.
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A single key works in an alliance context, for sure. But what if a third-party (non-alliance member) writes an app that uses a player's API key: for example a killboard that everyone (alliances and/or solo-players) could participate in? Hence the necessity for full keys and limited keys, imo. I don't want to put in place a multi-level system with players deciding which keys have access to which datasets - as that'll just get too confusing for everyone and will never be used. I think players will want to be able to say "Yes, I want to participate in this killboard system; but no, I don't want the person who runs it to be able to see my building queue and units present."
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
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Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 15:50 |
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Arrival time would be derivable from unit types and departure time anyway. With regard to information provided to leadership, that could just be a separate report that aggregates the alliance's accounts, made available to specified leadership positions using those individual's personal keys but with a different API call. There's no need for everyone to have their own personal duality of authentication tokens.
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Larry
Wordsmith
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 15:14 |
City dataPopulation Gold income (derivable from the above number anyway) Current tax Location Resources Resources / hour
Units Orders -Destination -unit type(s) -departure time -arrival time would be cool, but it wouldn't surprise me if you object Units present in your city (cities)
With respect to the question of public vs private keys I think the point of the private key is that it is something you would give to your alliance leader for strategic purposes. Thus, it ought include all unit data, and then other publicly available data such as population and location.
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3926
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Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 12:38 |
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My feeling is "yes" to this idea, but limited to only reporting items / actions after they have been resolved in the event queue - and with some delay (3 hours?) added on top.
To be specific, I'm not averse to putting lots of extra data in an API key system, such as the actual contents of a combat report so that people could (eg) write a killboard app. But I am very much against providing data for tools outside of our control that allow people to be alerted out-of-game to events in near-realtime.
I think limited- and full- APIs are a great idea.
If someone can put together a fairly specific list of the items they'd like to see from an API perspective we can then sensibly plan with you guys which ones you think should be full-key and which ones should be limited-key.
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