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Tournament Terrain

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Captain Kindly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Kindly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 00:56
A City building or two to enhance tourney attack or defense would sure make it interesting.
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Tensmoor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 10:14
I've a feeling that the only tiles excluded from the random selection are:
  • Tiles you cannot camp on.
  • Tiles adjacent to Player cities.
  • Sov tiles.
The first one rules out all impassable /forbidden tiles and makes sense since the tournament needs you to be able to camp on the tile to get time.

The second one also makes sense since it would give a massive advantage to that player.

The final one I'm not certain about but I think if an enemy army camps on your sov they can reduce your claim which would then give a big dissadvantage to that player.

This is all guesswork on my part but it does make sense to my braincell.

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Gry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2021 at 23:14
We've not seen tourney tiles land on Buildings. There's a real cav advantage generally, not least as plains are so common. So it would be nice to include them.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2021 at 23:48
I haven't played the new tourneys much, but the previous tourneys used to exclude resource spawn squares (the places where basic resources, gold and food show up such as ruined towers, dolmens, deserted monasteries, etc.). Those spawn squares are the only buildings squares in the game, so a placement mechanism that excludes those squares would exclude buildings squares.
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Tensmoor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 04:54
From the data gathered over the years the terrains that are spawn locations are:
Standing Stones (Plains), Barrow (Small Hill), Abandoned Mineshaft (Large Mountain), Ruined Tower (Buildings), Ancient Forest (Large Forest), Dolmen (Plains), Ice cave (Small Mountain), Ice Holes (Plains), Petrified Forest (Small Forest), Geyser (Plains), Faerie Ring (Plains), Stone Circle (Plains), Mountain Cave (Large Mountain), Pyramids (Buildings), Sphinx (Plains), Obelisk (Plains), Heroic Human Statue (Plains), Blessed Oak (Large Forest), Mausoleum (Buildings), Dark Forest (Large Forest), Ancient Lair (Small Mountain), Abandoned Lodge (Buildings), Deserted Wayhouse (Buildings), Rockhewn Monastery (Buildings), House of the Spirits (Buildings), Forgotten Temple (Buildings), Hidden Temple (Buildings), Place of High Sacrifice (Buildings), Crooked House (Buildings), Deserted Monastery (Buildings), Gypsy Campsite (Plains), Abandoned Campsite (Plains), Abandoned Lair (Buildings), Ancient Graveyard (Buildings), Broken Tower (Buildings), Dormant Portal (Buildings), Fallen Dwarfhold (Buildings), Fortified Hostel (Buildings), Lawstones (Buildings), Sacrificial Altar (Buildings), Tiki Pole (Small Forest), Weeping Willow (Small Forest), Crumbling Lighthouse (Buildings), Fisherman's Hut (Buildings), Ferry Post (Buildings), Head Statue (Buildings), Jungle Standing Stones (Buildings), Shattered Head (Buildings)
But not every tile with one of those terrain types will be a spawn loc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 21:32
Bump! Approximately Half of all tourney tiles this month are Plains squares. The cav advantage is imbalanced. Discouraging troop diversity limits strategy, and makes combat less interesting overall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2022 at 08:05
Hi everyone,

As Tensmoor has indicated in his post above, buildings squares are indeed considered as spawn locations, and have been assigned in the past.

The server tournament square rotation assignment is from a Random Number Generator (RNG), with an exclusion list (eg not sov, not impassable, not a hub, not water, not a town etc).  

The fact is simply that there are a lot more plains squares on the map than any other type, so when the RNG runs, it's more likely that there will be plains squares than other types.

I *guess* we could put our hands on the scales of the RNG to get a more diverse square type selection, but the idea makes me a bit uneasy...  

Our RNG has always been independent of weighting influence, however it's possible that we could implement the idea of quotas (eg random assignment but roll until X Plains, Y Hills, Z Buildings etc).  Or we could say that "whatever the combat terrain type was last time (for this region), make it different this time".

I'd be interested to hear thoughts and/or alternative suggestions, though.  We certainly want to keep tournie combat interesting.

SC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2022 at 12:10
I'm just in the process of updating the Terrain By Region page on IllyStuff to also give a breakdown of the combat terrains for the selected region. I'm also updating the list of regions to reflect that nearly all of the regions with no name now have no tiles allocated to them.

Just a quickie for SC - there are still 2 tiles on the world map that don't belong to a named region. http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-954/-2666 & http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-954/-2665 They are the little island over near the west edge of the map level(ish) with the top edge of Kingslands. They currently are allocated to region id 60.

On the changes to the RNG - setting it to select a set number of plains, hills etc could be problematic if say the number of plains tiles is reached but the region currently being set is nearly all plains. Checking to make sure a region has a different cbt terrain selected from last time sounds like a more workable option to me but since I don't play any more I don't really have any say on it Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nubcake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2022 at 19:39
i like the idea of maybe doing a change terrain from last but is that just going to rotate it on the tile meaning one time is plains next something different then next back to plains? im no programmer so i have no idea if rng would keep it mixed. The idea of setting x number of a terrain before its stopped for other terrain sounds viable but rng would have to imho be truly random as in has to start picking randomly on regions so that it would not just do such and such of a terrain every time in certain areas hope that makes sense and hope that a method thats fair can be found. Im a human player so i love my cav but overall the current systems imbalance is not attractive to much of the player base that takes part in tournaments.
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GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2022 at 19:41
Heyya Tens,

Good lord, yes!

That island has no region, and the current occupant (freeman of [HECU]) clearly has a prime spot!  

I will speak with our loremaster and we will work out where we think those tiles should belong, in terms of NPC Faction regional claim.

On the RNG front... the problem with making sure a terrain is always different from the last (in a region) means that (over time, with reversion to the mean) we'll pretty much well end up with a perfect balance (across regions) between all the terrain types: plains/hills/mountains/buildings etc throughout the entire map for every tournament - despite the fact that there are many more plains than hills etc.  

I think I need to come up with a different algorithmic approach to the whole assignment procedure - one that respects the randomness, but also takes into account regional terrain variances, and also looks after a global picture that isn't quite so cavalry-centric (coz, y'know, lots of plains!)

I just can't work out what that ideal formula is right now, unless it's a hand-on-the-scale-type thing :)

Best,

SC


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