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KenRychard View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 21:17
   As a veteran of a brief small war in which two of our OPPONENTS cities were raised, Id like to make a proposal for a change in the game structure which I believe would enhance the game for both the players and the developers.

   When a city is razed, it is lost. Including all the time spent on research which in this game can mean months and YEARS of a players time. When a player suffers a devastating loss of multiple cities, the result is often account abandonment.  I don't believe this is good for the game.

   SO my proposal is that when a city is razed, it be treated much like a dead commander. Its research levels remain intact, like a commanders level and skills. And when the player has enough population to settle a new town, he can REsettle a razed old town.  Rebuilding this town then is not a question of the time involved in recompleting all the research, but only of rebuilding the structures from scratch.

    By spending a little money on prestige, and getting a little help from friends on resources, a player could have a city back in play in much less time.

   I believe this is a win win proposal for both players and developers. For developers, it creates a greater market for prestige, which funds their continued endeavors in the game world.

   For players, it makes losses in war less devastating, and rebirth from those losses more possible. Currently, wars fought in Illyriad involve a LOT of bad blood and personal conflict. We need to put GAME back into WARGAME and make warfare more fun. Make it something friends, or respectful enemies can engage in without the over aggressive posturing and outright HATE that seems to dominate GC and warfare.

   We should be playing this game like the old days when friends or strangers got together in the backroom of the game shop on Saturday night to refight Gettsburg, or Panzer Blitz, and win or lose would come back again the next weekend. NOT like this game is now, where players try to devastate their opponents and "send them back to the newbie ring" in the hopes of driving them to abandon...

   We can turn this into a fun game with wars raging worldwide between friends and enemies, AND put a few more dollars in the developers pockets as razed cities are reborn and rebuilt.

                                                               Respectfully, KenRychard of TUF
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 7116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 22:00
I am all for reducing bad blood in war, but it seems like this proposal could be easily exploited; for example, a person could repeatedly let a city that respawned with all the research be captured by other players.  The devs already had to eliminated the completed research for people who were newb ringed because of that problem.
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Bach View Drop Down
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I wish I could down-vote Rills opinion here because I am about to leave the game because of this mechanic. It needs to be changed.

If someone captures a city, they get the buildings but no research.
If i get razed or make a new city, I keep my research.

As is, research can take 3 years, it is not bound to the player and protection is a social thing. The game-system allows complete wipe-outs and it appears that only mega-ultra-icons of the game are in favor of this horror.

Being new, I have had a taste of the friendliness and generosity of people living in what someone, in reference to candite's pangloss, called "the best of all possible worlds". Thats fun, its nice, its social .. but if the cuddling happens above an abyss where most can loose everything at any time, then, uh, its not for me.

If one spends money one can get back up via prestige, but with the research not carrying over, hah, no.  So let me repeat, KenRychard speaks to the problem because he can still see it. Rill can no longer see the problem and justifies it. This is how the Dinosaurs went extinct.

The proper solution ... which one might only be able to see with less investment in the status quo, that is not having invested 10+ * 3 years of real-time grooming fantastic places, is

** If someone captures a city, they get the buildings but no research.
** If i get razed or make a new city, I keep my research.

this is simple & fair.  if it ever makes it into the game, then I'll be back. I can't stay in a place so disrespectful of my time and attention.
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Angrim View Drop Down
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Points: 1212 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 15:37
Originally posted by Bach Bach wrote:

If someone captures a city, they get the buildings but no research.
If i get razed or make a new city, I keep my research.
that research is associated with a city rather than with a player is, i think, one of the more counterintuitive features of the game. i'm not attached to the current mechanic, but there are a few things to consider about it.
  1. making changes to the game because you fear loss is, trying to put this delicately, mentally unhealthy. but beyond that, the threat of loss makes illyriad different from, using the popular example, farmville. thinking about the things one buys with prestige as if they were permanent is foolish. prestige is purchased and consumed to affect an ongoing process, and you can no more credibly complain about having "lost" the product of it than you can complain to the fishmonger about the "loss" of the fish you ate last week. you had the use of it; be content. a part of the challenge of illyriad is holding what you have. not everyone manages it. if they did, there would be no risk of failure and we may as well be dressing dolls.
  2. moving these durable achievements to the player rather than associating them with the city does not affect much the balance of power in the game (older players rule because they have done the research, newer players are at a disadvantage). it does, however, inhibit the transfer of capability to incoming players by alliances, which typically help players acquire new cities via resources and, often, capture. if research is associated with the player, it becomes nontransferable in a way it is not today, which would seem to put new players at a disadvantage relative to the current situation.
  3. recall that the existing practice of research belonging to the city works both ways. you seem to have considered only the potential for loss, but there is an equal potential for gain. there are many abandoned cities, some unwatched, many shepherded by existing alliances, ripe for capture with most or all research completed. the recovery even from being "newb-ringed" (and this is, as a matter of history, very rare here), has been managed by several players. it would be an arduous task alone, but all great things in illyriad require assistance from other friendly accounts.
  4. what you describe is a major change to the game, and many more compelling suggestions involving less work have been steadfastly ignored by the devs for some time. as a practical matter, if your enjoyment of the game hinges on having this change, i would advise you, reluctantly, to move on.
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Gragnog View Drop Down
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If you are so scared about losing your city there is a simple solution, DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN CONFLICT. Only players who want to be in wars are in wars. If you do not like the thought of war join one of the majority of alliances who are peaceful. No need to change the game for a few.
Kaggen is my human half
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 7116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 18:33
As others have said, currently the most effective way for new players to "catch up" to established players is to capture cities with research completed.  Eliminating this possibility would only benefit dinosaurs such as myself; it would be a detriment to new players.

As I commented in another thread, I think the most effective way to deal with the exploit of repeatedly capturing respawned 0-population cities in order to gain the research would be to create a condition under which a player's last city can only be razed and never captured.  Then the respawned 0-population city could safely carry over the completed research from the last city, because it could not be captured but only razed, eliminating the potential for repeatedly capturing the same 0-population city.  I think if the developers do decide to make a change to restore research carry-over, this would be the most effective in preventing exploits without substantially disrupting game mechanics that benefit new players by allowing them to capture cities with completed research.

By the way, I am tickled to have passed from newb to dinosaur status; I do rather wish that at some time I could have been a "vet" though, as I remember respecting and admiring the Illy vets as a newb.  Alas, it seems I have skipped over it entirely.
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Brandmeister View Drop Down
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 19:24
Once upon a time, I settled my second city. And then I never did it that way again. The End.
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Dungshoveleux View Drop Down
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The danger of war is what marks out Illyriad as different.  The danger is there precisely in order to dissuade people from going to war in the first place.
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BARQ View Drop Down
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Points: 77 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARQ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 06:38
Come on friends its a game not ur complete life so just enjoy it no matter what u achieve and loss its just a game . so enjoy it in a way u like but don't take it too serious or u may get a heart attack after lossing ur 4-5 cities
so just Chill and Enjoy
I m the most scarring dream of your life
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