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Faction Play: SiegeQuest 1 - OCT 7, 2020

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeliciousJosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2020 at 18:30
I am not sure what is to be expected in a new scenario like this. With that said I was also under the impression that things should be played in a slow and non-elitist kind of approach. That went down the drain in Elgea.
I still think Eowan is an important figure in this and maybe wanted to prove something. To me he proved that sieging Eowan is hard. 
I think a learning curve has occurred and maybe some salt will spice things up a bit, even thougg we have plenty of that in the metagame already :))

Moving forward now is the thing to do imo.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OssianII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 10:01
Faction play is a bright way to play this game. All credit to Jejune for the effort he has put in to launching it! We all know that Ego's have always been a part of game-play in Illyriad. I know this from my own personal experience.  Jejune's initiative  was always going to produce varying opinions on conduct of play. Hopefully the various parties can solve any variations in opinions  in the spirit  intended when "faction play" was promoted. Eowan has contributed a lot to Illy and also "faction play"  I hope that he and Orcs rejoin the group. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 17:31
Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

Sorry for the late reply, i just read Eowans message. In my opinion it is important though to call out Eowan on some of the things he does.

I really do not get what you were trying to do. The first SiegeQuest was supposed to be a test who wants to participate and to see how it works out. The player faction play is a new concept that was not really tested. So why not start slow, see how it works out and then step up? Why not give us a terra to siege and see how that works?

Instead you skipped the "start slow", "test the rules and participation" and went into full "advanced PVP strategy" with a new and untested concept? Why?

I do like the idea of using terras to make the siege harder. I do think people should use/try that (or similar stuff) later on. But not on the first one.

A lot of people where looking forward to the siege. Some of our players put a lot of work into it. All gone to waste because of Eowan. And for what?

In my opinion Eowan really screwed up.

That said, thanks a lot Jejune and team, you are doing an amazing job.

This whole thing was a mess. The rules that I agreed to were not the ones posted here on the forums by Jejune- the ones I agreed to explicitly did not exempt siege engines from xp caps, and draught horses were the only exemption from the equipment ban.

These are relatively minor changes to the rules, but they do allow for strategies such as siege trains, a strategy that Dlord were apparently intending to use.

The thing that actually caused me to withdraw was cheating by Dlords/SkB.

As a result of my entirely legal decision to use advanced pvp strategy Dlord/SkB decided to ignore the rules and start using armies well above the cap.

The first of these was a siege by Ubluntu on one of the terra towns using 30k stalwarts. These had an XP value of 90k, more than 3x the size of allowed siege armies under the rules. Duran had threatened to break the rules when he saw that I was using terras, so I decided at that point to withdraw rather than allow an already messy situation to escalate.

Of the armies that hit my towns as attacks after withdrawal, all of them were above the cap. Most were in the range of 6-9k xp values, though one from Ubluntu again had an xp value of 150k (50k stalwarts). 

Now, did the terras make things more difficult? Of course. But then I think as the defender it is my job to make things difficult. They were perfectly siegable; the terrain around my towns may be plains, but there were building tiles and more 2 squares out. As Dlords does have the advantage of numbers and nearly a decade of political ties, I felt that to make the siege quest at all interesting, I'd have to pull something unorthodox.

So, to sum up, there was crap going on on all fronts. Of these, I'd say that my use of terras was probably the least problematic. I chose initially to make the forum posts more focused on the terras because it seemed like a good way to explain things without raising too many doubts as to the sustainability of faction play. However, if I'm going to be called out, I will explain myself.

To be clear, I still feel like faction play definitely can work, however it does need a better framework for organising inter-factional pvp.



Edited by eowan the short - 12 Oct 2020 at 17:33
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 18:04
Originally posted by OssianII OssianII wrote:

Faction play is a bright way to play this game. All credit to Jejune for the effort he has put in to launching it! We all know that Ego's have always been a part of game-play in Illyriad. I know this from my own personal experience.  Jejune's initiative  was always going to produce varying opinions on conduct of play. Hopefully the various parties can solve any variations in opinions  in the spirit  intended when "faction play" was promoted. Eowan has contributed a lot to Illy and also "faction play"  I hope that he and Orcs rejoin the group. 

We definitely do intend to rejoin but, due to the issues mentioned in my previous post, this will not be until there is a proper framework in place and we're large enough we can enforce rules through military intervention if necessary.
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhound01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 18:41
i have something to say aswell.


Moo


that is all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 18:52
Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

This whole thing was a mess. The rules that I agreed to were not the ones posted here on the forums by Jejune- the ones I agreed to explicitly did not exempt siege engines from xp caps, and draught horses were the only exemption from the equipment ban.

These are relatively minor changes to the rules, but they do allow for strategies such as siege trains, a strategy that Dlord were apparently intending to use.

The thing that actually caused me to withdraw was cheating by Dlords/SkB.

As a result of my entirely legal decision to use advanced pvp strategy Dlord/SkB decided to ignore the rules and start using armies well above the cap.

The first of these was a siege by Ubluntu on one of the terra towns using 30k stalwarts. These had an XP value of 90k, more than 3x the size of allowed siege armies under the rules. Duran had threatened to break the rules when he saw that I was using terras, so I decided at that point to withdraw rather than allow an already messy situation to escalate.

Of the armies that hit my towns as attacks after withdrawal, all of them were above the cap. Most were in the range of 6-9k xp values, though one from Ubluntu again had an xp value of 150k (50k stalwarts). 

Now, did the terras make things more difficult? Of course. But then I think as the defender it is my job to make things difficult. They were perfectly siegable; the terrain around my towns may be plains, but there were building tiles and more 2 squares out. As Dlords does have the advantage of numbers and nearly a decade of political ties, I felt that to make the siege quest at all interesting, I'd have to pull something unorthodox.

So, to sum up, there was crap going on on all fronts. Of these, I'd say that my use of terras was probably the least problematic. I chose initially to make the forum posts more focused on the terras because it seemed like a good way to explain things without raising too many doubts as to the sustainability of faction play. However, if I'm going to be called out, I will explain myself.

To be clear, I still feel like faction play definitely can work, however it does need a better framework for organising inter-factional pvp.


Can you please read my post again and answer the question i was asking instead of answering a question i did not ask?

I do get why you pulled out. I do not get why you used advanced strategies in a first "training exercise" that escalated things.


Edited by Thirion - 12 Oct 2020 at 18:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 19:14
Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

As Dlords does have the advantage of numbers and nearly a decade of political ties, I felt that to make the siege quest at all interesting, I'd have to pull something unorthodox.


Can you please read my post again and answer the question i was asking instead of answering a question i did not ask?

I do get why you pulled out. I do not get why you used advanced strategies in a first "training exercise" that escalated things.

To explain the above further, how much fun would it be if there were 6 sieges, 2 blockades, and the siege was over in less than 2 days? Unless people were involved for entirely the wrong reasons, the fun comes from facing a challenge and overcoming it. I had to deal with the numbers issue that was facing me, and the use of advanced strategies was key to that, otherwise it would have been very boring. It could easily have become a very interesting series of sieges where slowly the meatshields were whittled away. A long term event like that could easily have drawn more people in, increasing participation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhound01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 20:13
concurs with several above moo moo's


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 21:27
Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

To explain the above further, how much fun would it be if there were 6 sieges, 2 blockades, and the siege was over in less than 2 days? Unless people were involved for entirely the wrong reasons, the fun comes from facing a challenge and overcoming it. I had to deal with the numbers issue that was facing me, and the use of advanced strategies was key to that, otherwise it would have been very boring. It could easily have become a very interesting series of sieges where slowly the meatshields were whittled away. A long term event like that could easily have drawn more people in, increasing participation.


And why not do that in a SiegeQuest 2 when some of the "starting pains" are solved? Its not like Illy is a fast game and we have limited time. Its not like you gain something huge using the advanced strategies in the first one instead of later ones.

In my opinion what you did was a gamble that was never worth it. A lot of risk and not really a reason to take that risk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 21:59
It shouldn't have been a gamble. I stuck to the rules, and I expected others to do the same. Instead Dlord/SkB decided to escalate this beyond the bounds of the siege quest. I did offer Duran a withdrawal when he pced me about it. This would have allowed time to deal with the issue before relaunching the quest once that was resolved.

Which brings me to a question I'd like to ask of you. Why are you calling me out, while praising those who broke the rules / changed the rules without my consent? 
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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