Examining "the 10 Square Rule" as a cause of war

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   I think that the 10 square rule has been the root cause of a lot of anxiety in this game.  I think that the few who will never allow a player to settle within 10 squares are not as few as you might think and even 2 years ago they already had 10 cities.  While Elgea is a much larger map than say a game like Evony, there are limited spaces upon which to place a new city which give a nice balance of sov space to have an efficient game with.  Though I must admit the recent rash of city razings has opened up a lot of space; I just don't think it should be like that; that older players be broken down so that new players can get a chance.  I think that people should definitely be communicating more in this game and that being a good neighbor is important so that all of us can enjoy the time we take here.   I do however maintain that the 10 square rule is a source of issue & needs to be examined as to how a good number of players handle it bey either not answering  or just flat out saying no, when they don't even build past 3 squares and the cities are nearly 3 years old now.  That said I ALWAYS write a player within 10 squares and always tell them I am up for negotiation...many other alliances have NOT done this for me & simply taken up where their alliance rules say they are allowed and bully me into accepting them...not really fair...this needs to change.

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Jenin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Poster Joined: 16 Dec 2011 Location: Philadelphia Status: Offline Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jenin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Mar 2014 at 21:04
	I think that the 10 square rule has been the root cause of a lot of anxiety in this game. I think that the few who will never allow a player to settle within 10 squares are not as few as you might think and even 2 years ago they already had 10 cities. While Elgea is a much larger map than say a game like Evony, there are limited spaces upon which to place a new city which give a nice balance of sov space to have an efficient game with. Though I must admit the recent rash of city razings has opened up a lot of space; I just don't think it should be like that; that older players be broken down so that new players can get a chance. I think that people should definitely be communicating more in this game and that being a good neighbor is important so that all of us can enjoy the time we take here. I do however maintain that the 10 square rule is a source of issue & needs to be examined as to how a good number of players handle it bey either not answering or just flat out saying no, when they don't even build past 3 squares and the cities are nearly 3 years old now. That said I ALWAYS write a player within 10 squares and always tell them I am up for negotiation...many other alliances have NOT done this for me & simply taken up where their alliance rules say they are allowed and bully me into accepting them...not really fair...this needs to change.

Myzel Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Wordsmith Joined: 19 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 101	Post Options Post Reply Quote Myzel Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Mar 2014 at 20:36
	Like Angrim I don't see in your post how the '10 square rule' is causing any grief. Sure, there are a few alliances that deny anyone from settling within their holy 10-sq radius. Individual players, on the other hand, are often reasonable people. Many, including me, will allow players to settle closer if they have the courtesy to ask. I think this group is far larger than the group who denies new neighbours, so I think to say it's 'squeezing newbs for land' is stretching it a bit. I think having this 'rule' is useful even if we don't follow it strictly. It fosters some diplomatic care. What we don't want, after all, is players planting their cities wherever without even contacting other nearby players. An unpleasant neighbour can really impact your game, so it's good to have some control over who moves near you.

Angrim Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postmaster General Joined: 02 Nov 2011 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 1173	Post Options Post Reply Quote Angrim Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Mar 2014 at 19:10
	could the OP be clarified to state what war the 10-square rule is accused of causing? there are territorial disputes in play in the current war and some alliances have taken the opportunity to expand their holdings thereby, but the idea that the 10-square rule is a motivating cause of this war seems to me a great stretch from the facts i know.

Jenin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Poster Joined: 16 Dec 2011 Location: Philadelphia Status: Offline Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jenin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Mar 2014 at 19:05
	By request (to start a new thread): From the other forum posting on this topic (at http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/a-short-treatise-on-the-early-history-of-illyriad_topic5454_page1.html) I spent quite a bit of time reading a lot of partial facts and attempts to clarify the conflicts which have come to a head over NC. Mind you as a victim of their "play"; I can lend a bit of perspective with that regard; but I found that Halcyon pretty much summed it up: "22 Feb 2014 at 09:25 Before the war Dark and Harmless were still allies and we conveyed to H? leadership our unwillingness to stand by while NC continued their campaign of aggression. The answer was always the same: any action against NC will result in full support to them by H? and The Coalition. When H? leadership declared war on EE they did so in support of NC and TVM and were beginning to make good upon that promise/threat. They actively supported NC and TVM aggression and have no real cause to claim the high moral ground. They expected to win this war as they did all those who came before it. They were wrong. While Illyriad and Elgea will be poorer without H?, NC, TVM and Dlords, if these alliances remain active after the war, they surely need to consider a major change in leadership. Arrogance fueled by past victories led them into very poor choices. They were not the benevolent rulers who HM is attempting to paint them." Frankly I was contacted by Janosh in the early days of the confederation and while in charge of diplomacy in OCON, had grave misgivings as to the unwillingness of both to modernize their stance over the 10 square rule; which even as early as January of 2012 was squeezing new players excessively over land that would never be used; and therefore turned overtures by both down. Because of abuse by newbs of training alliances of larger ones and the aggression by non-allied farm accounts of both; we had to take a strong stand as well in our training alliance Plantagenet. I think that we can trace the whole of this current conflagration to the greed over the new special resources as well as the 10 space rule. Both represent a mentality of "I was here 1st and do not have to share" & I think we need to temper that a bit. I think the 10 square rule should be reduced to 8 & we cease this scorched earth policy which began with Black & continued with the likes of players once or now contained in the alliance NC. That NS (their training alli) cheers them on so often and actively participated in the dog pile on SirRazer at the start of the NC-BANE war is still troubling; as is the frequency of training alliance leaders forgetting to educate their players in basic diplomacy, such as ask first and don't attack ANY player for ANY reason without permission. We have a lot to do to keep this a fully newb friendly game (which is why I and many of my alli-mates are still here 2+ years after becoming an Evony SS66 refugees). I am still extremely proud to be an Illy player, but have to admit seeing GC denigrate to the likes of Evony was sad - no way I could have my grandson be playing here with me seeing that stuff. I am glad that is turning around a bit, but the forums still have plenty of that vitriol. Let's come to terms with the major irritants that keep fueling war, why don't we? The 10 square rule needs to be the first to be examined in my opinion.... I'd like to see replies to this post and some thoughts on what the irritants have been, not who said what, please?