| Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
Magnificence
Wordsmith
Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 122
|
Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 07:27 |
I will not be eating my hat today good people.
Is The_Dude a dwarf?
|
 |
Diomedes
Forum Warrior
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 208
|
Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 07:38 |
It takes a big and magnanimous dwarf to move beyond stubbornness and accept the will of others. Congrats Epi and Crows on the outcome.... but if I'd realised that copious amounts of beer were involved, I would've joined the party
|
|
"Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land"
|
 |
Ossian
Forum Warrior
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 456
|
Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 10:13 |
Heh. Never bet against a dwarf eh lad? 
|
 |
HonoredMule
Postmaster General
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
|
Posted: 08 Mar 2013 at 07:51 |
Angrim wrote:
the first i heard of it outside of the game mechanic was from H?, though whether or not they were drunk at the time of the forum post, i couldn't say. (i'll wager that H? is equally dangerous drunk or sober, so i'm not sure the question is material.) |
When we first adopted the policy (and I do believe we were first to do so though I could be mistaken), we took into consideration the typical amount of space needed for a fully-developed city under the game mechanics as they were at the time, and added some breathing room for creative developmental approaches and/or reasonable predictions on future expansions enabled by the feature creep. Then we rounded a little further to a nice round number which also increased the odds of retaining a little neutral ground--or at least preventing 2 cities exercising competent economics from wanting the same overly-distant tile regardless of typical unique values. Finally, the rule itself we tempered with good-neighborly sensibility by making it an "ask first" policy rather than a blanket hold on territory. When you sell a city's potential short, you can't just start up another one and keep expanding your empire. It's either settle for what you've got and fall permanently behind the curve, go through the agony of relocation (possibly for your whole account) all over again, and/or fight with good neighbors over borderline territory of increasing value and importance. To us, it just made good sense for everyone involved that we use a standard which promises to satisfy long-term needs. Based on developments so far, 8 squares might have been sufficient to date--but just barely, and things can still change. I bet many like me are very happy to still have a little room to grow without becoming bad neighbors.
|
|
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now." - HonoredMule
|
 |
Auraya
Postmaster
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 523
|
Posted: 08 Mar 2013 at 11:46 |
|
Providing the neighbours are friendly and there's ample food sov available, 6 squares isn't usually a problem in my experience. I realise I haven't yet reached my 'full' potential but I doubt I will permanently ever need to sov outside 3 squares. Where I have done so, it is always a temporary fix to redress a balance I have poorly calculated. The rp/food balance means taking a full 20 squares is not practical and will require a lower tax rate for many.
To that end, placing your own cities or alliance cities 6 squares away rather than 10 squares is actually more beneficial, providing the food sov is high enough to maximise taxes. In an ever more densely populated world, keeping closer together will also reduce wasted map space. Too often, I see excellent city locations which are unoccupied because of poor city placement by others. For instance, to gain +1 food sov, a city was placed in the middle of 4 excellent food tiles.. Rendering both a 12 and 11 food sov tile useless through greed. 2 cities could easily have been placed in that space. No wonder we are struggling to find decent spots for our villages!
|
 |
Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118
|
Posted: 08 Mar 2013 at 13:48 |
Quick comment on the settle radius:
The usefulness of an area cannot be determined by simple rules, so I don't work by the rule. Instead I evaluate each case, and tell others to do the same. This takes into account other players' preferences, and opens dialogue where there is doubt.
I would regard a clear sovereign territory of 2.3 radius to be a basic 'entitlement', which implies a 5 square separation from others. Any further out, the individual squares' bonuses need to be considered: there might be no squares within 10 radius that are of use, and indeed there might be some as far as 30 out that are economically useful... but we can't make a general rule to cover those cases, so I regard player-declared settlement rules as guidance only.
|
|
|
 |
Elmindra
Forum Warrior
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 464
|
Posted: 08 Mar 2013 at 14:50 |
I am fond of math regarding my SOV. Most good food sov is 10-20 food. At a distance of 3 sqrs, a 15food dolmen is equal to a 5food square at 1 distance. At a distance of 4 sqrs, a 20food dolmen (very rare) is equal to a 5food square at 1 distance. Using this, very rarely is it worthwhile to claim and use sov at a distance greater than 3 sqrs and even that is most of the time inefficient. The most efficient sov layout is only 2.3 sqrs away, therefore either you suck at city placement or you don't really understand the math involved if you are using sov structures greater than 3-4 sqrs away.
That being said, I prefer a little breathing room for future city expansion rather than sov. I have had a few people ask if they could settle closer than 10, and in all but one case I said yes. In the case in which I said no, I simply suggested a different location still within a 10sqr radius of my towns since I had planned to settle a new town at the previous location.
|
|
|
 |
Daufer
Forum Warrior
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
|
Posted: 08 Mar 2013 at 15:58 |
Elmindra wrote:
The most efficient sov layout is only 2.3 sqrs away, therefore either you suck at city placement or you don't really understand the math involved if you are using sov structures greater than 3-4 sqrs away.
|
I would amend this slightly. It's a fact if all you are interested in is food sov, but there are sometimes other things to consider. Let's say you are in a war, your armies are shattered, and your best hope for survival is to replace them as fast as possible. You have claimed the nearest 20 squares and you are building cavalry desperately. All your squares are 5% cavalry, but 4-6 squares away there are four 8% cav squares.
At that point you may as well say screw efficiency, drop four of your local sov squares and claim those better four for an extra 12-24% recruitment speed (or more). If you dip into your research point reservoir, so what? Buy books later and refill it. You can switch back after the war, but only if you survive. An extra 12-24% troops production in every city can't hurt your chances.
|
 |
Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118
|
Posted: 08 Mar 2013 at 16:06 |
Elmindra wrote:
The most efficient sov layout is only 2.3 sqrs away, therefore either you suck at city placement or you don't really understand the math involved if you are using sov structures greater than 3-4 sqrs away. |
A little of (a) and not much of (b). I gave 2.3 as a good number (same as yours), so my math must be OK in principle. Distant claims work well with Chanceries, and I use it opportunistically at mid-growth phase of a town, before all Sov-5 claims have matured.
So, if you have 3 x Chanceries, you get L1 at 30% of the original price (research and gold). That makes your claims good for 3 times the normal distance, which makes that distant '17 food' square a good L1 grab (chances are you have a 18-food square or better next to your town, right, and you chose not to bother with that smaller bonus just out of reach?)
As with most aspects of this game, there are niches that can be used in specific circumstances. When you have a tight 2-radius jam of food-producing L5 claims, then maybe the distant ones are dropped for a more efficient overall picture when 3 Chanceries don't make sense any more, and you need your clay for troop production or Geomancer bonuses.
Elmindra wrote:
... in all but one case I said yes. In the case in which I said no, I simply suggested a different location still within a 10sqr radius of my towns since I had planned to settle a new town at the previous location.
|
Reason and common sense strike again, to good effect :o)
|
|
|
 |
Elmindra
Forum Warrior
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 464
|
Posted: 08 Mar 2013 at 16:19 |
Even with a chancery, you are limited to 20 sov structures. Since you will be paying full price for levels past 1, it is still best to claim as close as possible to get the most out of your rp. In your above example, I would consider dipping into my reserves for the extra 6-9% per sqr for a bit. But you will lose time claiming that sov to level 2-3 while you already have closer sov at that level in which to utilize.
On a side note, whoever has 3 chanceries is a glutton for clay punishment :)
I have 1 lvl 20 in every town, and it gives me a few more levels of flexible sov and saves me some gold.
|
|
|
 |