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Topic ClosedEagles Eyrie surrenders to Harmless?

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Cilcain View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 22:58
Originally posted by The Politician The Politician wrote:


I find it funny that you and others keep stating that we (XckX) are bullies. Our reasons for war were justified and now we have a ceasefire with RE, simple as that. This maybe could be all said and done if people like you wouldn't keep adding flames to the fire without sufficient facts.



Ha!  Of course, threads like this are indeed just a giant bellows where protagonists huff and puff spewing hot air and smoke plumes until the original nub of the issue is obscured and forgotten (and probably irrelevant by then).  It makes entertaining reading for a while though....

Has anyone come up with a name for this war btw?  Were any insignificant Illy minerals harmed in the making of this fracas?

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DeathDealer89 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 23:18
I believe the name will be Endangered Eagles
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Kumomoto View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 23:20
I have some ideas-- Battle of the Batty Bird, The Rabid Raptor Rumble, Song of The Suicidal Sparrow?

;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 23:27
Originally posted by Cilcain Cilcain wrote:

Originally posted by The Politician The Politician wrote:


I find it funny that you and others keep stating that we (XckX) are bullies. Our reasons for war were justified and now we have a ceasefire with RE, simple as that. This maybe could be all said and done if people like you wouldn't keep adding flames to the fire without sufficient facts.



Ha!  Of course, threads like this are indeed just a giant bellows where protagonists huff and puff spewing hot air and smoke plumes until the original nub of the issue is obscured and forgotten (and probably irrelevant by then).  It makes entertaining reading for a while though....

Has anyone come up with a name for this war btw?  Were any insignificant Illy minerals harmed in the making of this fracas?

Many consider this the Great Trove War after a several month "collect the dead and brace yourself" time frame. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 02:29
Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:

Many consider this the Great Trove War after a several month "collect the dead and brace yourself" time frame.


Trove War II?   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 02:34
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Originally posted by Darmon Darmon wrote:

Why are you all saying that EE wanted a war with H? if they only declared on TVM?


As stated above Hath said they would declare on one alliance to get "the rest of the coalition" involved.


Oh.  In that case, I guess declaring on H? might have been a waste if they just ended up fighting H? and no one else.  By that logic, sure.  I guess declaring on the smallest and weakest alliance that was on that side of the war is probably the best way to incite the others.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 03:06
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

You know full well that H? stands by its confeds when attacked and therefore this is obviously an attempt to take H? and allies out.

I'm a little confused on this point.  Hasn't H? said time and time again that their only permanent alliance is with Dlord?  And don't they also intentionally keep secret any other potential long-term allies?  

I'm not as old a player as many people around here, so maybe someone can offer some insight; but have H? always sided or been sided with by the same handful of alliances?  Should I just assume at some point that they're basically permanent confeds even if no one is willing to admit it?

I think I liked all this better when it was just H? trying to enforce the terms of EE's peace treaty, and not actively trying to re-form "the Coalition" in a very public fashion.  I have trouble understanding how the call to arms of all Coalition alliances solely against EE isn't a bit excessive.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 04:10
Originally posted by Deranzin Deranzin wrote:

Originally posted by Salararius Salararius wrote:

Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

Obviously Hath's word means nothing so don't paint H as hypocritical, we've tried very hard to keep the peace.

If H? is trying "very hard" to "keep the peace" then how come H? is at the center of every sizable conflict?
  • Why would an alliance that is so good at fighting wars, not want to be in wars?
  • Why would an alliance that wants to fight in wars, want to keep the peace?
  • How can an alliance that is so bad at keeping the peace, really expect anyone to believe that is what they want.
Seriously, these "he said"/"she said" posts are not believable given the above.



Since you are american a good answer for your first sophistry is this :
USA is the best military in the world BY FAR. Do its soldiers, leaders and citizens want to be in wars  .?. NO.  (unless they have no other choice) End of story for that one Tongue

[Edit:]
If you want historical examples as well, I can provide them too.
Spartans were the best military in their era. Did they want wars .?. No.
Romans were the best army in their era. Did they want endless wars .?. No. (Pax Romana Wink )
Napoleon was the most successful army in its era. Did they want endless wars .?. No.
etc etc etc
[/edit]

Your second sophistry stands on the false premise that H? wants wars. As I pointed out easily that is your own unfounded  assumption and noone should be held accountable for it, ergo noone needs to be answering something like that.

For your third one, it is so ridiculous that I wouldn't even venture to answer anything more than a couple of simple examples :

Neville Chamberlain turned out to be bad at keeping peace. Did it mean that he didn't want peace .?. NO
Greeks turned out to be bad at keeping money and their economy rolling. Did this mean that they wanted to go into a financial crisis .?. NO

etc etc etc ...

That list of examples on how wrong your thinking in this case can be endless actually ... where on earth did you find the notion that if someone eventually does not succeed in a task, this means that he actually wanted to fail .?. LOL


This is a game.  Comparing it to the real world is interesting.  I don't feel the parallel is accurate, but I'll play with the idea.

As do you, I will start with the USA.  The USA has been in a near constant state of war:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

So, do the citizen's of the USA "want" to be at war or can their luck really be that bad?  In the current time, most US citizen's do not want to be at war and most are never at war.  But, most US citizen's don't mind supporting war.  We elect leaders that devote a lot of our tax money to ensuring our soldiers are the best trained and equipped in the world.  The US army is currently an all volunteer force.  Do the volunteers "want" to be at war?  I read a lot.  In the last 4-6 months I've read the following books that provide some insight into the minds of people who join the military.  "All American Sniper", "Into the Fire", "Absurdistan" and "Unbroken".  I've read a lot more books stretching back decades by individuals who've fought (or participated) in wars.  The one clear text is that these people do indeed want to be in the middle of a war.  It's clear there is a pecking order in the military with those with the greatest interest in fighting gravitating to the jobs with the most fighting.  One overarching theme expressed in every military biography is that once a sane, intelligent person get's experience in war, he/she looses his desire to be at war.  So, although most American's do indeed "not want war" those individuals are not actually in wars.  But, those that do participate do want to be in war.  That is what they volunteer for.  It's not why they stay, that's a different discussion.  Those in charge (and those that vote for those in charge) want war for reasons that sadly parallel the reasons people in games give.  Saying that the president that orders troops to war doesn't want to do that is silly.  Of course he/she wants war, he/she is choosing war over other available (perhaps less desirable) options.  That individual may want war for "legitimate" reasons but to suggest that somehow they are "forced" to fight is silly.  The USA has never fought a strictly defensive war for it's survival.

You mention Pax Romana, let's look at that.  Pax Romana was a period of "relative peace" for Rome.  I'm no historian, but according to Wiki it lasted from 27 BC to 180 AD.  So, if you look at the wars fought by Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Rome#2nd_century_BC), you see that during those roughly 207 years Rome was at war someplace for 61 years.  That means Rome was at war 33% of the time presented as a shining example of how Rome "didn't want war".  This is a time when Rome held sway over nearly 100% of the accessible (to Roman technology) world and yet still managed to be "at war" 1 in every 3 years.  Again we see a nation depicted as "not wanting war" but even during it's most peaceful period, it's in a near constant state of war.  It's also a nation that moves from a levy (or draft) based defensive military to a volunteer (non-citizen) based offensive military.  A nation who's people "don't want war" but who do not mind actively supporting those that do want war (for whatever sociological-economic reasons).  Romans, like Americans, were perfectly happy "wanting war" as long as they were not personally fighting in the war.

Sparta went through the exact same transition.  From a levy/draft based state military to a "volunteer" or non-citizen based military.  Probably for similar reasons.  Populations that prove good at fighting realize that although they personally do not want to fight, fighting is the reason they are secure.  From the examples you present, those population continue to support the subset that desire conflict as well as the active necessity to "push the conflict" further from home with some sort of sociological-economic "volunteer" force.  I.E.  They want war.

Of course the people in all the nations listed "want war".  That is why the populations of those nations initially fight wars in large numbers and that is why those populations continue to support war with their wealth and political support as they grow secure.  Not wanting to fight in war in RL and not "wanting war" are two separate and distinct concepts.  In today's world of drones, robot conflict, suicide bombers and other standoff weapons it easier and easier for any population to "support" war because so few actually participate in the actual war.  Yes, nations that are good at war choose (or "want") war because winning wars is one tool "they feel" helps keeps them secure.

Martin Luther King did not want violent conflict (war).  Nelson Mandela did not want violent conflict.  Mahatma Gandhi did not like violent conflict.  etc...  Now, how often did those individuals or the movements they inspired actively inflict violence on others?  There are real world examples of populations that both say they do not like violent conflict and prove it by going out and sucking at violent conflict.  People supporting every one of those causes died.  People in every one of those causes lost every "battle".  That is what people look like that don't want war.  There are probably a lot more examples throughout history but most people that do not want war do not last long.

These last examples of peoples that actually "do not want war" are not H?

BTW, H? is now getting embroiled in it's 3rd world war.  If Neville Chamberlian had been involved in the crisis moment leading to 3 world wars, yes, I'd question if he really wanted peace.  You would not?  The Greeks are a fascinating example.  Like H? and it's wars, the Greeks have been involved in a series of financial crisis.  I believe, that somewhat based on the decisions the Greeks have made and are making, they are choosing to be in a financial crisis.  If that isn't what the Greeks want, then they should make different choices.  Like the Greeks, if H? doesn't want war, it should make different choices.

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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 04:37
"if H? doesn't want war, it should make different choices"

qft

by someone who does not want war and therefore chooses not to be involved in H?s game(s).

Leave the dogs to their vomit, find something better to do with your lives.

Said with love to all my friends in Illy.


Edited by Rill - 30 Oct 2013 at 04:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 05:22
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

"if H? doesn't want war, it should make different choices"

qft

by someone who does not want war and therefore chooses not to be involved in H?s game(s).

Leave the dogs to their vomit, find something better to do with your lives.

Said with love to all my friends in Illy.
Are you still here???   You have been obsolete for so long, isn't your cheese getting moldy?

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