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dunnoob View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Division skills
    Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 22:46
Originally posted by Innoble Innoble wrote:

many players "feel" like taking combat bonuses is like cheating. Speedbuilding somehow "feels" less like cheating because you are just making up for starting to play later than some vets. 
Indeed, and for new players I think that buying a 20% food bonus in a final effort to get ten towns is okay, if all other attempts to grab one of the legendary 7 food squares in reach of a 20 food dolmen from older players fail.

It didn't occur to me to suggest a removal or reduction of the military prestige options, because buying prestige is how we can sponsor development plus infrastructure.  And while folks improved the commander upgrades page in the wiki today I had the idea to tackle two potential problems (prestige effect in tournament battles + limited number of commander skills) with one fix. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 21:45
I personally don't think using any prestige bonus is cheating.  Maybe one uses a defense bonus instead of a prestige enhancement to food production.  The prestige enhancement to food production is actually much more powerful than the defense bonus, since it allows for more population and/or a higher tax rate.  Same with bonus to rp.

I don't use prestige (the game is more fun for me without it), but I also am unconcerned about competing with those who do.  One can build a bigger city faster using prestige, and amass a bigger army, but one can't build an alliance faster with it, nor create more confeds who will fight at one's side.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 20:25
You're right, 130/120 is closer to 1 than 120/110. But then, are you saying the prestige advantage is too great? If so, then why don't you suggest the percentage bonus for prestige be made smaller? That would accomplish the same without affecting other parts of the game.

Personally I don't feel this particular prestige bonus has to exist at all, but even though the devs decided that it does, I still don't worry about it, because it seems too weak to spend prestige on. 

Another thing is that many players "feel" like taking combat bonuses is like cheating. Speedbuilding somehow "feels" less like cheating because you are just making up for starting to play later than some vets. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 20:10
Originally posted by Innoble Innoble wrote:

My highest is level 107.
Thanks for sharing that info.  So if the devs ever intend to introduce new divisional skill levels soon™ will be soon enough for everybody including you.

Yes, this suggestion does not directly depend on the possible prestige bonus.  Simplified, in a tournament over four weeks a player with ten towns could buy a bonus of 10% for all divisional skills with 4*8*4*10=1280P.  That's a maximal strength of 120% with prestige vs. 110% without prestige in ordinary divisional skills, ignoring the extra 5% for one special skill depending on the commander unit type.

With ten additional levels it would be 130% vs. 120%, a relatively smaller advantage, because 130/120 is slightly less than 120/110.  Or if you look only at the divisional bonus, 30/20=1.5 is less than 20/10=2.Big smile


Edited by dunnoob - 10 Jun 2012 at 20:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 19:40
how much exp is needed for 107 lvl?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 19:30
Oh and to answer your question: There isn't anyone out there with more xp than my commanders. My highest is level 107. Of course it is possible someone out there focused more on one commander and made it say... to level 110 or so, but not much higher for sure. It is still an exponential curve.

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< style="border-color: rgb207, 169, 107; padding: 5px; ">Self Bonuses
Skill RequiredDescriptionLvlValueNext LvlAction
HeroismAttack10/102257Max
Avoid ChargeDefence vs Cavalry10/101281Max
Break Spear WallDefence vs Spears10/10915Max
CoverDefence vs Ranged10/10976Max
Sword MasteryDefence vs Infantry10/101220Max
VitalityMax Health3/10250300
Accelerated HealingHealth Regeneration5/1110 p/h12 p/h
Defy DeathChance to Survive Combat10/1010Max
Uncanny SenseChance to Escape Assasins5/1056
< style="border-color: rgb207, 169, 107; padding: 5px; ">Division Bonuses
Skill RequiredDescriptionLvlValueNext LvlAction
ChargeCavalry Unit Attack10/1010%Max
Close Quarter PenetrationSpear Unit Attack0/100%1%
Concentrated FireRanged Unit Attack0/100%1%
BloodlustInfantry Unit Attack0/100%1%
Square FormationUnit Defence vs Cavalry15/1515%Max
Phalanx FormationUnit Defence vs Spears0/100%1%
Tortoise FormationUnit Defence vs Ranged0/100%1%
Interlocked ShieldsUnit Defence vs Infantry0/100%1%
Forced MarchUnit Movement Speed10/1050%Max
Military LogisticsUnit Carrying Capacity0/100%+5%
Force Of WillUnit Magic Resistance0/100%+5%
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 19:25
I don't understand why you are comparing the commander bonuses to prestige bonuses. That's like comparing apples to oranges. The two are not related. 

There are three separate questions that you should pose.

The first is: Is a commander level worth it to spend on a division bonus. The answer to that is yes, because most people do. People like increasing offense however possible. 

The second is: Is it worth it to spend 4 prestige to increase one type of offense for one town for one week. Personally I think it isn't. Not many do it. I certainly don't and I have spent quite a bit of prestige (only on speedbuilding, which is the best way to spend it)

The third is: Should the division bonuses per unit have more than 10 levels (and I repeat: This is completely unrelated to prestige)? I don't know personally. There's plenty of other options to spend skillpoints. I think you can get to level 200 or so before you run out of options. 

Adding more levels to the division bonus doesn't really change anything about the prestige bonus. Having the prestige bonus will still be 10% better than not having the prestige bonus... so I don't see the point. 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2012 at 19:05
At the moment coiners and prestige collectors can buy 2*4=8 weekly divisional bonusses (sp?) of 10% for attack of or defense against the four unit types (spear, ranged, infantry, and cavalry).  Combined with the ten levels in seven of eight divisional skills that can yield a 20% bonus vs. the 10% bonus of players using their daily prestige for other purposes.  In the special skill (one of eight) with 15 levels it yields 25% vs. 15%.  

This appears to be a rather large prestige effect for skilled commanders.  How about adding ten new levels to the division bonus?  The total number of skill levels is now 120+7*10+1*15=205, where 120 corresponds to the twelve other skills with ten levels.  With ten new divisional levels it would be 120+7*20+1*25=285, and the worst prestige effects would be limited to 30% vs. 20% for an ordinary divisional bonus, or 35% vs. 25% for the special skill matching the commander unit type.

Arguably 30 of the 205 existing skill levels are irrelevant:  If a given commander type never leads different unit types into an attack, at most 175=205-30 skill levels make sense.  It wouldn't surprise me, if some harmless commanders are already at levels near 175, and could use additional divisional skill levels.


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